CAP Tubular K-frame

[71charger_fan]

Anyone use, or know anyone that has used one of these? My K-frame, to put it mildly, is a bit banged up. This looks like a nice product to replace what's beat up, maybe remove some weight, and keep the stock suspension.

http://www.capautoproducts.com/Tubular_K_Frame.html

[Mopar2Ya]

It looks like a very interesting setup. It looks like the same one Mancini is selling?
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/tuk1.html

[71charger_fan]

Same item, same price. I might just go for it. Shipping costs might decide the issue as to where I buy it if I do. No one lists '71 B-bodies, but they have the same part number K-frame from the factory as an E-body so the E-body piece should be a bolt in.

[Mopar2Ya]

I really like the whole setup. It states the LC's are twice as strong.  & the SR's don't use bushings. Aren't '71 b bodies the same as '70? IIRC '72 was the yr they changed?
Did you notice the slots where the LC's mount? I'm guessing so ride height can be changed?

[71charger_fan]

I'd have to double check the Mopar parts book, but they list separate part numbers for the E-bodies and the '70 and older B-bodies on the Mancini website.

[Mike DC]

   

Those setups look promising, but I'd like to see some real numbers. 
Right now I see a bunch of blanket statements of "new is better than old" without much specific data behind it. 



It wouldn't take much work to make a little chart on the website comparing the weights of the new pieces against the old ones. 

And do it part-for-part please.  I don't just want numbers for the whole new & old setup without specifics.  (The stock power steering setup alone probably totals another 30 pounds against a modern manual R/P setup.  Is that the only area that actually produces a significant weight loss?)



And how are they comparing it to "twice as strong as stock?"  Did they actually twist a stock K-frame until it broke or something?

      

[FJMG]

And how are they comparing it to "twice as strong as stock?"  Did they actually twist a stock K-frame until it broke or something?

    Sounds like marketing, if the new item is half the weight of the old and carries the same load then the theoretical capability per unit weight is double.

    I have often argued that if you take the claim "twice as strong as stock" literally then imagine how much more weight can be reduced if you made it "as strong as stock"!!

[Sinister68]

Be forewarned:  It took CAP 1 full month to finally get me the correct driver's side tubular LCA.  I had to send back 2 different LCA's before I got the correct part. 

[71charger_fan]

Weight removal is the least of my priorities. I don't know if I'd bother with the control arms or just keep my stockers. Although it would be nice to have all new parts.

[Sinister68]

I just thought you should know that it might take them a few tries to get you the right parts. 

[Mopar2Ya]

I just thought you should know that it might take them a few tries to get you the right parts. 

Once you got all the right parts, did you like the setup? Is it a quality piece(pieces)? Did it install w/o hassle & perform well? TY.

[71charger_fan]

They've been quite helpful in deciphering their offerings and I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on ordering a complete package with upper and lower control arms. $2400 powder coated in the color of my choice.

[71charger_fan]

I went ahead and ordered the complete kit. Now I'll just have to wait and see if I just wasted this year's car budget or not.

[zerfetzen]

I'm very interested in their whole setup, including rack and pinion.  I'm hoping somebody chimes in with experience with the k-frame before I get my money together...

[71charger_fan]

I won't see it until after it's installed. I sure hope they remember to take photos of the project. As of now, I should be back in the U.S. in time for Carlisle, so I should have the car there. By then it should have its new k-frame, Schumacher headers, and Pypes exhaust. I'm thinking of ordering a TCI streetfighter trans for it since the labor to swap that will be minimal since the trans has to come out of the car anyway.

[d72hemi]

any updates? I am also looking at this setup.

[71charger_fan]

All the parts have been delivered to the shop that's doing the install. I went with a Cope transmission. I'm stuck in Pakistan until mid-May, then I'll be back in Egypt until late June. I won't get back to Maryland to see the car until then. He told me about ten days ago that he should get my car on the rack in 2 or 3 weeks. So it shouldn't be long until I have some real feedback. The only thing that made me really have to think was that the k-frame has no provision for sway bar. CAP will do that for you if you ask. I decided to have the shop doing the install handle that, even though they'll have to grind some of the powder coat to do it.

[71charger_fan]

This is where the k-frame swap will be done, hopefully, once they get started they'll post photos.

http://www.fastlanefabrications.com/index.php

[71charger_fan]

K-frame is in and the suspension parts were supposed to go in yesterday. The only snag was they sent the wrong motor mounts. I e-mailed CAP and asked them to call the shop. They did, got the explanation of what was needed vs. what was shipped and the correct parts are already on the way. I don't mind when little mistakes are made, as long as the company steps up and makes it right. As long as my wife never figures out how much I've spent on this project, I will live to enjoy it. New k-frame, control arms, Moog suspension parts, Schumacher headers, Pypes exhaust, Cope Racing transmission, driver's side floor. Now that I think of it, I don't want to know how much I've spent.

[71charger_fan]

New K-frame

[71charger_fan]

Old K-frame

[71charger_fan]

Installed except for sway bar.

[71charger_fan]

By the way, those are the dreaded, much maligned, taller spindles. People that were born at the time I installed them are probably licensed drivers now. Never a problem.

[71charger_fan]

My new CRT-built 727, because I needed something shiny to make the engine look even shabbier than it already did.

[71charger_fan]

I finally got to see the car. The front suspension looks great.

[dkn1997]

utilizes the Facotry mounts, Factory steering, and Factory mounting positions

I gotta ask...... why?

I'd rather pony up th extra cash and get an alterkation. A ton of real world feedback from people running it, dump the T bars for header clearance, rack & pinion...

even if you K is banged up, decent used ones are dirt cheap.  I gave a real nice one away a few years ago.  you can also get tubular uppers, and all that other stuff for a stock K member.  you can weld up a stock K for more strength too, not very difficult or expensive.

[Mike DC]

 
The AlterKtion deal loses about 1/3rd of the total suspension travel distance though.  And rubber-to-poly is another decision that not everyone agrees about. 


The AlterKtion kit seems like a very good item for what it's trying to do.  I'm just saying it's not everything for everyone's purposes. 

[71charger_fan]

I looked at the Alterktion and wasn't really comfortable with the attachment of the LCAs. It's probably plenty strong, but appears to be set up in single shear.

[dkn1997]

could you elaborate on single shear? I don't know what that is.. I also wasn't aware about the loss of suspension travel. how would that loss effect actual driving?  alter K is one of my long term pipe dreams for my charger, that's why I am asking.

[71charger_fan]

Look at the upper control arm mounting on your charger. The bolts are supported at each end. That's double shear. If you have a 3/8" piece of threaded rod sticking out of a wall you can hang x number of pounds on it before it fails. That's single shear. If you have a bracket supporting the end of the rod, you can hang a lot more weight on the same rod because it's now in double shear.

[Mike DC]

             

The suspesion travel issue probably isn't major for most people. 

The factory Charger's front end has as much as 8-9" of travel when you really compress the rubber bumpstops both directions, whereas the AlterKtion only has 6" I think.  But most of that loss is probably in the tall/droop extension from the looks of things. 



And the Charger's factory 8-9" number is really a ton by modern standards, especially for the front end.  Six inches is fine for modern American paved roads.  Some sports cars these days have as little as 4 inches.

   

[Mopar2Ya]

Are there any updates as to whether this CAP setup is much better than a factory reinforced K-frame? How many member here have the CAP K-frame or other parts? Any known problems/failures?

[Steve P.]

I looked at the CAP "K" member a few years ago at the MATS. I was impressed with the welding and a few of the parts they had there. I believe they were really in their infant days when I saw what they had because I asked them if they were planning on a rack and pinion system and the owner answered NO..  He said: why would you want it? So of course I gave him the many reasons. Weight, front steer, space for a longer pan so you could have big volume and not drag the ground, close ratio.  I think I left him scratching his head.. Shortly after I think Ron, (or someone from the site), told me he was over at CAP and basically asked the same questions with the same reasons...  NOw I see they have built a "K" with R&P... I wonder what spindles they use??

I have also seen the Alter-K-Tion up close and can tell you that it is a damn nice unit. The only thing I don't like about the Alter-K is the way the spindle arm is extended for the tie rod end.  I guess it works, but to me it looks kind of hokey.

I would like to see the side by side comparo of all the "K" members on the market now and reallly know which is the best and why...


My .02

[Steve P.]

Any more news on your install??   Likes and dislikes??     

[71charger_fan]

I was home for a while and got to enjoy it. I'm glad I did it. No regrets. The front strut bars groan a bit sometimes, but, when you take out the bushings, that's going to happen. I'll probably be back for a few days in May for my daughter's graduation and hope to get a chance to put some more miles on it then. I had it at Carlisle this past summer. I've since added a set of Dr. Diff rear disk brakes to the car. I'll probably repaint it and redo the interior one more time and that'll be it, barring accidents. The next time anything major is done to it will probably be by the next owner after it's sold at my estate sale. Hopefully way in the future.