300C with 2.7 - need opinion

[Charger_Croatia]

Don't think that I put it wrong 300C and 2.7 motor. All European models are designated as 300C.

I have my Sebring Convertible 2.7 for three years now and I'm feeling like "I had it enough...". This was my daily driver and sometimes I was upset with roof shaking, wind noise etc. Now I am looking for "normal" car and I was thinking about one of 300C models. I know that this is good car, I heard a lot of good things about it. Considering situation with fuel prices here, I must admit that HEMI is not in combination for few reasons: consumption, tax fees, price (56.000 EURO= $70.000). Reasonable choice would be CRD model but than again it is over $12.000 more expensive than 2.7 and similar is with 3.5 motor.
After thorough considering of my needs, it came out that well equipped 300C with 2.7 motor would be suitable. I'm not looking for sharp acceleration or speed records and I know that 2.7 is sometimes struggling with weight of 300C but I think it should be good enough for my needs. Anyway, with local Police interceptors you really don't need fast cars and it is so easy to get a ticket (penalty points included and when you collect certain number of penalties you can loose your driving license).
I know that some of you might laugh at this combo but I need honest opinion. Just to mention at the beginning, 300c 2.7 is totally different car than US version and has onyl teh same engine/transmition. Just imagine Limited equipment on car with 2.7 motor. All this little gizmo's are there (18'' wheels, ABS, ESP, leather seats, Boston audio equipment, rain sensing wipers etc)

If you put performace as second choice, will you recommend this car?

I apprecite help from you guys, I really need it.

[six-tee-nine]

I think most of our American friends know the 300 C as the Dodge Magnum.

Same problem here in Belgium..... The V8's are unnafordable when it comes to consumption altough A liquid petrolium injection system would solve that problem.
I don't know if it's hard to come by over there in Croatia, here in Belgium it's not a problem.

Don't talk about tax fees to me for daily used cars Even a 2.7 petrol or A CRD is tuff to pay for Over here. A Common Audi with a 2 litre engine is concidered as a powerful car (nope you don't even have 6 cilinders then, let alone

I'm serious if I would'nt  get a classic car tax fee for the Charger (if I had to pay the full amout of taxes as for a daily car) I would never bought one because it would simply be unnafordable. It's all based on cylinder capacity and power output.


To get back ontopic...

If it is my choise then it will be the 300C estate But i rather choose the CRD over the 2.7 because of the more low end power wich makes the car drive more comfortable in traffic
And of course the consumption will not vary much but Diesel still is alot cheaper here than petrol.

[Plumcrazy]

I would not buy anything with the 2.7 liter engine in it. 

[Charger_Croatia]

Six-tee-nine thank you for advice. I would choose CRD but the price difference is really high here.

As for 2.7, I know about issues with this engine in past. To be honest, I had two cars here with 2.7 and with oil change every 12 000 km (7500 miles) using synthetic oil and never had any problem. Also, I did not find bigger complaints in Europe. Maybe combination of 95 octane petrol  and synthetic oil is good one (in my case I am using 100 octane last couple years) and 2.7 is performing really well here.

[CB]

no opinion on this topics, just want to say hi, Petar 
how s the Charger doing?
CB

[Charger_Croatia]

no opinion on this topics, just want to say hi, Petar 
how s the Charger doing?
CB

Hi Christian! 

Well, Charger is on the "waiting list" for a while. Still some bodywork to do, than painting, than interior, than suspension, than interior...ups..getting lost....Maybe if day has 48 hours I would manage to do something.
I hope to continue with progress soon.

[moparstuart]

no opinion on this topics, just want to say hi, Petar 
how s the Charger doing?
CB

Hi Christian! 

Well, Charger is on the "waiting list" for a while. Still some bodywork to do, than painting, than interior, than suspension, than interior...ups..getting lost....Maybe if day has 48 hours I would manage to do something.
I hope to continue with progress soon.

yes 2.7 l motors are junk     they dont oil properly and go bad at about 60k .  If you go to buy used on they are junk and expensive  like 1800.00 to 2000.00 to start for high milers .  Stay away from all 2.7 L models  interpids, concords, sebrings ,stratus  all are bad news

[BigBlackDodge]

Not all 2.7's are junk. I have a 2000 Trep with 161k, no troubles with it and gets great gas mileage. I've heard all the stories about them too, guess I got lucky.


BBD

[moparstuart]

 you got very lucky I buy 98-02 intrepid with bad motors for 200.00  you can do a 3.5l change over    3.5's are great motor's
  but those 3.5's go for 1000.00

[BigBlackDodge]

I've heard alot of those 2.7 cars were used by the rental companies............I know mine was. Shortly after I got it with 70k on I found some repair bills that had fallen behind the glove box door. One was an oil change and the other was a brake/rotor repair, in the 6 months between the bills 20,000 miles had been added to it. I'm guessing no oil changes were made in between those dates by the rental owners.

BBD

[Charger_Croatia]

I agree with BBD.
As I said before, I did not heard for such problems here in European models. Maybe one of the reasons is synthetic oil usage. In my 2005 Sebring there is 5W30 on oil filler cap (no mineral oil with this spec as far as I know). There are few cars here with around 150k and no problems at all.

I'm aware of the engine so I need opinion on 300C as car in general.

[moparstuart]

I've heard alot of those 2.7 cars were used by the rental companies............I know mine was. Shortly after I got it with 70k on I found some repair bills that had fallen behind the glove box door. One was an oil change and the other was a brake/rotor repair, in the 6 months between the bills 20,000 miles had been added to it. I'm guessing no oil changes were made in between those dates by the rental owners.

BBD

call a couple salvage yards in your area and ask for a 00 intrepid 2.7 motor . you will crap your pants !!!!!!!!!

[Charger_Croatia]

I've heard alot of those 2.7 cars were used by the rental companies............I know mine was. Shortly after I got it with 70k on I found some repair bills that had fallen behind the glove box door. One was an oil change and the other was a brake/rotor repair, in the 6 months between the bills 20,000 miles had been added to it. I'm guessing no oil changes were made in between those dates by the rental owners.

BBD

call a couple salvage yards in your area and ask for a 00 intrepid 2.7 motor . you will crap your pants !!!!!!!!!

Well,I don't think I will find that car here, don't forget that we are talking about Europe. 
I forgot to mention that I'm considering brand new car, not used one. If I'm correct some issue were fixed after 2004. In the worst case I would keep car for few years and possible have around 60k on it. So even if it failed after that it will not be my concern any more. 

[superduperbee]

I had a 2000 Intrepid with the 2.7. I used Mobil 1 synthetic from the time it was new,used the best gas, kept on top of all maintenence and had CATOSTROPHIC engine failure [timing chain fell off inside engine, factory defect]  while still under warranty.Had a Hell of a time getting it fixed by the dealer even though still under warranty[this is why the big 3 are struggling. I have 2 words for them Customer Service] A year after dealer rebuilt engine it got a rod knock again. A shop near me here in Detroit said they get 4 or 5 2.4s a week coming in with the same thing. Oiling systems in these engines are bad design. Passages too small, they clog up even with regular oil changes. The shop said  Chrysler knows engines are a bad design and refused to do anything about it. no re-calls etc. I drove the Intrepid, rod knock and all to the competition and traded it in. I love my old mopars but will never buy a new one again. Ray

[Plumcrazy]

Six-tee-nine thank you for advice. I would choose CRD but the price difference is really high here.

As for 2.7, I know about issues with this engine in past. To be honest, I had two cars here with 2.7 and with oil change every 12 000 km (7500 miles) using synthetic oil and never had any problem.

I don't care what oil you use or how often you change it.  Those engines have another problem nobody has mentioned.  The water pump is completely inside the engine.  When (not if) it starts leaking, the coolant gets mixed with the engine oil. Probably about 6 to 8 thousand dollars later, you will have your car back on the road. 

[RD]

Six-tee-nine thank you for advice. I would choose CRD but the price difference is really high here.

As for 2.7, I know about issues with this engine in past. To be honest, I had two cars here with 2.7 and with oil change every 12 000 km (7500 miles) using synthetic oil and never had any problem.

I don't care what oil you use or how often you change it.  Those engines have another problem nobody has mentioned.  The water pump is completely inside the engine.  When (not if) it starts leaking, the coolant gets mixed with the engine oil. Probably about 6 to 8 thousand dollars later, you will have your car back on the road. 

this is the major engineering issue with these engines, and the biggest reason why you see some many chrysler vehicles with 2.7's on craigslist for dirt cheap and they all say "motor issues"

[Ponch ®]

The 2.7 is really not a bad engine. If you really aren't looking for performance and acceleration, I suppose it will do. I would recommend test driving or renting one before you buy it. I ain't gonna lie to you...the 2.7 is a total dog when it comes to acceleration, but once you get up to cruising speed it's more than satisfactory. It's not fast, but efficient and adequate.

As far as gas mileage...it depends on how you drive and where you drive. If you do a lot of highway driving, the HEMI can get just as good (if not better) gas mileage due to the MDS. My point of reference is that I have owned two Chargers, one with the 2.7 and the one I have now with the HEMI. I've taken both on 300 mile road trips, same exact route (L.A. to Vegas), and the gas mileage was about the same - about a tank and a half for the round trip. Keep in mind that while the 2.7 is theoretically the more economical engine, it needs to work a lot harder to move the 3900lb car. If you do a lot of street driving (traffic, stop and go), then you will notice that the 2.7 is the more economical engine.

I wouldn't be too worried about the reliability either. Some of the past years of the 2.7 had issues with sludge and the like, but as long as you regularly do oil changes (with thinner oil), you should be fine. I know guys that have put 70-80K+ miles on their 2.7 Chargers, Magnums, and 300's, and haven't had any issues with them.

Anyway...that's my 

Bottom line: if you LIKE the style of the car, but can't or don't want to spend the money for a HEMI-powered one, go for it  . It's what I did the first time around. There's so much stuff you can do to it as far as mods, and you can have a REALLY nice looking ride.

If you have more questions or want to do more research, check out LXForums.com There's a subforum dedicated to the 2.7L and 3.5L engines.

In fact, check out this thread on this same topic:
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=85648

[moparstuart]

The 2.7 is really not a bad engine. If you really aren't looking for performance and acceleration, I suppose it will do. I would recommend test driving or renting one before you buy it. I ain't gonna lie to you...the 2.7 is a total dog when it comes to acceleration, but once you get up to cruising speed it's more than satisfactory. It's not fast, but efficient and adequate.

As far as gas mileage...it depends on how you drive and where you drive. If you do a lot of highway driving, the HEMI can get just as good (if not better) gas mileage due to the MDS. My point of reference is that I have owned two Chargers, one with the 2.7 and the one I have now with the HEMI. I've taken both on 300 mile road trips, same exact route (L.A. to Vegas), and the gas mileage was about the same - about a tank and a half for the round trip. Keep in mind that while the 2.7 is theoretically the more economical engine, it needs to work a lot harder to move the 3900lb car. If you do a lot of street driving (traffic, stop and go), then you will notice that the 2.7 is the more economical engine.

I wouldn't be too worried about the reliability either. Some of the past years of the 2.7 had issues with sludge and the like, but as long as you regularly do oil changes (with thinner oil), you should be fine. I know guys that have put 70-80K+ miles on their 2.7 Chargers, Magnums, and 300's, and haven't had any issues with them.

Anyway...that's my 

Bottom line: if you LIKE the style of the car, but can't or don't want to spend the money for a HEMI-powered one, go for it  . It's what I did the first time around. There's so much stuff you can do to it as far as mods, and you can have a REALLY nice looking ride.

If you have more questions or want to do more research, check out LXForums.com There's a subforum dedicated to the 2.7L and 3.5L engines.

In fact, check out this thread on this same topic:
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=85648

actually the intrepid's i have driven are not dogs at all , but just know the motor wont last past 60k unless you are very lucky
   

[Ponch ®]

  actually the intrepid's i have driven are not dogs at all , but just know the motor wont last past 60k unless you are very lucky
   

yeah, but the intrepid is/was FWD, and weighted about 500 lbs than an LX (Charger, Magnum, 300) vehicle. Also, once again, the sludge build-up problems the 2.7L had were corrected a few years ago. But just to be cautious, one still wants to get regular oil changes and use 5w 30 or synthetic.

[moparstuart]

  actually the intrepid's i have driven are not dogs at all , but just know the motor wont last past 60k unless you are very lucky
   

yeah, but the intrepid is/was FWD, and weighted about 500 lbs than an LX (Charger, Magnum, 300) vehicle. Also, once again, the sludge build-up problems the 2.7L had were corrected a few years ago. But just to be cautious, one still wants to get regular oil changes and use 5w 30 or synthetic.

they say they fixed them but i am already getting alot of calls on the newer 04-up cars 2.7 motors and they are selling for over $3000.00
  and yes that 2.7 l is way to small of a motor for the LX platform  that weight will kill those motor's   

[Charger_Fan]

I don't care what oil you use or how often you change it.  Those engines have another problem nobody has mentioned.  The water pump is completely inside the engine.  When (not if) it starts leaking, the coolant gets mixed with the engine oil. Probably about 6 to 8 thousand dollars later, you will have your car back on the road. 

Holy crap! Whoever brainstormed that design needs to be beyotchslapped.

[moparstuart]

I don't care what oil you use or how often you change it.  Those engines have another problem nobody has mentioned.  The water pump is completely inside the engine.  When (not if) it starts leaking, the coolant gets mixed with the engine oil. Probably about 6 to 8 thousand dollars later, you will have your car back on the road. 

Holy crap! Whoever brainstormed that design needs to be beyotchslapped.

yeah about as smart at the cadilac design that has the northstar v8 motor's   the starter is in the middle of the block under the intake .
  pain in the ass to change and they go bad all the time .  plus in the salvage buisness when  you pull the motor you either cut the engine wiring harness or pull the whole top of the motor to unbolt the starter wires to keep the harness in tact . either way you piss off your customer !!

[Charger_Croatia]

OK, as for 2.7 - acknowledged. I'm just wondering was it better after 2004. (according to available data they have fixed some issues).
Let's put this motor aside.
I was looking for info about the car generally speaking. There is no big population here and it is hard to have complete picture. I was hoping to get some feedback from you guys (excluding 2.7 motor).
Is there known issues with 300C?

[Brock Samson]

why not the 3.5?.   

[moparstuart]

why not the 3.5?.   

I agree go with the 3.5 or the hemi 

[Ponch ®]

OK, as for 2.7 - acknowledged. I'm just wondering was it better after 2004. (according to available data they have fixed some issues).
Let's put this motor aside.
I was looking for info about the car generally speaking. There is no big population here and it is hard to have complete picture. I was hoping to get some feedback from you guys (excluding 2.7 motor).
Is there known issues with 300C?

Yeah, the 05 and up motors had the issues corrected, though like I said earlier, you still wanna take pretty good care of it. Generally speaking though, there aren't many problem areas with the car. There may be a few things here and there, but nothing major. Mostly subjective stuff - like "the car feels too big" or "it has a blind spot here", which is really a matter of personal preference. Then again, your car will likely be built in Austria - and I honestly don't know of the quality is better or worse than the ones we have here, which are built in Canada.

why not the 3.5?.   

Good point...maybe it's not available in Europe? They do offer it with a diesel, IIRC. Otherwise, maybe it's an economy issue. When I was shopping for a car, I found that a nicely loaded 3.5L (SXT) is not that much cheaper (maybe $2K) than a base HEMI, and even a base HEMI is just as nicely loaded as a 3.5L, so at that point you might as well go with the HEMI. But if it comes down to money for him, then the 2.7L is the best option. 

[694spdRT]

Out of curiosity, we have a 2000 Intrepid with a 3.2 engine. I have not heard of any known problems with that one. It has over 90K on it without any problems.

[moparstuart]

Out of curiosity, we have a 2000 Intrepid with a 3.2 engine. I have not heard of any known problems with that one. It has over 90K on it without any problems.

3.2 and the 3.5 are basically the same motors and they are rock solid motors'

[Charger_Croatia]

I would like to thanks all for comments.
To avoid long "quote" text I shall explain my point of view.
At the beginning of the thread it was explained some difference in price between engines (3.5 over $7000 more; CRD diesel over $ 12000 more and a HEMI over $18000 more than 2.7). So, there is economical side involved as you can see it is not matter od 2k but descent money. My opinion is that I can use that difference and spend on Charger repairs.
For my needs 2.7 would be enough. I am not looking for acceleration as that car would be used most of the time in urban/suburban traffic. Also, I did some homework too. There was no such issues with 2.7 engine here, I have checked that with a friend working in local Chrysler service shop. There are engines with over 100k on them and no problems (related to Sebring, 300M and 300C models); regular oil change with 5W40 synthetic. Due to hot summers it looks that this oil is the best choice, winters are mild though.
I don't know about quality difference between Austria and Canada built 300C, but it is quite reliable car and the only known issue is oil leakage from 5 speed transmition on CRD engine.
By the way, all 300C models (at least for my country) have THE SAME equipment, except needed modifications for HEMI.