CASE FOR TWO 68 CHARGER 500 PILOT/TEST CARS

[69_500]

Ah so the blue car is supposedly the one that was stolen off of the dealership lot, and later recovered minus the engine right? And was then sold to Cotton Owens I though? And then was used as a mock car to mount the nose cones on at Creative Industries? Same car? If so I thought that car was R4 red, with the cloth insert seats, power windows, and a white tail stripe. And that it was restored by a gentleman who lives not too far from where Cotton Owens shop is.

[Aero426]

Ah so the blue car is supposedly the one that was stolen off of the dealership lot, and later recovered minus the engine right? And was then sold to Cotton Owens I though? And then was used as a mock car to mount the nose cones on at Creative Industries? Same car? If so I thought that car was R4 red, with the cloth insert seats, power windows, and a white tail stripe. And that it was restored by a gentleman who lives not too far from where Cotton Owens shop is.

The one that was a theft recovery was a press PR car.  It was thought to have been sent to Nichels.  Too much missing to put back on the street.  Again, as a story, it's one of those legends floating around out there.

[Fitz73Chrgr]

Does this 68 prototype 500 have a 68 tailpanel or a 69?

[Ghoste]

69.

[nascarxx29]

I have magazine where the press got loaned to them a hemi 500.It got stolen and found stripped in Watts CA .And the car was at Nichels and returned and used for the #88 daytona

[pettybird]

did chrysler have a problem with that?

the 440+6 road runner test car (the ronnie sox vs. the journalist ad car) had its manifold and carb setup stolen a day or two before the test runs...  the journalist had it at a motel and some guys came along in the night and took it...  that was retold in hot rod a couple years back by the author. 


funny how I remember so vividly that Jerry roped off his car, put mirrors underneath it, etc WAY back when.  like, no one else did. 

[Moparmatty]

Does this 68 prototype 500 have a 68 tailpanel or a 69?

It has a '68 tail light panel.

[nascarxx29]

.Originally the car was a (68 charger).Said by Frank Wylie retired director of public relations for dodge division.He states we loaned that car to a magazine in los angeles for testing.It was stolen striipped of everything.and the car was found in the Watts section of LA.That car was taken back to Nichels engineering in Highland IN and converted into what is known as the prototype dodge daytona .The other car that 69 500 mentioned was the cotton owens car that was first to be fitted with the wingcar body parts

[XS29J8]

One car that comes to mind was a Hemi Charger 500 press car that was stolen and recovered stripped in LA.  I thought that was a blue car.   That one allegedly was sent to Nichels to be converted to a stock car.

Here's the deal as I see it.  Call it what you want - but the message board community is kind of a new breed of car club unto itself whether we call it that or not.   With a new group of enthusiasts looking at these cars, topics are coming back to the surface that have pretty much been put to bed a long time ago.      There are a number of threads on this and other boards questioning history and suggesting that there is some new material out there - and perhaps that history needs to be rewritten.   That's not a slam on anyone who brought up the topics - but these things have been discussed before, and before forty years went by.    It's easy to take what one guy says while reminiscing and run with it.   The question is, when someone tells you of a new revelation, will anyone else who was there (and not conveniently dead) confirm the story?

Not sure where you're coming from Doug, I have never heard any one put this discussion to rest.....I have found another Chrysler employee who Milt and Jerry both know with some info I didn't know and you didn't know. He is still alive?.......I also thought Jerry basically bought the Charger 500 new or was the first owner.

I appreciate all the info you and Danny and Geno and Dave have at your fingertips, but we still need an open mind and the ability to keep investigating and documenting  or History will be changed after we are gone. You guys are awesome with your quick answers and ability to call a spade a spade, but don't throw the hobbyist out with the " these things were put to bed a long time ago " answers.

I was hoping to see an answer to why the 68 500 has white paint in the fenderwell area also, did Jerry do this for show purposes? I too remember the mirrors under the car in magazines and such. I had thought the original maroon charger and the white charger may have both been wrecked and both combined to build one car. Now here is a hypothisis for you to ponder...........this is not a statement of fact just an idea of why the white paint on Jerry's 500 and quickie repaint by Chrysler for picture purposes?


Thanks for all the great info!

Steve

[Aero426]

Steve, what I am suggesting is that we take the claim of a second prototype 1968 Charger 500 with a grain of salt.  I guess it's possible there was another 500 at the PG for some reason, but the same can be said for lots of cars.     

I certainly don't know it all,  but when I say "put to bed", Jerry's 500 was discussed going back into the early 80's when the car was out and about.   There has never been any discussion of a second car.    I realize you personally heard it come out of the guys mouth.

When you are fortunate enough to meet people who were there,  be careful not to fall into the trap of, "The older I get, the faster I was".   I've seen myself do it.   A couple sentences are all it takes to really spice up an old war story. 

As to the white paint, the answer I got via email was not clear.  I always thought it was for show purposes, but I don't want to say anything incorrect.   I will make another pass at it. 

[69_500]

Okay so now I am totally lost. The car that was stolen was supposedly a PR car? How many PR 500's were there then? 1 4 speed car which is a known car right? 1 AT car which is also a known car? The only other really early car I know of is the one that was converted to run on Propane, and was raced under the name Propane X. All 3 of these cars were R4 red, cloth insert seats, power windows, with white tail stripe. All identical other than 1 of them being an AT. Now the 4th car that fits this mold is the one that went to Cotton Owens after being stolen, and stripped of its engine, and was later used at Creative to test fit the nose cones. I think that one was a PR car as it is identically equiped as the other 3 I just listed. Or was there a blue car in there somewhere when all of the rest of them were R4 red?

[XS29J8]

Here is a link to the Dodge product information bulletin ......

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/_1968-Dodge-PIB-01.shtml?load_img=19

[odcics2]

We know that bulletin was superseded later in the year... 

As far as how many cars were considered "Press Cars" and loaned out for whatever reason, is there an actual, confirmed number??     

In the Hot Rod test, they had 3 cars, one of which was stolen, stripped, recovered and hauled to Nichels Engineering for conversion into a Charger 500 race car.
It was eventually updated to the "88" Daytona.   This is what PR chief Frank Wylie has stated in interviews from the 1980s and 1990s.     

One would think there were more than 3 cars loaned out, considering all the magazines doing coverage on the Charger 500.   

[Ghoste]

I still believe there was only a single prototype.  That document shows an intent to do something but until there is documentation to prove they actually made a second I have to remain on that side of the discussion.

[1970Moparmann]

Here is a link to the Dodge product information bulletin ......

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/_1968-Dodge-PIB-01.shtml?load_img=19

Very interesting...

[Ghoste]

Beyond that document though, what do we have?  Really have?  There are a number of documents from inside Chrysler indicating a plan to do something and then it never coming to pass.

[XS29J8]

Beyond that document though, what do we have?  Really have?  There are a number of documents from inside Chrysler indicating a plan to do something and then it never coming to pass.

Well, we do have a document many doubted existed.....I do believe the project was kicked down the road to the beginning run of 69 Chargers, but the project did materialize. Once again I have a hard time believing no 1968 4spd HEMI Chargers were ordered after June 1st 1968. I do believe the intent was for all 500s to be HEMI 4 spds and the goal was unatainable............

[Ghoste]

I think I agree with all of that too.

[Magnumcharger]

Does this 68 prototype 500 have a 68 tailpanel or a 69?

It has a '68 tail light panel.

[nascarxx29]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=4205.0

[Ghoste]

Which further confirms, no 68 tail panel.

[nascarxx29]

No signs of a 68 tail Panel .Vin is XS & 9 for the 69 year.Begining vin seq #360.    What I find interesting if the car started as a 69 .where the 69 reflectors openings reworked.or omitted in the panel stamping .And round 68 Marker light easier just requiring a round hole.And the color stated in magazines as a plum color a RR1 a 1968 .Burgundy metallic paint code  .It was originally burgundy and later was painted red for color photos

[Ghoste]

I don't think it started as a 69.

[69Charger500]

I would expect there was more than one prototype built...

I've managed Chrysler's prototype build programs for many years, and design verification testing typically requires multiple tests being performed concurrently to speed up development time.

Cars are relatively cheap to build, time is precious, so we build as many cars as it takes to complete all the testing in a given time frame.

They would have likely just been scrapped; I scrap over 2000 prototypes a year on average these days...

The Jerry Service car is a bit of an anomoly, because prototypes are not sold to the public due to lack of certification and non-production-level parts...  However, things were a little different back then, so exceptions were possible, just unlikely...

[Aero426]

Which further confirms, no 68 tail panel.

I always thought that particular car was born with a '68 tail panel, and updated with the '69 part during the conversion to a 500.