Odd rust removal

[joesykora]

   I had a question about rust removal and this is supposed to work for any metal part. A couple of weeks ago I was watching one of the shows on spike and they had this rust removal recipe of sorts it goes like this

1. Use a bucket or container big enough to put your part in, fill it with water

2. place part in with a cup or so of baking soda.

3. then place a stainless steel rod in the container

4. connect a battery charger with the positive side on the steel rod and the negative on the part.

5. wait 48 hours or so and then turn off the battery charger and remove the part

When you remove the part it is supposed to be rust free.

Has anyone heard of this or ever done it and does it work?

[hemi-hampton]

I've heard of this. But I always figured why wait 48 hours when I could sandblast the same part in less then 5 minutes. LEON.

[joesykora]

I was figuring the same thing but was not sure if it actually worked

[Mopar440+6]

Its washing soda not baking soda. Two different chemicals. Personally, I've never done it but a couple of the guys from the car club claim to have used it and said it works extremely well...

[LeeBoy]

I saved this from somewhere, can't remember now.

Rust Removal using Electrolysis. I came into an inexpensive and easy way to clean rust and grease, and, in some cases, paint, from your rusty cast iron and sheet metal parts. Taking advantage of common household cleaning products, items many of us have laying around the garage, kitchen or laundry room, and some science, you can clean parts from a single bolt up to an entire trailer frame through a process known as "electrolysis".

What you need:
A non-conducting container - a large plastic bucket works really well.
Battery charger - big is better, however even one able to produce 6 to 10 amps should do.Sacrificial electrodes. Concrete reinforcing rod works well (rebar) (DO NOT use stainless steel it gives off toxic fumes) cut into lengths about 4" taller than your bucket or container. Do not use stainless steel! The results are a health hazard and illegal (more on that later)
Arm and Hammer LAUNDRY soda, also called washing soda. (see below for details)
Wire and/or cables for connecting electrodes together.
Water.
Small lengths of small chain (used to suspend the rusty parts in solution) or some other means to suspend the part to clean into the solution.
The Setup:
mix a solution of 5 gallons water to 1/3 to 1/2 cup laundry soda. Mix well so all soda is dissolved. Do not try to use other salts. You won't get better results and dangerous effects may occur. Caustic soda, for example, is far too corrosive. Solutions of ordinary table salt can generate chlorine gas (toxic) at the positive electrode (anode).

Clean the electrodes so they aren't too rusty - especially at the top ends - they need to make good electrical contact with your wire or cable AND with the water. I take mine to a wire wheel and give them just a real quick going over. Place electrodes in bucket around sides, so the clean, rust free ends stick up above the bucket. Use clamps or some means to hold them in place around the perimeter of the inside of the bucket or container so that they cannot move freely or fall into center of bucket. The electrodes must not touch the part(s) to be cleaned, which will be suspended in center of bucket. I use small C clamps. Whatever you use, it shouldn't be copper, and will get a bit messy if it gets into your cleaning solution.
Tie the electrodes together with wire or cables. I use copper wire twisted around the top ends, and have used old jumper cables. All electrodes need to be tied together "electrically". This will become the "anode" grid. Since the cleaning process is somewhat "line of sight" it's best to surround the part to be cleaned to some extent with the electrodes.

Suspend part to be cleaned into bucket so it hangs in the middle, not touching bottom, and not touching electrodes. I place a piece of rebar across top of bucket (see photo below) and bolt a small piece of chain to my part to be cleaned, and clamp the chain on the rod so that the chain hangs from the rod, and suspends the part into solution below. The part to clean then becomes the "cathode".

Attach battery charger - place NEGATIVE LEAD (this is critical!!) on the piece that is to be cleaned. Attach POSITIVE, or RED lead of charger, to electrode "grid" formed when you placed electrodes, or rods, into bucket and tied them all together.

Make sure electrodes and part to be cleaned are not touching each other, then turn on charger. Within seconds, you should see a lot of tiny bubbles rising from the part suspended in the mixture. Do not do this inside, or in a closed area - those bubbles are the component parts of water - H2O - hydrogen and oxygen. Remember the Hindenburg? Well, actually that was caused in part by the explosive coating they painted on the skin of the craft, but the hydrogen will burn explosively so DO be careful!
the rust and bubbles are attracted to the electrodes You will need to clean them from time to time - they will get covered with gunk; in fact, after many uses, they will have eroded down and need to be replaced. That is why I use rebar - it's easy to get, cheap, and most of all - SAFE FOR YOU and your environment! You can pour the waste solution on the lawn and it won't hurt it. Do watch out for ornamental shrubs, which may not like iron rich soil, however. No use making your spouse mad!

How large an item can you clean? Well, it's up to your imagination, your budget - because it takes water, your time and wife's patience. Terry demonstrated this process on a very large scale using a tank made of plywood and lined with plastic, a DC welder for power supply and hundreds of gallons of water. You will need to use more electrodes with larger parts and a larger "tank".
safety Precautions:
- Make sure no spills can get to the battery charger. (electrocution potential as with any electric appliance) cover battery charger if left outside..
- The leads from the charger are relatively safe, but you may still get a bit of a shock if you put your hands in the solution or touch the electrodes while the charger is running.
- Turn off the current before making adjustments to the setup. Just as a "spark" can cause a charging battery to explode in your face, this process produces similar gases because this process splits water into hydrogen gas (at the negative electrode) and oxygen at the positive electrode).
- Hydrogen will burn explosively if ignited. All flames, cigarettes, torches, etc. must be removed from the area, and sparks caused by touching the leads together must be avoided. The work should be performed outside or in a well ventilated area to remove these gases safely.
- Washing soda solutions are alkaline and will irritate the skin and eyes. Use eye protection and gloves. Immediately wash off any solution spilled or splashed onto your body.
Washing soda
Washing soda should be in the laundry section of your grocery store. It comes in a yellow box, made by Arm & Hammer, but it's NOT baking soda. If you're interested, washing soda is Sodium Carbonate or "soda ash"(Na2CO3), baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate (NaHCO3), and borax is Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate (Na2B4O7*10H2O), all different chemical compounds.

Want to make your own "laundry soda"? Take baking soda, spread it out onto a cookie sheet and bake it in the oven at a little over 300 degrees for an hour or so it will drive away a water and CO2 molecule thus making washing soda.
At temperatures above 300o Fahrenheit (149o Celsius), baking soda decomposes into sodium carbonate, water, and carbon dioxide.
2NaHCO3 -> Na2Co3 + H20 + CO2

happy cooking Ü

[lilwendal]

Muratic acid from your local pool supply and a couple boxes of baking soda.
Once you try it you'll never go back.
1 five gallon bucket filled half way up with straight muratic acid
1 Five gallon bucket filled 3/4 full with water and 3 small boxes of Arm and Hammer,
Suspend the steel part in the acid for minutes t to hours depending on the sevarity of rust.
When you happy all the rust is gone drop part into the neutralising  backing soda.
Rinse with straight up H2o then dry.
Rust free parts for less then 10.00

[hutch]

I do it.  I took a 40 gallon plastic trash tub and bolted in rebar on the sides of it and it works great.  I am in no rush and its cheap.  A buddy of mine uses a kiddie pool and can dunk an entire rear end in the thing.  Comes out looking bran new after about 12 hours.

[hemi-hampton]

If you use Oxalic Acid it will be done in only 2-3 hours, 1/2  hour if more concentrated formula used. LEON.

[lilwendal]

Anybody got a before and after of the electrolysis method?
Heres todays muratic acid bath.  First shot shows a rusty seat track.... Froze in place.
Next after 2 hours in a weak bath.
Slides like new!

[speedfreak68]

we do electrolisis on alot of parts here at the college it works pretty well.

[hemi-hampton]

If I remember right the Electolosis method keeps the original paint intact unlike sandblasting. That would have to be a factor to consider. Oxalic Acid keeps paint intact also. Have not tried Muratic acid. LEON.

[lilwendal]

The muratic acid does not attack plastics so teflon guides and nylon parts are usually safe.
It really is only good for the rust.  It does not remove grease very well and original paint will soften but is usually not removed with the acid..
My usual method is parts washer if its greasy....then muratic bath...then in the blast cabinet for final spots of paint.
I know some would say why not right to the cabinet but when you loook at the pics I posted you have to admitt you are going to spend a lot less time in the cabinet.

[terrible one]

Another thing about the electrolysis is retaining metal instead of having it stripped off and pitting worsened. I've tried it before and it works wonders, but don't have room for my setup in the shop anymore and am too lazy to put it together again. Now when it comes to my 8 3/4", I sure would like to do like whoever said and make on with a kiddie pool that I could dip it in!

[70-500-SE-EXPORT]

Muratic acid works GREAT for rust removal. However you MUST REMOVE IT. Rinsing with water will NOT stop it from eating the metal after its rinsed. You MUST dip the part in Phosphoric acid. This will neutralize the muratic acid. If you do not do this the rust will EAT the metal alive UNDER the new paint. It will never stop rusting. Phosphoric acid also works great for dipping rusted parts into. But muratic acid is stronger and works better on severely rusted parts. Muratic acid is nasty stuff and the vapor is horrible. I use phosphoric to remove rust. You can get a gallon at home depot fpr $13. its called phosphoric plus. It sold for etching concrete. The same thing eastwood sells for much more. Its also the same as OSPHO brand.

[GreenMachine]

I decided to try muratic acid. I liked the results, but the vapors are too much! I had "organic vapors" cartridges in my respirator that didn't help at all. Probably should have sprung for the correct ones. I experimented with aluminum which was a bad mistake. The acid eats it FAST! and left it black. Here are the pics:

[bordin34]

Careful with aluminum ad muriatic acid, it lets off some gas, my guess is hydrogen, and can be explosive.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8LU5Mo6L8

[Bobs69]

Now that's using your brain.  I've never ever heard of this and I think it sounds great.  I will definately try to set something up to try it.  My only concern is that my battery charger is a new one that is from Canadian Tire.  It is "motoMaster Eliminator intelligent battery charger, with digital technology.

So, should I get an older one with analog gauges to do this with? 

[hutch]

I have been doing that for years.  Here is a trash can tub I made up when I rebuilt my bumpers a few months ago.

[Musicman]

... or just go buy a jug of EVAPO-RUST... 

http://www.evaporust.com/

[Bobs69]

Have you used this "Evapo-rust"?

[375instroke]

I've tried it.  I had a problem with removing the black stuff from the pits.  Any suggestions?

[bordin34]

Is there a "wiring diagram" for this?

[69*F5*SE]

I've used Evapo-Rust.  If you soak your rusty part in it it will remove the rust. It works good for things that can be soaked completely till the rust is gone.     Ted

[ACUDANUT]

I have been doing that for years.  Here is a trash can tub I made up when I rebuilt my bumpers a few months ago.

Hutch, I like your set up.  My only question is where you connect the positive cable (did not see a charger hooked up), and how long are your metal rods (rebar)

[bigroge1]

Anybody got a before and after of the electrolysis method?
Heres todays muratic acid bath.  First shot shows a rusty seat track.... Froze in place.
Next after 2 hours in a weak bath.
Slides like new!

that looks amazing but if ur really on a tight budget i just dip the parts in degreaser use a wire brush to scrape all the oil and loose dirt then sand it down cause u dont wanna sand all that crap into the metal then just use ur time on sanding and paint away  but im always up for new ideas