How sad, bye bye muscle cars of the future.

[1969chargerrtse]

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=455013&topart=luxury

I think the new fast cars will be fast or faster, but electric.  Like the Tesla roadster that does 0 to 60 in 4.7 and this is at the threshold of the technology.

[firefighter3931]

The greenies and their cronies are trying to mass hypnotize all of us with their BS. Unfortunately the masses seem to be buying into this baloney like Lemmings at a cliff.  Of course the politicians are only concerned with re-election and padding their outragous pensions so they are caving into the pressure and passing these rediculous laws. 

Here's a good read on the infamous Dr Suzuki. Interesting that 25 yrs ago he was concerned with an impending ice age and now he's worried that the planet is going to fry itself. C'mon dude....make up your fricken mind will ya ! 


http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/views/story.html?id=763de072-f46e-45fe-93d0-1e9735f8dfae&p=1


Musclecars are here to stay....there will allways be a market for them, inmo. The new standards apply to all vehicles in the manufacturers lineup....it's supposed to be an average fuel consumption figure for all vehicles under the umbrella. A few econobox diesels pulling 70mpg will offset the musclecar gas hogs so that the standard is met. It remains to be seen if these standards are even realistic to begin with and most likely the numbers will be adjusted to reflect reality. 



Ron

[Mike DC]

I've got two comments on this:


1.  I think we do need to get worried. 
The new standards are SO high that probably no amount of fleet-wide averaging will keep the hot cars as hot as they've been up until now.  And the only way that the industry is gonna invent its way out of the problem is to make the whole damn car out of carbon fiber.  That would cost so much we'd be out of the market.  Either the standards get adjusted WAY-Y-Y downwards or we'll see the end of real cars. 


2.  We did this to ourselves. 
It has been clear as day for many years that the current amount of gas the US was burning was just not gonna be sustained.  Variety of reasons.  So we could either double the price of gas and really start getting usage under control, or we could double the mileage (read: double the price & halve the horsepower) of the vehicles.  Everyone who didn't scream bloody murder at the thought of paying another friggin' dime for gas, raise your hand.

   

[1969chargerrtse]

I've got two comments on this:


1.  I think we do need to get worried. 
The new standards are SO high that probably no amount of fleet-wide averaging will keep the hot cars as hot as they've been up until now.  And the only way that the industry is gonna invent its way out of the problem is to make the whole damn car out of carbon fiber.  That would cost so much we'd be out of the market.  Either the standards get adjusted WAY-Y-Y downwards or we'll see the end of real cars. 


2.  We did this to ourselves. 
It has been clear as day for many years that the current amount of gas the US was burning was just not gonna be sustained.  Variety of reasons.  So we could either double the price of gas and really start getting usage under control, or we could double the mileage (read: double the price & halve the horsepower) of the vehicles.  Everyone who didn't scream bloody murder at the thought of paying another friggin' dime for gas, raise your hand.

   

I don't think we did this to ourselves.  What about all the other huge growing countries like China that are using huge amount of fuels. Add that for the reason of demand increasing than what we use from the earlier times until now?  I also don't believe in the logic about people that drive big SUV's should be ashamed they are using to much fuel.  I believe if you live in America it's your "freedom" to drive what you want.

[BrianShaughnessy]

  In 25 years everyone will look back and wonder WTF happened to all the old gasoline powered cars.    A big technology shift is coming... part  of it's due to oil company greed and some because of many other factors.

  I still forsee that you'll be able to get gas for your old classic car sitting in the garage but your days of thinking you're going to drive a gas musclecar everyday... well...  no.   A turbo diesel, hydrogen  or some crazy electric thing musclecar... well just maybe.

  But some people here are still debating retrofitting electronic ignition on their cars   
 
 

[bull]

I guess it's time to break out all those 200 mpg carburetors the govt hid back in the 50s.

[Shakey]

Listen to the song Red Barchetta by Rush! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Rxjs9ZdtE

Their glimpse into the future.

[dodgecharger-fan]

Listen to the song Red Barchetta by Rush! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Rxjs9ZdtE

Their glimpse into the future.

I want to be the Uncle in that song.   

[hutch]

  In 25 years everyone will look back and wonder WTF happened to all the old gasoline powered cars.    A big technology shift is coming... part  of it's due to oil company greed and some because of many other factors.

  I still forsee that you'll be able to get gas for your old classic car sitting in the garage but your days of thinking you're going to drive a gas musclecar everyday... well...  no.   A turbo diesel, hydrogen  or some crazy electric thing musclecar... well just maybe.

  But some people here are still debating retrofitting electronic ignition on their cars   
 
 

I dont think its Oil Company Greed, The federal government makes more off a gal of gas than the oil companies do from gas tax.  I think oil companies make about 5 cents a cal, and taxes range from 20 to 45 cents a gal.

The issue is we dont have a free market in oil anymore like we did in the early days.  Oil companies could drill for more oil if we needed it.  We dont refine gas or drill for oil to meet the demand because of Federal Government involvement.  The gov needs to get out of the oil business.

[Mike DC]

   

We could raise the price of gas and keep engineering our cars with some common sense. 

Or we could keep our $3/gallon gas, and make every new vehicle into a slow plastic piece of sh*t that costs $40,000 to buy new and costs $9000 to fix a two-panel collision. 


I guess we've made our choice.

     

[chargerboy69]

 



The issue is we dont have a free market in oil anymore like we did in the early days.  Oil companies could drill for more oil if we needed it.  We dont refine gas or drill for oil to meet the demand because of Federal Government involvement.  The gov needs to get out of the oil business.

I agree with part of this. I also believe the tree huggers help stop us from drilling for more oil as well.

[superduperbee]

The greenies and their cronies are trying to mass hypnotize all of us with their BS. Unfortunately the masses seem to be buying into this baloney like Lemmings at a cliff.  Of course the politicians are only concerned with re-election and padding their outragous pensions so they are caving into the pressure and passing these rediculous laws. 

Here's a good read on the infamous Dr Suzuki. Interesting that 25 yrs ago he was concerned with an impending ice age and now he's worried that the planet is going to fry itself. C'mon dude....make up your fricken mind will ya ! 


http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/views/story.html?id=763de072-f46e-45fe-93d0-1e9735f8dfae&p=1 

Musclecars are here to stay....there will allways be a market for them, inmo. The new standards apply to all vehicles in the manufacturers lineup....it's supposed to be an average fuel consumption figure for all vehicles under the umbrella. A few econobox diesels pulling 70mpg will offset the musclecar gas hogs so that the standard is met. It remains to be seen if these standards are even realistic to begin with and most likely the numbers will be adjusted to reflect reality. 



Ron

Musclecars are in demand. At the Detroit International Auto Show a couple weeks ago, there were massive crowds surrounding the ZR1 Vette, Shelby Mustang and all the Heavy Duty pick-ups, Hummers,Jeeps etc.Hardly anyone was paying attention to the little "green cars" except the media with their agenda to brainwash the masses. Real Americans still want to drive Real Cars. Ray

[firefighter3931]

Musclecars are in demand. At the Detroit International Auto Show a couple weeks ago, there were massive crowds surrounding the ZR1 Vette, Shelby Mustang and all the Heavy Duty pick-ups, Hummers,Jeeps etc.Hardly anyone was paying attention to the little "green cars" except the media with their agenda to brainwash the masses. Real Americans still want to drive Real Cars. Ray

I have to agree Ray.    Some folks will just pay extra to drive something that's not "politically correct" and that's their god given right as a taxpayer. 


There's lots of oil in the ground....the 2nd largest deposit is the world is in western Canada. Eventually the gov't will allow drilling and exploration out of necessity or their own personal greed. Face it....goverments thrive off taxes generated through the petroleum industry. They aren't about to cut their own throats. 

I do wish they'd show some balz and step on all the industrial polluters who dump zillions of tons of crap into the lakes, rivers and the atmosphere. Now that would take courage but it's really too much to expect from our so called leaders or should i say puppets. 


I read awhile back that the pollution produced by all industry in the province of Ontario in one day exceeds the emissions of all motorized vehicles in the province for an entire year.    If that's true then it's a startling relevation that we simply can't ignore. It's about time that Goverment start leading, fix the real  problems and quit penalizing the small guy. 


Rant off !



Ron

[kylem4711]

The greenies and their cronies are trying to mass hypnotize all of us with their BS. Unfortunately the masses seem to be buying into this baloney like Lemmings at a cliff.  Of course the politicians are only concerned with re-election and padding their outragous pensions so they are caving into the pressure and passing these rediculous laws. 

Here's a good read on the infamous Dr Suzuki. Interesting that 25 yrs ago he was concerned with an impending ice age and now he's worried that the planet is going to fry itself. C'mon dude....make up your fricken mind will ya ! 


http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/views/story.html?id=763de072-f46e-45fe-93d0-1e9735f8dfae&p=1


Musclecars are here to stay....there will allways be a market for them, inmo. The new standards apply to all vehicles in the manufacturers lineup....it's supposed to be an average fuel consumption figure for all vehicles under the umbrella. A few econobox diesels pulling 70mpg will offset the musclecar gas hogs so that the standard is met. It remains to be seen if these standards are even realistic to begin with and most likely the numbers will be adjusted to reflect reality. 



Ron

waaaaaaahhhh

baby...

[Mopar2Ya]

Anyone ever see that video of the electric motorcycle? The guy wrecked it, & it was/is fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pM1j2d1RMU

[Mike DC]

the 2nd largest deposit in the world is in western Canada

Huge Canadian oil deposits? 

You're not talking about the tar sands, are you?  It's true that there's a ton of oil up there, but the information is misleading.

Unfortunately that oil is in about the most cost-ineffective form it could possibly be in.  Most of that stuff is nearly worthless because it would take almost as much energy to get it out as it would provide.  And it's a raw mechanical issue that the industry is unlikely to ever find a decent solution for.  

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We could drill in Alaska.  Could. 

But I actually don't think it's such a bad idea to just leave it there for a while. 


So far we've been able to get foreign countries to sell us their (only) oil for less money than it would even cost to dig up the rest of our own.  Is that really such a bad situation to be in?  Considering that the long-term demand for this stuff is only gonna go up (and probably WAY up)? 

I think we might be better off tightening our belts some more right now and just sitting on that Alaskan oil for a few more decades.  The oil value is gonna climb.  Right now, most of the rest of the world is pulling every barrel out of the ground as quickly as they can get it done.  This situation won't last forever.  They've spent the last 100 years pumping only the easiest/cheapest oil first.

And it's not like the US is currently on track to end up very financially solvent in a few decades, either.  We might be pretty cash-strapped by then. 

[Shakey]

For a bunch of worthless oil, it is my understanding that the economy in Western Canada is booming because the United States is purchasing the majority of it.

I may have been mislead and I haven't done any research, I'm just going by what I hear and read in the news on a constand basis.

[Ghoste]

Then as someone who knows a couple of people working in Alberta, let me just say that it isn't only the media reporting on the boom going on in the worthless Canadian oil industry Shakey.  If it's truly a worthless deposit, there are a lot of people in on the conspiracy pretending to go out there and work.

[Shakey]

And who's giving them the money?   

[Ghoste]

Never saw the paycheques, but since my wife works for a large natural gas storage and transportation company that does a lot of business with petroleum companies in Alberta, I do know that the head office of the company that actually owns her company is in the USA. 


Any idea why our dollar is so high?

[Mike DC]

   
I didn't mean to imply that there's no worthwhile oil in Canada.  Not at all. 


I was just referring to the "Shale Oil" issue. 
It makes Canada's total amount of oil reserves in the ground look huge on paper.  But that type of oil is mixed in with sand/rock and cannot be extracted easily.  Extracting that oil from the rock material in mass quantities is like running extrude-honing sludge through all the pipes 24 hours a day.  Never gonna get very economical to get most of the oil because of the raw equipment depreciation that the process causes. 


There is certainly still some wortwhile oil being derived from that stuff (along with the rest of Canada's other oil wells).  But we'll probably never get anything like the total amount of oil that is theoretically in the ground in Canada.

 

[Ghoste]

I agree in principle but I think we all know it comes down to how much per barrel they can get for the stuff that makes the oil companies chase some areas and not others.

[mikesbbody]

mike, i saw a documentary about the "sand" oil you talk about they said it would not be economically viable "back in the day" when gas prices were @ 1$ a gallon however, now its looking like it could be possible and cost effective  for something thats not economically viable they sure have alot going on up there...

[1969chargerrtse]

Anyone ever see that video of the electric motorcycle? The guy wrecked it, & it was/is fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pM1j2d1RMU

Man, amazing video, hope the guy is o.k?  Makes my point very clear when I put up a few post a while back about electric cars blowing the doors off anything out there today including the most powerful piston motors.  I always said think of the electric cars like a slot car on the track.  I also commented on this is brand new technology, imagine further down the line?

[Ghoste]

mike, i saw a documentary about the "sand" oil you talk about they said it would not be economically viable "back in the day" when gas prices were @ 1$ a gallon however, now its looking like it could be possible and cost effective  for something thats not economically viable they sure have alot going on up there...

Not to mention that there has been a LOT going on up there for a very long time now.  I can't speak for the Albertans on here (Mangumcharger and Chryco Psycho come to mind) but I think it's pretty damned economically viable since the early 80's.  Not unlike the rest of the globe, have not the "greenies"  been one of the biggest holdups, after of course the price of crude?

[69_500]

So how many people on here buy into the whole theory that "Oil" is a limited natural resource? Anyone ever sit back and think of where the largest deposit of "Oil" is in the world?

The Middle east.

And what is "Oil"? Decaying fossil fuel.

Where in history do they say that the human civilization began?

Thats right the Middle East.

Over the course of history, where have the majority of the major wars taken place?

Thats right the Middle East.

Have the wars in that area ever ceased?

NOPE.

So isn't there a never ending supply of new bodies being added to the soil that will eventually become fossil fuels themselves?

[Mike DC]

Yeah, the oil is gonna replenish itself eventually. 

But the process takes so long that it's irrelevant.  With the oil/coal we're using right now, the continents were in different places the last time those plants/animals were alive.  This stuff is so useful to us because it's millions of years' worth of stored power that we can use in an instant.

----------------------------------------------------------------


I know the shale oil/tar sands are being commercialized more lately because of the sustained price increases of oil. 
I'm just saying that the ultimate amount of oil in Canada (and the US for that matter) is very deceptive because of the issue. 

All shale oil is not created equal either.  There isn't one single tipping point when all of it switches over to being commercially viable.  It's a rolling thing.  Oil could hit $200/barrel and we'd still be leaving a ton of that stuff in the ground.