'73 Charger - 318 to 400 Do I need a new K Frame?

[doctorpimp]

Hello everyone!
The title says it all:
I want a BB in my SB car what do I need to change?

[my73charger]

I believe you will just need new motor mounts.  K member should be the same for both.

[RD]

I believe you will just need new motor mounts.   K member should be the same for both.

negative ghostrider.  the k members are different.  you either have two options if the vehicle is a 73 and up:

1)  replace the k member with a bb k member

2) buy the schumacher swap kit

Make sure you get the correct oil pan (971) and pickup.  You may want to replace the torsion bars (but not necessarily needed).  Unless you have a SB 727, you will need a new driveshaft, the driveshaft on a 727 tranny is exactly 4 1/8" shorter than that of a 904 tranny.

Hope this helps.

[my73charger]

I stand corrected. 

[RD]

I stand corrected.  

please dont take it personally, we are all here to learn.  and if it wasnt for a direct comparison of the two k members earlier this year, I would have said the same thing you just did.

[doctorpimp]

2) buy the schumacher swap kit

Make sure you get the correct oil pan (971) and pickup.   You may want to replace the torsion bars (but not necessarily needed).   Unless you have a SB 727, you will need a new driveshaft, the driveshaft on a 727 tranny is exactly 4 1/8" shorter than that of a 904 tranny.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!!!
I just bought the Schumacher kit. 
I was planning to get a new chrome molly d/s anyways.
What exact oil pan is the 971?  Will a MP BB oilpan fit with the SB K frame and Schumacer kit?

[RD]

yeah it will, i just didnt know if you were going with a stock pan or not. 

[doctorpimp]

I am actually going for a 499 stroked 400. MTF...
Insofar as torsion bars are concerned, 73 and up bars are different than other 3rd gens right?  The bars from MP for the 68-72 won't fit, or will they?
I remember reading on the old d-c site that the 73-74 cars had the same T bars for all V8's is this true?

[RD]

I am actually going for a 499 stroked 400. MTF...
Insofar as torsion bars are concerned, 73 and up bars are different than other 3rd gens right?   The bars from MP for the 68-72 won't fit, or will they?
I remember reading on the old d-c site that the 73-74 cars had the same T bars for all V8's is this true?

the torsion bars are based on the size of the motor.  as far as their particular fit on a model year, i cannot tell, have not had to replace them on anything earlier than a 73.  BB generally had larger diameter torsion bars, and the smaller the engine went, the size in diameter diminished also.

[Nacho-RT74]

about TB... Original Mopar parts catalog says same TB to all engines since 73... only different suspension part on catalog by engine size is sway bars... but anyway is better change it for a new and bigger one.

K members... there are members of the board ( the old one LOL ) that have installed BB on SB K members without change it, only using the right engine mounts, no special kits, the stock ones... even here people have installed SB on BB K members ( BB parts are becoming on some impossible to find so people make that change.. 318s are the most popular engine here ). But is true and have been proved by members with both k members kind about dissaligment between engine mounts on one of the K members kind, don't remember which one. Is aparently almost unnoticeable.

note appart... another difference beside the BB and SB Chargers is the inner passenger fender, BBs have a GIANT opening covered with a rubber matt, instead the small shield to get access to suspension

[doctorpimp]

Thanks Nacho!
I remember your username from the old site (I was a member for only a month and visited briefly.  I was busy during that time with the military.)
When it comes to getting a bigger TB, who makes them for our 73+ cars?
I have a set of .96 MP bars for the 68-72 cars I don't know if they'll work on my car, has anyone tried them for the late 3rd gens?
BTW - Did I waste money on that Schumacher kit?

[RD]

BTW - Did I waste money on that Schumacher kit?

no you did not, believe me, i am not making this up to make me sound like a tech guru either.  The 73 and up SB k frames engine mount receptacles are located nonsymmetrically.  The driver side mount is around 9/16" closer to the radiator support than the passenger side mount.  The engine mounts on a SB are at different areas on the k member.  The BB k member, the mounts are symmetrical and are located the same distance from the radiator support (i measured them).

You "can" fit a BB on a SB 73 and up K frame, but the torque you are placing on the motor mounts and trans mount are definitely (IMO, not stated through thorough testing) going to wear your mounts quicker than if you would use the swap kit from schumacher or use a BB k member.

Mounting a BB to a SB k frame is like putting a bend on your pencil, granted its not going to break with a lil tension, but there is stress that is there because of the mismatch.  This is stress that was not designed for by the manufacturer so it is up to the user to determine if its good or bad.  I state that in the long run, it will cause more maintenance.

The person who has put a 440 in a SB k frame is a friend of mine, and now he has a BB k frame that he will put in its place and remove the SB k frame just for the reasons I stated above.  He even knows that it is not the way to go in the long term.

[doctorpimp]

BTW - Did I waste money on that Schumacher kit?

no you did not, believe me, i am not making this up to make me sound like a tech guru either.  

The person who has put a 440 in a SB k frame is a friend of mine, and now he has a BB k frame that he will put in its place and remove the SB k frame just for the reasons I stated above.   He even knows that it is not the way to go in the long term.

Thanks again RD.
Will that Schumacher kit last the long term as well, or should I try to find a BB K?

[RD]

it will last, easier then replacing a k member too!

[doctorpimp]

it will last, easier then replacing a k member too!

Cheers!

[Nacho-RT74]

I completelly agre with RD... as I said It is somehow possible without change or buy anything speciall, BUT never said IS the right way... the reasons are what he already explained.

Mopar parts dealers catalog lists 5 different K members for B bodies, making reference to a day like was a change from there, but MAYBE just because was a part number update.

TBs... where to buy... buddy I'm not in USA. I think just make a quick search about suspension dealers and check.

If you decide to change K members instead the engine mounts to get original parts and look... notice that any 73 and later B body use the same ( coronet and satellite includidng station wagons, RR, later monacos, I think also magnums ).

[doctorpimp]

Thanks again Nacho.

I remembered that you were in S America (Venezuela isn't it?).  I'm not in the US either (Canada).
I thought you might know of an online retailer or mail order place that you may have bought TB's from.
The search is on...

[Nacho-RT74]

well you are closer LOL...

[73 Charger 440]

Thanks again Nacho.

I remembered that you were in S America (Venezuela isn't it?).   I'm not in the US either (Canada).
I thought you might know of an online retailer or mail order place that you may have bought TB's from.
The search is on...

Torsion Bars should be available at places such as P-S-T and P-S-C. http://www.p-s-t.com/ and http://www.performancesuspension.com/ .

[my73charger]

I stand corrected. 

please dont take it personally, we are all here to learn.  and if it wasnt for a direct comparison of the two k members earlier this year, I would have said the same thing you just did.

Oh know, I am not offended.  I love to learn. Its all good.

[moparguy01]

BTW - Did I waste money on that Schumacher kit?

no you did not, believe me, i am not making this up to make me sound like a tech guru either.  The 73 and up SB k frames engine mount receptacles are located nonsymmetrically.  The driver side mount is around 9/16" closer to the radiator support than the passenger side mount.  The engine mounts on a SB are at different areas on the k member.  The BB k member, the mounts are symmetrical and are located the same distance from the radiator support (i measured them).

You "can" fit a BB on a SB 73 and up K frame, but the torque you are placing on the motor mounts and trans mount are definitely (IMO, not stated through thorough testing) going to wear your mounts quicker than if you would use the swap kit from schumacher or use a BB k member.

Mounting a BB to a SB k frame is like putting a bend on your pencil, granted its not going to break with a lil tension, but there is stress that is there because of the mismatch.  This is stress that was not designed for by the manufacturer so it is up to the user to determine if its good or bad.  I state that in the long run, it will cause more maintenance.

The person who has put a 440 in a SB k frame is a friend of mine, and now he has a BB k frame that he will put in its place and remove the SB k frame just for the reasons I stated above.  He even knows that it is not the way to go in the long term.

im the guy who put a 440 on a sb k frame. yes it worked, but it had a strange Ujoint angle to it due to being offset slightly. yes it did work though. but i can about guarantee that it would chew through ujoints pretty quick. hence why im swapping the K's.

Dobas also have the right k frame.....

[Old School]

Is it different for 74's ? I bought a 74 that was originally a 318 car but the guy had a 440 in it (I didn't get the car with the 440 ) The motor mounts look offset on the k member but so do the mounts on the block. 74 400 block. So do I also have to
change the k member ? I have one but just didn't plan on doing it any time soon.

[RD]

no difference between 73's and 74's.

[Nacho-RT74]

beside the K member and engine mounts stuff you need...

.all miscelaneous parts' brackets for BB/RB engines.
-change or modify engine wiring harness.
-BB radiator.
-new or modify exhaust pipes to match with manifolds.
-Of course, tranny to BB/RB.
-driveshaft to new drivetrain combo.
-recomend as minimun, 8 3/4 axle.