Ethanol Blend

[Blown70]

Well if you do truely set up a motor run on alcohol you can run much higher static compression.  At least speaking about this to my good friend..... who knows more than I.  He will be helping with the Supercharger as he has worked with alcohol and superchargers as long as I have been alive.

[suntech]

Of cause yes, you CAN run higher CR, but you don´t NEED to, to see a gain, if jetted and timed right. (E 85) The possibility to go higher on CR gives an opening for extra gain, but the downside is that you are in trouble if the gas station don´t have it, when you pull over for gas, on a roadtrip!!

[Blown70]

Of cause yes, you CAN run higher CR, but you don´t NEED to, to see a gain, if jetted and timed right. (E 85) The possibility to go higher on CR gives an opening for extra gain, but the downside is that you are in trouble if the gas station don´t have it, when you pull over for gas, on a roadtrip!!

Yes I do agree, just stating for those who will strictly run it.

[firefighter3931]

Ethanol, or any other commonly available alcohol such as methanol and isopropyl, will burn somewhat cooler in a carbureted engine. An earlier post mentioned less heat (BTU) output from a given amount. The tech term is latent heat capacity. An engine converts fuel to heat and the higher heat capacity the fuel has, to a point, the more power it produces from a given amount of fuel. Conversely, the lower capacity will produce less heat. So, it will take  more low capacity fuel to do the same amount of work that a higher one will. Thats why fuel mileage drops when 10% alcohol is added. The rough, sort of ballpark figure is for every 1% alcohol, mileage drops by approx the same %.  If your car got 30mpg on real gas, expect 27-28 on  10% alcohol blend.  However, remember that for years Indy cars have used very high compression engines that were run on alcohol.  Because it has a lower heat capacity, it also produces a  higher octane rating. Octane rating means simply resistance to detonation. A higher cap. fuel detonates easier than a lower one. Old gasoline had antiknock (detonation) additives such as benzene, tetraethyl lead, and methyl tertiary butyl ether , mercifully shortened to MTBE. Now we use ethyl alcohol instead.  The higher the octane rating on the pump, the more alcohol it has.  Again, the down side it that it takes more fuel to go a given distance compared to old time gas.
Now, the hot setup would be to richen up the carb jets, up your compression and add a blower.  Won't get good mileage but it will kick A..
And who cares so much about mileage in our restored Mopars?? As long as it goes F A S T !!!

That's an excellent writeup Dave....thanks for taking the time to type it out ! 



Ron

[Highbanked Hauler]

I have heard your midwest  sprint cars and world of outlaws race cars run pure ethanol and a huge carburetor to get enough fuel into the motor 

[daves68]

Firefighter: Thanks, just sharing for the benefit of everyone. I should have also added that care must be taken to use alcohol resistant fuel system parts. The wrong kind have a way of disappearing or changing into a melted lump. Tip: The Coast Guard mandated way back in the 1980's that marine fuel systems must have alcohol resistant fuel lines. The local marine supply store has a variety of hose and tubing that will work in your car. I always use marine fuel line on my vehicles for that reason.
Highbank: Yes they do but they burn methanol, not ethanol. Both alcohols but quite different. Methanol is more corrosive to engine parts, especially galvanized gas tanks. Eats the zinc plate right off and allows rust to form.
Dave

[MNMopar]

  Ethanol is alcohol.... Alcohol is what they burn in Funny Cars... Funny cars go 300+ mph. So why would this be bad for a car engine?

[Blown70]

Ethanol is alcohol.... Alcohol is what they burn in Funny Cars... Funny cars go 300+ mph. So why would this be bad for a car engine?

UHHHH that would be only 10 to 15% Alcohol.... the REST IS NITRO METHANE... if you are speaking of TOP FUEL and FUNNY CARS?

[Purple440]

my73Charger, is that picture from BIR?  That Charger looks familiar.

[Chatt69chgr]

I wonder what happens to Carter mechanical fuel pumps when you run ethanol through them?  It's good to know that ethanol is not so bad on zinc plated parts, ie, fuel tanks.  I am using stainless steel lines.  Will probably use the marine rubber fuel lines as suggested.  But as I recall, the fuel pump has a rubber diaphram in it.  I may need to figure out who owns Carter and give them a call on this.  And then there is the rubber part in the float bowl.  Need to find out about it too.  Not sure what we could do about it but maybe these folks will offer a alcohol resistant replacement part if the originals are going to be eaten up. 

[my73charger]

my73Charger, is that picture from BIR?  That Charger looks familiar.

Yes, that is me racing at Brainerd last year at Muscle Car Shootout.

[Todd Wilson]

Paul G and Doug pretty much summed up the info on ethanol.   I have run 10% ethanol in the Mopars for the last few years now. I got 1 318 that doesnt care, 1 318 that doesnt like it and a 360 that runs fine on it with a computer change. I run it in my 74 Dodge truck with a 440. The 440 is not the same engine is was running straight 91. I have got it to tolerate it but it still puts up a fit in the hot summer with the ping. You just retard your timing until it runs ok. Power will be down. If you have an original fuel system you may find the ethanol will clean it out. Clogging fuel filters and carb bowls. It can over time eat up rubber but I havent found this to be a problem yet. I suspect cars that sit for long periods of time may have more trouble. It also evaporates out of the carb faster so if your car sits for a few weeks it may be a bear to start. E85 is hard to find in some locations. Some new cars are designed to run on E85. Holley had an E85 carb to buy to retrofit onto a muscle car. You will need to plan to set a car up for E85. Possible build an engine around the E85 fuel use. Brand new clean fuel system and lines.

I think these cars can be adjusted to run on 10% -20%ethanol fuels but they wont be the same cars they were on the high octane gasoline.

Your MPG will be lower!!!

Government mandated that ethanol be used in all gas. The ethanol boom has been on, building plants and so forth but in recent months the big guns like Cargil and others have bailed out of plans to build plants. Its not cost effective to produce ethanol. Sometimes it takes more energy to make it then it produces with the energy costs at all levels going thru the roof. The cost of corn is thru the roof and its hurting the food production costs. The usually use natural gas to heat the stuff up. Costs of the Natural gas is more then the return on the ethanol. They raise the price of the ethanol and then suddenly its not helping lower our gasoline prices. IN the mean time if a food product uses a corn product its costs go up. Corn Syrup in pop to corn on the cob. Dont forget your chickens,pigs and cows eat corn so your meat costs go up! Costs more to feed them milk cows to produce cow juice for your Lucky Charms.


All this was to keep the tree huggers happy and keep the rest of us happy by cutting our dependance on foreign oil! The camel jockeys are selling 10% less fuel because of the ethanol!  We're all getting it broke off in us at the pump and at the grocery store now!


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

One other thing.......right now they dont have to tell you at the pump its 10% ethanol blend. Some of you may be running it already and dont know it or have had unexplained power loss or run like crap syndrome. It could be the fuel you are getting.



Todd

[suntech]

Might be the case that the ethanolblends in the US has compensated, in a way that there ic actually no octane increase, over the regular stuff, and then ofcause some of the performance benefits will be gone. 
With E 85 it is a complete different story! You can run more agressive timing (and compression ratio) and have a power increase!!
You will ofcause need a fuel system that can deal with ethanol, both material that is resistant, and capable of handeling the increased flow that will be required. (app 30%).

[Purple440]

my73Charger, is that picture from BIR?  That Charger looks familiar.

Yes, that is me racing at Brainerd last year at Muscle Car Shootout.

Nice.  I've enjoyed watching you and all the other guys race up there for the last three years.  That muscle car show is a blast.  Hope to see you there this year!  My dad and I usually troll the area near the track so if I see your car I'll stop by and say hi and probably ask you a question or two.

- Doug

[my73charger]

Thanks Doug.  I look forward to talking to you.


Tim