Rockers ( oh its WORSE) assembly.

[Runner]

I would  like to know if that retainer and lock assembly should have failed like that just because the rocker roller pin came out?
Shouldnt the valve locks and retainers done their job?

Just wanting some input here as to the strength of those parts of the stealth heads.

what happens is the rocker fails then it pushes down on the retainer and that lets the keepers fall out, the the valve falls down, piston hits the valve head and breaks it off.   its most likly all the rockers fault, however if the the cam is agressive and the springs arent up to the task  valve float can kill the the valve train parts.    imo off shore rockers are a no no.      it will be interesting to see what 440 source does.         what rpm did the rocker fail at?

[General_01]

Sorry to see that mally. I hope 440Source does what they should for you.

[ryan053]

Have you talked to 440 source yet?  I would like to hear how they plan on handling this before i order my parts from them.

[73chgrSE]

Offshore? Where is this stuff made?

[Rob R]

I'm not going to get into what I think about $200.00 rocker arms but the one thing I will say is...it would be a good idea to pull that piston and rod out to make sure the top ring is not pinched..!!judging by where the hits are on top of the piston the ring land is surly collapsed a bit up at the 12:00 position...better to be safe that sorry

[Musicman]

Anyone else using these rockers here? Any other issues we haven't heard of yet? This is the first incident that "I have heard of personally" with these assemblies, here or on any other forum. Obviously, there must be other guys out there using them. Just looking for input from other users.
I know this sort of thing can and "has" happened regardless of manufacture... but this issue of twice in a row in such a short time is really odd. Sounds like a material design defect... that being the case, we should be hearing more from other users.

Anyone?

[Challenger340]

I'd like to get some more info here, before I condemn the Rocker Arms as "defective".

"2 in a row" could be indicative of another underlying problem, not just or only a Rocker defect.

What Cam ? SOLID, ROLLER, HYDRAULIC, Lift & Duration ?

What RPM have you been running ?

Are the springs the stock units supplied by 440source ?

What Pistons are those ?  I can't "see" any Valve reliefs in the photos ?  ,    and how much Piston to Valve Clrc.  ?

Very Curious,  Bob out.

[Musicman]

Bob

Good questions... I think everyone has asked themselves those same questions and maybe a few more... I know I have... especially with the 2 in a row scenario...  Pistons, Cam, Rods... but I'm not one for jumping to conclusions one way or another without solid evidence. We are still waiting for an update from mally69. Until more is learned, I will give him the benefit of the doubt, just as I have 440source. If 440source is at fault, then they need to step up and do the right thing... If it turns out that mally69 had mismatched components then he needs to roger up to his mistake, and put out this fire before it spreads any further... that would only be fair.

In the mean time... 

[mally69]

Ok, I just got home from work and read over all of this. I did contact 440 source and sent them my pics of what had happened.  The first time this happed is when I had my 906' heads bolted on with the matched springs to my cam. The only thing it did was make a small rapping noise and didnt hurt anything. Called 440 source and they sent me another for free as a replacement. My cam has a .501 lift 292 dur. hydralic cam. so its not real aggressive. Second When I installed those rockers on both heads I MADE CERTAIN that the roller was centered perfectly on the valve  and NOT to far forward or backward or to either side IT WAS perfectly centered on both heads. I DID NOT mix and match parts..... Now, this time I have about 15 miles on these new heads, and the roller broke at about 3500 rpm  cruising down the road. What happend is this... The pin that holds the roller snapped exactly like the first one and the rocker pushed on the retainer which DID release the locks and sent the valve falling into the cylinder.  Also, the valve locks are not broke. I have them. I found the laying under the valve cover. My pistons are speedpro 2295's I have good piston to valve clearance so I know thats not an issue, And I know That I didnt have coil bind becuase those springs are good for 600 lift cams.

PLEASE PEOPLE DO NOT BASH 440 SOURCE, THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO .................. They DO NOT sell junk Everything has been perfect that I have bought from them.

[Musicman]

Thanks for the update mally69 

Hopefully, that should clear up some of the unspoken questions that have been lurking out there. 
I guess now we just wait and see...

Good of you to stand up for the folks at 440source too by the way... well done... after all, sh** can happen!

Mike

[mally69]

Thanks for the update mally69 

Hopefully, that should clear up some of the unspoken questions that have been lurking out there. 
I guess now we just wait and see...

Good of you to stand up for the folks at 440source too by the way... well done... after all, sh** can happen!

Mike

Thanks Musicman,
I will stand up for them all the way simply becuase they do sell good stuff and have always treated me well.

[Challenger340]

mally69, Thanks for the update,
so ,
if I understand correctly, those are the Valve springs that came with the 440source heads, or were they changed ?

mally, any chance of a photo of outer sides of those Valve Locks ? Are they "shiney" on the outside ?
or
The Valve head where it broke of the Valve Stem ?

Just really curious,

Thx, Bob out.

[mally69]

mally69, Thanks for the update,
so ,
if I understand correctly, those are the Valve springs that came with the 440source heads, or were they changed ?

mally, any chance of a photo of outer sides of those Valve Locks ? Are they "shiney" on the outside ?
or
The Valve head where it broke of the Valve Stem ?

Just really curious,

Thx, Bob out.

Yes they are the springs that came on the stealth heads. But the first time it happend on the 906's I had the matching comp springs.  I will take pics tomarrow of the valve head and the valve stem where they separated. And i will take a pic of the locks, inside and outer side.

[Idahogrumpbee]

I would almost bet that your spring retainer was hitting the top of the guide at the 3500 rpm. What kind of oil pressure were you running at 3500 rpm? I would guess that maybe the lifter plunger was at the top of its bore at that rpm and there was not quite enough clearance. I had a similar problem on my 440, just broke adjusters though. Take a real close look at the clearance between the guide and retainer under full lift. Disassemble and inspect the retainers, locks and valve stem grooves for evidence of this. Mine stressed the lock grooves in my brand new valves, very noticeable.   Good luck,   Grumpy

[Challenger340]

That would be great mally !

It's just for my own info.
Kinda like the which came first, the "chicken or the egg".  I Can't really 'see" any of the fracturers from the other pictures, and I'm wondering about the trunions / trunion material used, as well as the Valves.

Anytime I've seen the knocked the Head off a 1 piece Stainless Valve, Broke trunions, etc., it was usually trace-able back to a Valve "bounce" condition, or the frequency created by the Spring Slew rate when not controlled,

Valve Bounce = Head Knocked off
BUT,
This seems different, especially with THOSE springs on THAT mushy a bumpstick ? (NOT slagging your Cam, no offense intended, LOL !)

Really weird. I'm starting to wonder 'bout that Chinese Steel Carbon Content ?

Thanks mally

Bob out.

[mally69]

That would be great mally !

It's just for my own info.
Kinda like the which came first, the "chicken or the egg".  I Can't really 'see" any of the fracturers from the other pictures, and I'm wondering about the trunions / trunion material used, as well as the Valves.

Anytime I've seen the knocked the Head off a 1 piece Stainless Valve, Broke trunions, etc., it was usually trace-able back to a Valve "bounce" condition, or the frequency created by the Spring Slew rate when not controlled,

Valve Bounce = Head Knocked off
BUT,
This seems different, especially with THOSE springs on THAT mushy a bumpstick ? (NOT slagging your Cam, no offense intended, LOL !)

Really weird. I'm starting to wonder 'bout that Chinese Steel Carbon Content ?

Thanks mally

Bob out.

Im not sure I understand you here, Now what is it that you are wanting pics of, ill take them in a few min??

[mally69]

More pics..............................................................................................

[mally69]

more.....

[mally69]

 Also, someone asked about the retainers and their coloration, They are for the most part still the blackend look with a small amount of shinyness to them I could not get a clear pic of them they are to small.

[mally69]

Well, Kim from 440source called.  Good news, they told me after they reveiwed my pics that they decided to send me a replacement rocker arm and a new gasket kit including the head gaskets, and a NEW HEAD..     They took care of this situation, so they definalty will see me again for buisness.     

[RECHRGD]

I'm glad they are trying to make it good for you.  You're not going to still use those rockers, I hope.!?!?   Bob

[mally69]

Im probably not going to use the rockers. But mancini has ductile iron adjustables and regular stamped heavy duty ones. Can you guys hook me up with a link to some good rockers ( not aluminum ones )  I dont know what to get such as push rods and rockers, and adjusters to fit with the pushrods..

[RECHRGD]

I'm using the Crane Gold (alum) in my build.  I'm sure Ron can chime in here and lead you in the right direction.    Bob

[firefighter3931]

Mally,

The crane golds are really descent rockers when used in the right application (NO roller cam spring pressures) and your valvetrain is allready set up for an adjustable rocker arm at this point. The Comp 501 is a slow (Ramp) lazy grind so now is the time to make the move to a better rocker arm. The Crane 1.6 Gold rockers is what i would use for increased valve action and more high lift area with that cam profile.

In a nutshell, swapping to the 1.6's would be like swapping in a better cam and upgrading the rocker arms at the same time. It's time to make something positive out of this negative situation. 



Ron

[Musicman]

Well, Kim from 440source called.  Good news, they told me after they reveiwed my pics that they decided to send me a replacement rocker arm and a new gasket kit including the head gaskets, and a NEW HEAD..     They took care of this situation, so they definalty will see me again for buisness.     

That's good news mally69...  glad to hear it... and once again, thanks for keeping us posted 

Mike