please help me complete my 440 build . what other parts should i get ?

[rav440]

im going to be contacting an engine builder soon to have the 440 hot tanked and checked , have the forged crank polished and checked & the rods reconditioned . the rods should be 6 pack rods on my 73 440 hp
most likely if the cost isnt out of this world im going to have the 440 balanced .

my goal is to get around 425 horse power or better 

this is what i have so far . other than the basic stuff

.030 bore
# 346 2.14 / 1.81 mildly ported heads & mopar steel shim gaskets
crane hydrolic cam 471 / 286
edelbrock timing chan

so with tis combo im thinking of getting :

KEITH BLACK PISTONS  440 STEP DISH 1.8cc 909 # KB 146
holley street dominator or edelbrock CH4B intake
850 cfm carb
msd digital 6
msd 8546 distributor & 8.5 wires
id really like to use the HP stock exaust manifolds but im not sure if they will just choke the motor  in that case ill get headers

the gears are 3:55 sure grip
727 TF with shift kit & new clutchs and bands

what stall convertor should i get ?
what rocker arms & push rods should i get ?

does this combo sound right ?

thanks RANDY

[firefighter3931]

Randy, didn't your 440 have the speedpro 6-pack pistons in it allready ? 



Ron

[rav440]

Randy, didn't your 440 have the speedpro 6-pack pistons in it allready ?  :shruggy:



Ron

RON , yes it has flat top forged pistons "speedpro 6-pack pistons " but im worried i destroyed them by putting the extra valve relifs in them and threw the weight way off balance .  :shruggy:
but if you think they can be reusued , id be all for that i like where they sit in the hole i mic'd them at about .010-.015 in the hole plus that frees up  around $300.00  to spend on other goodies  :icon_smile_big:



let me know what you think .

thanks RANDY  :cheers:

[firefighter3931]

Those pistons are fine....don't sweat it one bit ! 

Just pull it apart and have the rods reconditioned with ARP rod bolts and have it balanced and run it 


Cam :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60303&autoview=sku

Converter :

https://www.coperacingtrans.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=245


Carb & adapter :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D67213&N=700+4294925239+4294839063+4294919007+400405+1051506943+4294902704+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D20%2D7&N=700+115&autoview=sku


Manifold : CH4B dual plane 



Ron

[rav440]

Those pistons are fine....don't sweat it one bit ! 

Just pull it apart and have the rods reconditioned with ARP rod bolts and have it balanced and run it 


Cam :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60303&autoview=sku

Converter :

https://www.coperacingtrans.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=245


Carb & adapter :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D67213&N=700+4294925239+4294839063+4294919007+400405+1051506943+4294902704+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D20%2D7&N=700+115&autoview=sku


Manifold : CH4B dual plane 



Ron

RON , isnt that cam is smaller than the CRANE i already have ?
what do you think the ballpark horse power would be with this combo ?

thanks RANDY 

[firefighter3931]

RON , isnt that cam is smaller than the CRANE i already have ?
what do you think the ballpark horse power would be with this combo ?

thanks RANDY 

Randy, that Crane cam has more duration but less lift. It will idle rougher and make less power than the voodoo cam i linked to above. With power brakes you want to keep the seat duration short to improve vacuum, idle quality and low end power.


Depending on how well the heads work and the quality of the machining...this combo should make in the 420hp/500tq range.



Ron

[rav440]

RON , isnt that cam is smaller than the CRANE i already have ?
what do you think the ballpark horse power would be with this combo ?

thanks RANDY 

Randy, that Crane cam has more duration but less lift. It will idle rougher and make less power than the voodoo cam i linked to above. With power brakes you want to keep the seat duration short to improve vacuum, idle quality and low end power.


Depending on how well the heads work and the quality of the machining...this combo should make in the 420hp/500tq range.



Ron

thanks RON  so with the VOODO cam  can i still use the combo on the heads

valves                P-4007942 P-4120579
crane springs      99839-16
crane retainers    99957-16



or what about the ENGLE cams that ive read you like ? any use in my build ?

[firefighter3931]

thanks RON  so with the VOODO cam  can i still use the combo on the heads

valves                P-4007942 P-4120579
crane springs      99839-16
crane retainers    99957-16



or what about the ENGLE cams that ive read you like ? any use in my build ?

Randy, i would have the heads looked over just to be safe. Those springs are listed for a SB chevy allthough they are the same dimension as a BB mopar. The seat pressure listed is for a 1.80 installed height and if your's was installed as per factory specs (1.85) then the spring seat pressure could be a little low. This is no big deal...it would just require a shim to increase the closed pressure. Other than that...those springs should work fine with a hydraulic cam. 


Spring specs :

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=99839-16&lvl=3&prt=122


The Engle K56 is an excellent cam...i'd say it's a tossup between it and the 268 VooDoo stick i linked to above. 



Ron

[rav440]

RON , thanks for all of your help and info i really appreciate it and i value your expert opinion 

should i strickly gofor the PROFORM carb or is BG DEMONs , NUYTTEN , BIGS , or DIVINCI " not sure if they make a carb that small "  OK ?

would a DIVINCI 830 CFM be to big ?

thanks RANDY

[firefighter3931]

RON , thanks for all of your help and info i really appreciate it and i value your expert opinion 

should i strickly gofor the PROFORM carb or is BG DEMONs , NUYTTEN , BIGS , or DIVINCI " not sure if they make a carb that small "  OK ?

would a DIVINCI 830 CFM be to big ?

thanks RANDY

Randy, i like the Proform carbs because they work so well and don't cost a fortune.  Look at the quickfuel 4150 double pumpers...they all use Proform main bodies but cost several hundred dollars more. I won't pay a lot of extra dough just to have a "quickfuel" label on my carb. 

As for sizing ; the Proform 750 will flow 830 cfm allthough it is rated at 750. This is because the main body has radiused venturies as compared to a standard holley ( pn 4779) 750 dp'er. This is also accomplished while still using the smaller 750 baseplate. The reason that is important is because this is a street car and you want lots of velocity to keep the throttle response crisp and snappy. This carb accomplishes both tasks well...excellent low speed off idle response and enough flow to keep the motor happy at full throttle.

I have one on my motor sothat should tell you how much i like them. On the dyno it made more power than a holley 850 dp'er and was just a few hp down from a 950 hp race series Holley carb that costs allmost twice the price. 

A few members here have made the jump to Proform and haven't looked back.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,35989.0.html


As for the other carbs you asked about ; i'm sure they work descent allthough i'm not a demon fan (won't run one) but they usually cost a lot more.



Ron

[rav440]

PROFORM it is then 

[firefighter3931]

PROFORM it is then 

Trust me....you'll LUV it ! 



Ron

[rav440]

what about connecting rods . i have yet to look at mine but the book says they should be 6pak rods 
the good DOC sudjests going to the "LY" rods .
here is aset  i found . should i go for them ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110218960109&rd=1

[firefighter3931]

what about connecting rods . i have yet to look at mine but the book says they should be 6pak rods 
the good DOC sudjests going to the "LY" rods .
here is aset  i found . should i go for them ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110218960109&rd=1

Randy, post a pic of your harmonic balancer. If it has 6-pack rods the balancer will have a small offset weight welded onto the front of it. Your's might have LY rods allready because the motor was rebuilt before...could be anything in there. 

That is a good deal though for a set of reworked LY rods. I think if i was going to upgrade...a set of aftermarket H-Beams would be the ticket.



Ron

[rav440]

what about connecting rods . i have yet to look at mine but the book says they should be 6pak rods 
the good DOC sudjests going to the "LY" rods .
here is aset  i found . should i go for them ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110218960109&rd=1

Randy, post a pic of your harmonic balancer. If it has 6-pack rods the balancer will have a small offset weight welded onto the front of it. Your's might have LY rods allready because the motor was rebuilt before...could be anything in there. 

That is a good deal though for a set of reworked LY rods. I think if i was going to upgrade...a set of aftermarket H-Beams would be the ticket.



Ron

RON , with a new set of H beam rods will they need balanced also when i get the 440 balanced ?
here is a pic of the balancer im not even sure if its any good . last year i had the runner up on a floor jack and before i could get the jack stands under it the car slipped off of the jack the crank pulley took part of the hit on the way down but mainly the radiator took most of the major damage . is there a way to have a balancer checked ? 





here are a few pics of the 346 heads i got .



















thanks RANDY 

[Runner]

did the valves kiss all the pistons and if so why?. 

[rav440]

did the valves kiss all the pistons and if so why?. 

RUNNER , long story short . i was going with a maxed out ported set of 516s 2.14 & 1.88 valves and a HUGE cam . just wanted to be sure the valves didnt hit the pistons . 

[firefighter3931]

RON , with a new set of H beam rods will they need balanced also when i get the 440 balanced ?
here is a pic of the balancer im not even sure if its any good . last year i had the runner up on a floor jack and before i could get the jack stands under it the car slipped off of the jack the crank pulley took part of the hit on the way down but mainly the radiator took most of the major damage . is there a way to have a balancer checked ? 



thanks RANDY 

Randy, that looks like a standard 440 steel crank balancer for an internally balanced engine. That particular unit would be used with the LY rods and the 2355 pistons you have in the motor.


The aftermarket H-beams will balance internally just like the stock LY's because they weigh almost the same. I would have your rods looked over first before making a decision....if they're in good shape just have them reworked and ARP rod bolts installed. Have the whole assembly balanced and run it. As long as you keep the RPM's reasonable it will last forever. With a hydraulic cam you won't be spinning it past 6k anyway and the balancing job will make it rev nice and clean.

The machine shop can verify neutral balance on your dampner or you could just buy a new one from Summit.



Ron

[rav440]

RON , that is what ill do then  how do the heads look ?

thanks RANDY 

[firefighter3931]

RON , that is what ill do then  how do the heads look ?

thanks RANDY 

The heads look good....just some mild surface rust. I would have them hot tanked and have the shop check the spring pressures while they're at it. As i mentioned earlier it could need some shims to increase the seat pressure....have it looked at and you can sleep better at night. 


Ron

[rav440]

RON , that is what ill do then  how do the heads look ?

thanks RANDY 

The heads look good....just some mild surface rust. I would have them hot tanked and have the shop check the spring pressures while they're at it. As i mentioned earlier it could need some shims to increase the seat pressure....have it looked at and you can sleep better at night. 


Ron

i like to sleep good at night   

[rav440]

what type of ROCKER ARM assembly should i use ? is STOCK shafts and arms fine ? 

[firefighter3931]

what type of ROCKER ARM assembly should i use ? is STOCK shafts and arms fine ? 

Sure, the stock stuff will work great. 

No need for an adjustable valvetrain with that VooDoo cam. 



Ron

[rav440]

what type of ROCKER ARM assembly should i use ? is STOCK shafts and arms fine ? 

Sure, the stock stuff will work great. 

No need for an adjustable valvetrain with that VooDoo cam. 



Ron

man RON are you fast on the reply  so i dont  need to use the "DUCK TAIL " rockers ? just regular old rocker arms ?

here are a few other items im thinking about getting  to further along the build .

Cloyes Gear 9-3525TX9
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CLO%2D9%2D3525TX9&FROM=MG

Lunati Performance Replacement Pushrods LUN-83718
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-83718

LUNATI VOODOO 1.500" VALVE SPRINGS KIT #73815K4LUN
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130219792324&rd=1

LUNATI BB CHRYSLER 268/276 VOODOO CAM & LIFTER #60303LK 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=023&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=360055250425&rd=1

let me know what you think when you get a chance .

thanks RANDY

[SeattleCharger]

     great thread, tons of info, specific parts links,  and I like all the pics you put in Randy, thanks,    saved this thread into my engine build info  thread collection   

[firefighter3931]

what type of ROCKER ARM assembly should i use ? is STOCK shafts and arms fine ? 

Sure, the stock stuff will work great. 

No need for an adjustable valvetrain with that VooDoo cam. 



Ron

man RON are you fast on the reply  so i dont  need to use the "DUCK TAIL " rockers ? just regular old rocker arms ?

here are a few other items im thinking about getting  to further along the build .

Cloyes Gear 9-3525TX9
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CLO%2D9%2D3525TX9&FROM=MG

Lunati Performance Replacement Pushrods LUN-83718
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-83718

LUNATI VOODOO 1.500" VALVE SPRINGS KIT #73815K4LUN
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130219792324&rd=1

LUNATI BB CHRYSLER 268/276 VOODOO CAM & LIFTER #60303LK 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=023&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=360055250425&rd=1

let me know what you think when you get a chance .

thanks RANDY

Randy,

Stock rockers/shafts are fine as long as they are not showing excessive wear.


I'm gonna save you some money....hope you don't mind 


Pushrods : http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hy440chmo.html

Timing chain & gears : http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D2109&autoview=sku

Valve springs : http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D911%2D16&N=700+115&autoview=sku


* The cam kit is $195 at summit so it's more expensive than your e-bay link....but check on shipping to compare the difference.


The Mancini 5/16 pushrods are heavy wall and chrome moly....ideal for your setup. The Comp Magnum timing sets are excellent quality and those chains hold their tension as good as any i've seen out there and better than most. The Comp 911 valvespring will drop right onto your heads with no mods, fit your retainers like a glove and work perfectly with that VooDoo grind.



Ron

[rav440]

thanks for taking the time to check that stuff out and comming up with a better plan  RON 

[firefighter3931]

thanks for taking the time to check that stuff out and comming up with a better plan  RON 

You're welome bud....now with the cash you saved take the wife out for a nice meal and stock up the beer fridge so you don't get thirsty while you're wrenching. 


Ron

[rav440]

thanks for taking the time to check that stuff out and comming up with a better plan  RON 

You're welome bud....now with the cash you saved take the wife out for a nice meal and stock up the beer fridge so you don't get thirsty while you're wrenching. 


Ron

will do