Junk 440

[cudaken]

 Sun is out, and it was time to give the 440 a little hell per Neil to seat the rings. About an hour ago took her to the gas station, had her in first, gave her a little hell to about 3500 RPM's. She ripped the tires at a 20 MPH roll with 2.76 sure grip that but a smile on my faces, but got a rattel, backed off and sound fine again. Thought to my self "need to check the fan, bolt might be backing off.

Got to the station and got some gas. Asked Bob (does my driver's and is Chevy racer) to take a listen, fired her up, sounded good. Gave her some gas and rattel was back. Bob looked at me and said "it's junk, wrist pin or broken pistion".    Limped her back home and coasted as much as I could. Shut her down then started back up.

Called the machine shop that did the 3rd rebulid before I ever started it and spoke with Dan, he did the motor mount repair but did not know that his son Rick rebulit the 440. First he said was "all we did was fix the mont, what dose that have to do with what we did!" Explained to him Rick did the motor and I only have 85 miles on the engine. Told him what Bob thought might be wrong was told "wrist pins don't rattle and unlikely you broke a piston" in a  tone. Well, I am getting getting pissed but did not show it in my voices, bitching does not help and I paid cash. Won't even tell you what he said about "giving the 440 a little hell to break in the Plasma Molly rings to seat them".

Not sure what I should do next, kill my self, pull the head's, drop the oil pan or list the mess on E-bay.

I called Bob after I got home, he did give me a glimer of hope, asked me if I have a mechanical fule pump and I do and just installed. He thought about it after I left and had one that went bad that sort of sounded like the noise my was making. Noise did sound like it was coming from around the front bottom right.

It it is a bad wrist pin or broken skrit how much run time do I have till I hurt the block? Reason I ask is Bob said to run the engine to a RPM I hear the rattle and start pulling wires till the nosie is gone. That will tell me what hole is bad.

As luck would have it, I do have a extra set of L22665F pistons so that will help.

                          Fuck it, want to buy a Charger!

[Blown70]

Ken,  have some CAM2  Calm down.

now.... Check the fuel pump, I know you mention issues with that.  I personally have never seen a wrist pin or skirt a piston in that short of time.  I have seen a few motors in my days.  Check the oil and filter to see if you have any Grindings in there.

I do not know who did your motor.  BUT the last 440 That I had build the guy told me this..... Put it together.  Start it.  Time it.  Give it 10minutes of warm up.  THEN PUT IT TO THE FLOOR IF YOU WANT.   I WILL WARRANTY  ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS..... Know what.... Nothing ever happend and I had it over 7,000 RPM when I was being stupid.

BLOWN  70

BTW you are much like me when things don't go right with the 70

[Runner]

sounds like bob works on alot of FE fords,   (the fuel pump rattles and wrist pin problems)     whats the oil presure like?. could it be a broken rocker shaft? a broken rocker arm?.a bent push tube?.      if it was mine i would have the valve covers off having a look around.     it could also be a bad cam ( hope not) .   honerstly moly rings should be broken in after the first couple heat cycles unless th cylenders werent honed right or they werent round.     i doubt its a wrist pin unless it was put together really tight or you have some serious oiling problems.      piston to valve clearance was checked? what spring on on it?     do you have duel spings and if so did you brake the cam in with just the outers?


  ohhh and dont forget to recheck your torque converter bolts if its an auto, infact thats where id start.  it happens alot and it sounds bad when it does. .......  dont ask how i know   

  could it be an exhaust leak?

[firefighter3931]

It sounds like the noise comes in at higher engine speeds if i'm reading this right. Check the valvetrain to see if anything is loose or broken. It could also be a bad lifter that is collapsing at higher rpm. Have a look at those converter bolts to make sure they haven't backed off.

(1) does the rattle come in at 3500 rpm and higher ?
(2) how does it sound at idle ? any rattle ?
(3) does it rattle only when the car is moving or will it rattle in neutral if you blip the throttle ?

Ron

[cudaken]

 Runner, oil pressuer is 65 PSI at idle, blocked bored with plates, custom cut push rods, mild reed blower cam with 461 and 480 lift, MP Hp 440 springs that matched the lift. I have also had lose convert bolts but banged all the time. Just started he up with the door closed    and still sounds great but never took her off idle.

On break in, was told I need to give her some hell to seat the rings. As far as the pin's being two tight, could be. But you would think that after being rebulit 3 times before start up someone would have got that. Not exhaust leak, I wish. It is not a ticking sound but a rattle only after 1500 to 2000 Rpm's.

Looking for some local help, first is the new fuel pump, then pull the valve covers, then a E-bay listing Will check the bell housing bolts, converter bolts rocker arm bolts drop the belts ETC. I know the drill, but at this point I think I may still be screwed. Just fired her again, if I was not looking for the sound I would have missed it.

                  Need a for sale sign. ken

[cudaken]

 Little good new's, I fix the break light switch But seems the broke light is on.

[Blown70]

I do hate to kick you when you are down..... WHO rebuilt this thing?   Sounds almost like they had not idea what they were doing?

[cudaken]

 Blowen, that is why I had the pices of shit rebulit 3 yes 3 times before I started it. First shop dropped the ball on deck height, after the heads where done intake did not fit. Turned out the block was .030 below deck height. Local Mopar so called expert did the heads and found the deck problem after he open her up and went throught the block. Told me the stock push rod's would be fine with a .030 below deck height, I think not. Called Rich, one of the few MOPAR experts I know, told me to use D&D he was using them. Had Rick (nasty phone called I listed with his dad) check the push rods and the stock one would have bent on start up.

Engine had sat in my then body shop for some time. Saw some git in the oil passagess that where not sealed and said want this sucker opened again and checked again. Had Rick redo her yet a 3rd time, found some crap on the rear bearing, said he pulled it all apart, hot tanked everything again, checked everthing and srewed her back together.

                                Ken

[bad1032]

cuda what state are you in?

[Runner]

do you have an adjustable valve train?. is so it could be a loose  rocker if not it could still be a push tube that was made to short wrong.    i really dont think its a wrist pin unless you hurt a piston when you got on it. ill bet it turns out to be something minor.

       good luck and dont give up.  if its bothering you, walk away. thats the nice thing about these type cars, we dont need them to get us to and from work in the morning

[cudaken]

 Bad1032, what state am I in, despair. IL about 15 miles from St Louis MO.

Runner stock like HP MP stamped rockers.

Ron was so kind to call me, he thinks there should be more ratteling when cold than warm if it is a pin or broken skirt.

God, I knew I should have done this motor my self, but the Blower part scared me off. If this is junk, will be the only bad BB block I have ever owned and olny one I did not do my self.

                                        ken

[firefighter3931]

ill bet it turns out to be something minor.

          good luck and dont give up.   if its bothering you, walk away.

I agree with all of Mike's statements. It's gonna be something minor and most likely valvetrain related. It's one of those things that's difficult to diagnose without "being there" to hear what's going on....

Ken, great chatting with you tonight. Tomorrow is a new day....look things over in the morning and call anytime. 

Ron

[2Gunz]

Are you sure its not something as simple as detonation ?

I got some bad gas one time and my car rattled and made all sorts of weird sounds.

Set the timing way back and it went away, burned out the crap gas and set it back...... fine after that.

You said you had trouble with heads and milling and whatever else. You have any idea what the compresson

Ratio is at this point?  Could it be your in the 10+:1 range and the gas cant take it?

I think I would make sure you fuel pressure is good and try to get some 100+ octane in it.

Anyway Im not there and you prolly thought about all of this allready.

Just an idea.

[cudaken]

 2 Gunz, not detonation, 9.03 to 1 and has 100 Octane Av gas in her now.

I laying my hopes on the fuel pump then valve train. Will up date later today. Heck, rocker arm bolt might have backed off.

                                     Cuda Ken

[ChgrSteve67]

I always keep a few extra sticks of dynamite around for just these kind of occasions.
The amount I use is directionally proportional to the number of Barrels the carb has.
I've only had to use it on a few Fords but never a Dodge.

Sorry to make a joke Ken but you sound like you could use a good laugh.

You can do it!

[cudaken]

 Steve, not a problem about the joke. I know that fresh engines can die fast. Would rather buy a 10,000 motor over a never started motor.

Ran a engine shop for a year and half and found the bad ones went this way. 40% where bad on fire up, 25 % in the first 500 miles, 15% in 1000 miles, 15 % in 2500 miles and rest under 5000 miles. We had a 50,000 mile warranty, never seen one with over 10,000 miles unless something stupid happend, no oil changes (need to show recipts and that did happen at 25,000 miles) over heated (used heat tap's) and one person the drove over something that took out the oil pan but she just keept on driving. Car had a oil pressuer gauge, but her (she was 17) Dad said she did not know what it mean's and never read the owners manual so it was not her fault? I shut him down when I said "bet if she bought a new curling iron she would have read the manual"! 

Paid us to replaces the 2.9 in the Z-24. Or was that a 2.8, been a long time ago.

                                     Cuda Ken

[max]

Ken, i had a simular problem with a 340 i built earlier this year.

i fired it up and it sounded great, then when i brought the rpms up i started hearing this god awlful noise on the drivers side. it sounded like something had broken in the engine.

so i shut it down and pulled the valve cover and didn't see anything so then i started thinking that i was having some piston to valve contact.

i decided to check it with the valve cover off so lots of lost oil later i didn't hear the noise.

i put the valve cover back on and start the engine and it sounded great, bring up the rpms and it was back. i finally pulled the cover again and i just happen to look on the inside of the cover and there it was.

one of the valve spring retainers had been hitting the valve cover. so when i put the cover back on i pulled it down a bit and tightened it back down and i haven't heard from it since.

i hope that is what your problem is but it drove me nuts for the better part of the afternoon just trying to find it and man did it make a noise.

[Ghoste]

The best warhorses were always the toughest to break Ken and this one is fighting you back hard.   Wish I had some answers for you or at least lived closer.   Not that I'd be any help but I can open beer.
Maybe that's my only advice, pop a can, stand back take a deep breath and have another think over it.

[cudaken]

 Max, I have that happen twices, once's a baffle feel off and was laying on the rockers. Last time was with DFS68 Charger 383. Dave installed a 520 lift cam and roller rockers. We did not hear it during cam break in but at idle we hurt a tapping sound. Pulled the valve covers and few of the rockers where beating holes in the baffles. Dave used stock cover's where mine are M/T's. Only one small baffel over the PCV. Have the same cover's on my Runner and it has a bigger cam than the 440.

More than likely something simple, I sure hope so. Just run's to dam good.

                                   Cuda Ken

[BigBlockSam]

i'm keeping my fingers crossed for ya Ken and yes the best motors are the ones that give ya hell in the begining.  Rene