torque boxes

[r73mopar]

this might be a silly ? but what exacly are torque boxes? i put 2x2 sub frame connectors in my 73 and now i here i should have put boxes in while i had the car apart. now it is on the street and i dont know worth putting boxes in

[doctorpimp]

As of now, no one makes torque boxes for 73+ B bodies.

[Nacho-RT74]

if there are torque boxes for 71, they fit the same to 74

[doctorpimp]

if there are torque boxes for 71, they fit the same to 74

No, they don't.  I have never tried, but a lot of the underside is defferent between early and late 3rd gens.  Different enough to not allow the torque boxes to fit properly and do what they were designed to do.  Same reason that subframe connectors don't fit between early and late...

Hey Nacho, where did you get your info from? 
Have you tried to install any in a late B?

Check out Auto Rust Tech's website.  They list torque boxes for 71-2 and none for 73-4 Charger.  I called them to inquire IF they would make some and they said "probably not".
Maybe Magnum Force or XV or someone good with metal, someday...

Here's info on them:
http://www.autorust.com/m_boxi.html

[The70RT]

this might be a silly ? but what exacly are torque boxes? i put 2x2 sub frame connectors in my 73 and now i here i should have put boxes in while i had the car apart. now it is on the street and i dont know worth putting boxes in

I just put some in......  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,26598.60.html

[Nacho-RT74]

area around the frame, where the front spring bracket fits is the same as far I know and in fact I THINK rear frame rails are the same. Didn't read, just compairing a 71 I saw below  and my 74

about listing parts, is the same about springs. 71/72 fits the same on 73/74, only diff are bushings itself but not eyelet where fits the bushing. And guide studs, however just listed to 71/72. You can fit them

The BIG diff between 71/72 and 73/74 are front frame rails, not rear ones.

on frame structure, from firewall to rear, all 71/74s are basicaly same except 74 the trunk floor, and where tranny cross member attchs, being that K mamber isolated too ( where the T bars mounts ) on 73/74.

However I can be wrong, 71/72 and 73/74 are the same on that area where torque box attaches.

[Rack]

I have a general idea of what they do, but just to be sure, what are torque boxes? What do they do and when is the best time to put them on your car? My car is dismantled right now - getting ready for media blast - would putting them on after media blast be best? Or do you need the weight of the car to be "normal" to put them on? Where do they go?

[doctorpimp]

Here's info on them:
http://www.autorust.com/m_boxi.html

Hi Rack,
Check out the link.  There are excerpts from MMuscle and MAction all about torque boxes.  They were factory in the Hemi cars.

[Goldfinger71]

I Have torque boxes in my R/T but my buddy with his 4spd RR doesn't have them..

[Rack]

Here's info on them:
http://www.autorust.com/m_boxi.html

Hi Rack,
Check out the link.  There are excerpts from MMuscle and MAction all about torque boxes.  They were factory in the Hemi cars.

Thanks, Doc. Sorry I didn't catch that before.

[doctorpimp]

Glad to help

[Rolling_Thunder]

Cars that for them were Hemi Cars, Some 4-speed 440 cars have been seen with them factory installed, and all verts.

I got some boxes for a 72 dart in the shop from ART and the fronts dont fit for ****. The rears also need to be trimmed quite a bit to fit. These are for an A-body though (none to my knowledge got Torque Boxes except verts which werent around in 72) so i guess that's just the issue with being an A-body.

Highly reccomended part though   

[r73mopar]

thanks for the info guys i will definly check that link and find out about73/74 fitmant

[Charger74]

Actually not sure what happened to his website but Harm's auto used to have them listed for 73/74 (3rd gens), but his website sucks now. 

[dukeboy_318]

area around the frame, where the front spring bracket fits is the same as far I know and in fact I THINK rear frame rails are the same. Didn't read, just compairing a 71 I saw below  and my 74

about listing parts, is the same about springs. 71/72 fits the same on 73/74, only diff are bushings itself but not eyelet where fits the bushing. And guide studs, however just listed to 71/72. You can fit them

The BIG diff between 71/72 and 73/74 are front frame rails, not rear ones.

on frame structure, from firewall to rear, all 71/74s are basicaly same except 74 the trunk floor, and where tranny cross member attchs, being that K mamber isolated too ( where the T bars mounts ) on 73/74.

However I can be wrong, 71/72 and 73/74 are the same on that area where torque box attaches.

yep, nachos right, i just put 71-72 series subframe connectors in my charger over the weekend, fit fine, dont know about the TQ boxes, havent tried those yet, getting there though.  i know i just ordered a 71-74 charger floor from paddock too, most of whats different between them is withthe front frames and suspenisons and the the trunk floor, just what ive read in the interchange manual. 

[AutoRust]

I have a general idea of what they do, but just to be sure, what are torque boxes? What do they do and when is the best time to put them on your car? My car is dismantled right now - getting ready for media blast - would putting them on after media blast be best? Or do you need the weight of the car to be "normal" to put them on? Where do they go?

We recently had a discussion on torque boxes on a local website, massmopar.com

http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1202440307/0#17

Good info.

Dave

[AutoRust]

Actually not sure what happened to his website but Harm's auto used to have them listed for 73/74 (3rd gens), but his website sucks now. 

Harms no longer sells the torque boxes. He sold the tooling. They fit 71-74. There all the same. He had the rear ones listed. I think You can now purchase the reproduction torque boxes from Rick Kreuziger Restorations, their website is : http://www.restorick.com/

 

[Troy]

Hey Dave, that's a great reply you made in that thread on Mass Mopars. Glad to see some explanation of the thought and engineering behind the products.
http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1202440307/0#6

Troy

[doctorpimp]

Hi Dave,
From your experience then, will your Late B body torque boxes fit in a Late Late B (73+) ?
Do you have any plans to start making them? 
I called you guys in '05 and have been watching your site from time to time and still nothing yet for us...

[AutoRust]

Hey Dave, that's a great reply you made in that thread on Mass Mopars. Glad to see some explanation of the thought and engineering behind the products.
http://www.massmopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1202440307/0#6

Troy

Thanks Troy.
I try not to over complicate it, but every time I read my replies I think I should have tried to explain it better.
But it does spell out what the story really is.

I think the more people are educated about them, then maybe the more people will buy them. I doesn't matter if you buy them from me, or Harms, or who ever is doing the stamping, there is room for everybody.
I bought some from Scott. very nice stampings. But guess what, we spent 8+ hours installing them. They did not just drop in place. As we all know, Ma Mopar was so good with tolerances.

Dave

[Rolling_Thunder]

Just wanted to clarify - I talked to Auto Rust and after discussing I wanted to say the parts were in fact good quality pieces - just these cars weren't built within tight tolerances back in the day and 40 years of being on the road doesn't help alignment of sheet metal -

I guess my initial analysis was a little excessive -    I would definately buy from ART again - hope noone got put off because of my little dilema   

[AutoRust]

Here is our position on the 73-74 B-body.
Our 71-72 subframe connectors are NOT a good fit. Here is how I determine that. The isolated subframe interferes with the alignment. If you wish to compromise, and install them on an angle, they fit right in. Personally I don't like that approach. Square is where your strength originates from. I always tell anyone thats installing connectors, whether there mine or anyone else's, make dam sure they are parallel to the rocker. Now I am not naive and realize its not always easy to accomplish that. However as with any structural modification, its only as good as you make it. I cant say they wont help if installed on an angle, and I cant say they will. 

The torque boxes are a different story. The rear boxes fit right in, no problem. It was our expectation that the fronts would also. We had a 73 Charger in the shop. I walked over to it, and could not seem to fit the front box in anywhere near what was needed to be considered a "good" fit. So we decided to make a set, based on the 73 body. Made a nice set, and installed them. A month later we got a call, from a previous customer in BC, Canada. Asked about 73-74 torque boxes. I jumped right in, sure, we have a set. So off they went. A month later he called, mumbling and grumbling, didn't fit, bad bend, out of alignment, cant use them unless modified, blah, blah, blah. He never did send me pictures, so I cant even be sure what went wrong, but based on his replies, I assumed it was the leading edge, where they join to the splash plate, the 16 gauge section that joins the rocker to the frame. His was on an angle that was way different then the way the torque box was bent. Was it a case of Ma Mopars wonderful tolerances again, or did we just screw them up that bad when we bent them. I still don't know for sure. So our approach has been to decline selling them, until we get another 73 or 74 in the shop, as we cant be sure they will fit your application.
Now, in our shop, when we get a panel or part that doesn't fit, we make it fit. I know a lot of people can, and will do that. BUT, if your shelling out your hard earned cash, I completely understand people getting pissed off if it don't fit.

Damed if I do, damed if I don't.

Dave

[Nacho-RT74]

as I stated, I still haven't found any diff between 71/72 and 73/73 from firewall to rear ( what does not mean it could be someone I haven't noticed  ) on unibody areas except on:

-T-bars crossmember being isolated on 73/74
-Front spring hanger JUST BECAUSE the bushing on earliers use a bigger bolt, so hole is bigger, however any bracket will fit on any year.
-J bolts to gas straps, JUST ON 74, being bolted in front of tank, not rear.
-74 trunk floor
-Of course, quarters and frame sections in relation with quarter window opening. HOWEVER, just some areas of quarter are diff... mainly front half. On rear half just the end of the body line and its curvature
-on 74, area where bolts the shoulder retractor.
-on 74, nut and side frames of roof, in relationship with shoulder belt hanger.

If there is another BIG diff I can't remember right now, maybe could it be some one unnoticeable that I can't remember right now.

Of course as mentioned, with isolated rear crossmember the Subframes will make a diff part.

[doctorpimp]

Thanks Dave!

Hopefully, someday a local 73 will roll into your shop.  You're a little far from me to go direct to you, but you never know...

[AutoRust]

Thanks Dave!
Hopefully, someday a local 73 will roll into your shop.  You're a little far from me to go direct to you, but you never know...

What I need is a local volunteer with a 74 B-body.
We had the 73 in here, but the guy that bought a set for his 74 had problems, so I need a test mule.

[dukeboy_318]

where are you located at,

[Charger1973]

I REALLY doubt you will find any difference between 73 and 74.  I havent compared them side by side but as far as I know nothing in that area should have changed. 

[AutoRust]

I REALLY doubt you will find any difference between 73 and 74.  I havent compared them side by side but as far as I know nothing in that area should have changed. 

I agree with that assessment. However the customer I sent a set to, from the ones designed off a 73, had a 74 and said he had problems installing them. I feel its best to be safe, and get a 74 in the shop and make a set. Then I can be sure what fits, and if any modifications are needed.
Our shop is located in Providence, Rhode Island. 1 hours drive south of Boston, 3 hour drive from the GW bridge in NYC.



Dave

[Fitz73Chrgr]

So is anyone making 73 subframe connectors? 

[doctorpimp]

magnumforce

http://www.magnumforce.com/store/detail.asp?ProductID=3108&CategoryID=19&BrandID=&Category=&SubCategory=&Search=&Page=

I have them, they look good and installed well (welded in)

[Fitz73Chrgr]

Any pics? 

Also, do any companies make the other style connectors, that are cut to fit the contour of the floorpans? 

[doctorpimp]

Any pics?

Also, do any companies make the other style connectors, that are cut to fit the contour of the floorpans?

Pics, I'll see what I can do...

[Hemidoug]

This is the torque box you are talking about. It is the part just ahead of where the front spring hanger is mounted to.

[hemihead]

I REALLY doubt you will find any difference between 73 and 74.  I havent compared them side by side but as far as I know nothing in that area should have changed. 

I agree with that assessment. However the customer I sent a set to, from the ones designed off a 73, had a 74 and said he had problems installing them. I feel its best to be safe, and get a 74 in the shop and make a set. Then I can be sure what fits, and if any modifications are needed.
Our shop is located in Providence, Rhode Island. 1 hours drive south of Boston, 3 hour drive from the GW bridge in NYC.



Dave

Another thing to consider is , did this customer have any automotive savvy ? Kind of like giving the most powerful computer in the world to someone who doesn't know how to turn it on . I have been around ( and under )  lots of 73 - 74 's . I would tend to lean more toward that wonderful Mopar tolerance .

[Fitz73Chrgr]

Any pics?
Also, do any companies make the other style connectors, that are cut to fit the contour of the floorpans?

Pics, I'll see what I can do...

No hurry, I'm just doing some research.  Just if and whenever you get a chance.  Thanks man. 

[AutoRust]

I REALLY doubt you will find any difference between 73 and 74.  I havent compared them side by side but as far as I know nothing in that area should have changed. 

I agree with that assessment. However the customer I sent a set to, from the ones designed off a 73, had a 74 and said he had problems installing them. I feel its best to be safe, and get a 74 in the shop and make a set. Then I can be sure what fits, and if any modifications are needed.
Our shop is located in Providence, Rhode Island. 1 hours drive south of Boston, 3 hour drive from the GW bridge in NYC.



Dave

Another thing to consider is , did this customer have any automotive savvy ? Kind of like giving the most powerful computer in the world to someone who doesn't know how to turn it on . I have been around ( and under )  lots of 73 - 74 's . I would tend to lean more toward that wonderful Mopar tolerance .

Now there is an interesting thought. Its very possible he did not have enough skills or ability to do it properly. However I tend to err on the side of caution. Untill we had a 73 or 74 in the shop, I am reluctant to advertise them as correct for that body. When we designed them, we felt that they would fit, no problem. Never sold a set, as we didnt know for sure. That guy called, I told him we wasnt sure. Maybe thats why he had a problem, maybe he had a doubt already in his mind, and "found" a fitment issue. I guess ya never know for sure.
Until I have one in the shop for further development, I would rather not claim they fit.


Dave.