The NASCAR Thread

[Ponch ®]

AND under a Chase-less format, Gordon would have 6 titles by now.

Didn't realize you were a closet Gordon fan

Wonder how many titles Petty would have won under the chase format
Your right about the old days. At times they would have two races a week. 50-60 races a year, no private jets, no power steering, no cooling helmets, you helped work on the car.

I don't know if I'm a closet fan...I am a Gordon fan period. I'm admittedly one of those people that got pulled in to the NASCAR craze during the mid-90's, thanks in part to the exposure Gordon was getting at the time. Plus, like Jimmie, he's from Cali.

[Brock Samson]

 I stopped watching many years ago now... But I guess if you were not around for the Glory Days as I was lucky enough to be, It might be entertaining... 

[Ponch ®]

I stopped watching many years ago now... But I guess if you were not around for the Glory Days as I was lucky enough to be, It might be entertaining... 

Yes, the glory days...when races had exciting finishes and the leader would finish 3 laps ahead of 2nd place. I've watched some of that stuff on NASCAR Classics and whatnot...other than the cars looking cool, it was boring as hell.

[Brock Samson]

 Kids! 

[Ponch ®]

Kids! 

Then again, you old folks also think Jimmy Buffet and Steely Dan are the ro0x0or.

[Brock Samson]

 the WHAT?.. 

[Ponch ®]

the WHAT?.. 

exactly 

[Brock Samson]

Maybe I should say "Ehh?" 

[maxwellwedge]

Alas - Watching a bunch of guys just riding around worrying about points until the contrived 10 race play-off.
Racers race - not ride around.
F the championship - I want to see everyone racing for the win - race by race.
Even Tony Stewart has transformed into the Vanilla PC world the majority are in.

I loved all the decades but this chase crap and the spec Iroc cars has sucked the life right out of a once great sport. Can you say WWE?

[The70RT]

The cars are so much easier to drive then they were back then. Petty also won 27 races in 1967. Im just sick of Johnson, Gordon and Kyle Busch. What fun is it to see the same thing year after year. Im sure the ratings will go down some more now. You can even get Bristol tickets now, before it was years on a waiting list.

[Brock Samson]

I stopped watching many years ago now... But I guess if you were not around for the Glory Days as I was lucky enough to be, It might be entertaining... 

Yes, the glory days...when races had exciting finishes and the leader would finish 3 laps ahead of 2nd place. I've watched some of that stuff on NASCAR Classics and whatnot...other than the cars looking cool, it was boring as hell.

So how is the Guy winning five Champs in a row any different?.. And while were skinning that tomato, how are the cars any different, excluding decals. 

[Ghoste]

Not to mention that the engines they ran at least were based on production ones.  I agree they have been getting away from being a "stock" car since the late 60's but they were so much closer then than today.  A manufacturer brought what he had to the table and hoped it was good enough.
And when was the last time you saw an independant?

[miller]

AND under a Chase-less format, Gordon would have 6 titles by now.

Didn't realize you were a closet Gordon fan

Wonder how many titles Petty would have won under the chase format
Your right about the old days. At times they would have two races a week. 50-60 races a year, no private jets, no power steering, no cooling helmets, you helped work on the car.

http://jayski.com/teams/chase2010.htm#75-03

Still 7 (you can only do modern era so his first 5 are hard to gauge).

[nvrbdn]

The cars are so much easier to drive then they were back then. Petty also won 27 races in 1967. Im just sick of Johnson, Gordon and Kyle Busch. What fun is it to see the same thing year after year. Im sure the ratings will go down some more now. You can even get Bristol tickets now, before it was years on a waiting list.

                  you watch a race and all they show is where jimmy,jeff or jr. are at. then the race is over. if those three arent in the top 5 they ignore the others to talk to a guy that finished 15th. i seen others get a flat and have to fight back to the lead lap, but let jimmy or jeff have a flat, and you will hear about it for the rest of the race.

[A383Wing]

I'm gonna start selling merchandise that says...."Anyone But Johnson"

[nvrbdn]

i will buy a shirt

[Ponch ®]

I stopped watching many years ago now... But I guess if you were not around for the Glory Days as I was lucky enough to be, It might be entertaining...  

Yes, the glory days...when races had exciting finishes and the leader would finish 3 laps ahead of 2nd place. I've watched some of that stuff on NASCAR Classics and whatnot...other than the cars looking cool, it was boring as hell.

So how is the Guy winning five Champs in a row any different?.. And while were skinning that tomato, how are the cars any different, excluding decals.  

It's different because he's doing it in a time where there is a lot of parity in the competition. Instead of having 1-2 guys that have a realistic shot at winning the race, now you have 15-20.

I see a big complaint is that the cars are all the same - which is a valid gripe. I dont like it either. It's a bad thing if you're a fan of either one of the brands, but strictly from a racing standpoint, it makes the racing better. The argument that nowadays it's all car and not the driver is almost counterintuitive. Think about it - in the "glory days" if you drove the car model that was aero friendly, you already had a huge advantage. Throw in all the engineering and horsepower that money could buy you (if you were a big team like Petty or the Wood Bros), and that's how you ended up with Petty and Pearson finishing 1-2 in every race. So maybe the cars were all "harder to drive" than they are now, but they were hard for everyone.  It's pretty ironic that most American race fans don't like/get Formula One, because it's closer to how NASCAR was back then - you pretty much know two races into the season who's going to win most of the races because they built the better car.

Having all the current NASCAR cars be the same puts more emphasis on the driver and on how the car is set up. Even if you're pouring a ton of money into your cars, you don't have that huge an advantage over the other guys. The difference between the pole sitter and 43rd place in qualifying this weekend was less than half a second (.4),

And then there's the "it's like the WWE" argument - because all cars are the same, or phantom cautions, or a driver allegedly getting preferential treatment. I don't see how the so called "glory days" were any less WWE - it's well documented that certain teams would get "the call" that the inspectors weren't going to be as thorough as usual, or get a slap in the wrist for things like having an oversized engine (*cough* Petty *cough*). And the next time someone wants to accuse Chad Knaus of being a cheater, look up Smokey Yunick...though for some reason he's remembered as some sort of outlaw genius instead of the cheater he was.

I'm not in any way trying to make NASCAR today as the greatest thing...there are a lot of things I don't like. If you think it sucks, that's your opinion and maybe you're right...but don't make it sound as if it was any better in some idyllic past. If anything it sucked more...

[Ghoste]

I think Smokey Yunick being remembered as an outlaw genius instead of a cheater likely depends on what kind of Chevy fan you are.  Innovative?  Yes, but he was laughably illegal some of the time.  The Banana Chevelle comes to mind.

[The70RT]

I stopped watching many years ago now... But I guess if you were not around for the Glory Days as I was lucky enough to be, It might be entertaining... 

Yes, the glory days...when races had exciting finishes and the leader would finish 3 laps ahead of 2nd place. I've watched some of that stuff on NASCAR Classics and whatnot...other than the cars looking cool, it was boring as hell.

So how is the Guy winning five Champs in a row any different?.. And while were skinning that tomato, how are the cars any different, excluding decals. 

It's different because he's doing it in a time where there is a lot of parity in the competition. Instead of having 1-2 guys that have a realistic shot at winning the race, now you have 15-20.

I see a big complaint is that the cars are all the same - which is a valid gripe. I dont like it either. It's a bad thing if you're a fan of either one of the brands, but strictly from a racing standpoint, it makes the racing better. The argument that nowadays it's all car and not the driver is almost counterintuitive. Think about it - in the "glory days" if you drove the car model that was aero friendly, you already had a huge advantage. Throw in all the engineering and horsepower that money could buy you (if you were a big team like Petty or the Wood Bros), and that's how you ended up with Petty and Pearson finishing 1-2 in every race. So maybe the cars were all "harder to drive" than they are now, but they were hard for everyone.  It's pretty ironic that most American race fans don't like/get Formula One, because it's closer to how NASCAR was back then - you pretty much know two races into the season who's going to win most of the races because they built the better car.

Having all the current NASCAR cars be the same puts more emphasis on the driver and on how the car is set up. Even if you're pouring a ton of money into your cars, you don't have that huge an advantage over the other guys. The difference between the pole sitter and 43rd place in qualifying this weekend was less than half a second (.4),

And then there's the "it's like the WWE" argument - because all cars are the same, or phantom cautions, or a driver allegedly getting preferential treatment. I don't see how the so called "glory days" were any less WWE - it's well documented that certain teams would get "the call" that the inspectors weren't going to be as thorough as usual, or get a slap in the wrist for things like having an oversized engine (*cough* Petty *cough*). And the next time someone wants to accuse Chad Knaus of being a cheater, look up Smokey Yunick...though for some reason he's remembered as some sort of outlaw genius instead of the cheater he was.

I'm not in any way trying to make NASCAR today as the greatest thing...there are a lot of things I don't like. If you think it sucks, that's your opinion and maybe you're right...but don't make it sound as if it was any better in some idyllic past. If anything it sucked more...

[/quote]

Not really at all -  


2010 - 13 diff winners
2009 - 13 "              "
2008 - 11 "              "
2000 - 14 "              "
1990 - 14 "              "
1985 - 12 "              "
1980 - 10 "              "
1975 - 8  "               "
1970 - 12 "              "
1965 - 11"               "

[General_01]

For me, back in the day is the 80's-90's. That is when there seemed to be some parity, difference in cars, more leeway for teams to make the cars run, and less "team" and more single car teams. Going to this "IROC" like field and the Chase format and 4 car teams is just ridiculous. JJ being allowed to swap an entire pit crew with his teamate mid race was just hypocrisy at it's best. NASCAR wants to call it a team sport, but you can change your team in the middle of a race because you don't like how your team is performing? And don't tell me it's fair. Robby Gordon doesn't have 4 teams running and can switch with his other 3 teamates out there. Even RCR waited until mid week between races to swap Burton and Harvicks team.

If I remember right, they changed to the Chase format because Matt Kenseth won the Championship with one win. Now we go to the same guy winning it 5 years straight. I understand why people refer to it as WWE on wheels.

[Ponch ®]

Not really at all - 


2010 - 13 diff winners
2009 - 13 "              "
2008 - 11 "              "
2000 - 14 "              "
1990 - 14 "              "
1985 - 12 "              "
1980 - 10 "              "
1975 - 8  "               "
1970 - 12 "              "
1965 - 11"               "

What about all the other years? And really we're only looking at 1965-1985 if we're talking about the Good Ol Days. Thats 5 years out of 25. 65 doesn't really apply there either because that's when they were running 60-65 races...

For me, back in the day is the 80's-90's. That is when there seemed to be some parity, difference in cars, more leeway for teams to make the cars run, and less "team" and more single car teams. Going to this "IROC" like field and the Chase format and 4 car teams is just ridiculous. JJ being allowed to swap an entire pit crew with his teamate mid race was just hypocrisy at it's best. NASCAR wants to call it a team sport, but you can change your team in the middle of a race because you don't like how your team is performing? And don't tell me it's fair. Robby Gordon doesn't have 4 teams running and can switch with his other 3 teamates out there. Even RCR waited until mid week between races to swap Burton and Harvicks team.

If I remember right, they changed to the Chase format because Matt Kenseth won the Championship with one win. Now we go to the same guy winning it 5 years straight. I understand why people refer to it as WWE on wheels.

You can pull your quaterback in the middle of a game (unless he's Favre, evidently). Hell, you can pull the entire defensive unit if you want (though that happens as often as changing an entire pit crew mid race). It's no different really...

[nvrbdn]

there is one point with that too, you can start a race feeling a little under the weather or have a sore foot,and another driver can get in and drive the race and you still get the points.  so as much as i didnt like that pit crew thing either, its not much diff than changing the driver.

[Landonsrt]

I thought the whole changing the crew around for one race is stupid.. They constantly keep running 13-17 second pit stops but one string of mistakes, it's the end of the world!! What about talladega or daytona? One mistake by one driver can ruin 100s of peoples day... But do they swap drivers?? Nope!

[Ponch ®]

I thought the whole changing the crew around for one race is stupid.. They constantly keep running 13-17 second pit stops but one string of mistakes, it's the end of the world!! What about talladega or daytona? One mistake by one driver can ruin 100s of peoples day... But do they swap drivers?? Nope!

In this case though, the #48 crew had been underperforming for a while now. The #24 had been one of the best throughout the season, so with Gordon out of the race and out of the Chase, it made sense to switch them. It's really not all that different from other sports - like trading a good player from a losing team to a good team right before the trade deadline in order to get better for the playoffs, or calling up a player from the minors.

[General_01]

I thought the whole changing the crew around for one race is stupid.. They constantly keep running 13-17 second pit stops but one string of mistakes, it's the end of the world!! What about talladega or daytona? One mistake by one driver can ruin 100s of peoples day... But do they swap drivers?? Nope!

In this case though, the #48 crew had been underperforming for a while now. The #24 had been one of the best throughout the season, so with Gordon out of the race and out of the Chase, it made sense to switch them. It's really not all that different from other sports - like trading a good player from a losing team to a good team right before the trade deadline in order to get better for the playoffs, or calling up a player from the minors.

How is it the same as other sports? You can pull your QB and put in "his" back up, a guy on "your" roster. I would akin that to pulling the crew chief and putting the car chief in charge. You can pull the entire defense and change them out with the 2nd string from the "same" team or trade for better players during the week. You can't have a receiver play for your team just because his team has a bye week. I guess I just don't get your logic Ponch.

P.S.- I live in Minneapolis and happen to agree with playing Favre. You guys have not seen Tarvarus. The only reason he is still around is because Childress didn't want to admit he was wrong picking him. The guy is not starting QB material.