Heath Ledger found dead this afternoon

[TruckDriver]

I just heard that on the radio. The only reason I mentioned it is because he plays the Joker in the new Batman movie coming out. He was only 28. Cause of death, unknown at this time.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080122/ap_on_en_mo/obit_ledger

[bordin34]

They said they found sleeping pills next to his body. Just saw it on the news.

[hutch]

Brokeback Mountain boy?  Maybe it was pain pills from not having a stunt double on the brokeback movie?

[Ponch ®]

Brokeback Mountain boy?  Maybe it was pain pills from not having a stunt double on the brokeback movie?

I doubt it...he was the "top".

[694spdRT]

I liked him in A Knights Tale.

[Arthu®]

Brokeback Mountain boy?  Maybe it was pain pills from not having a stunt double on the brokeback movie?

Is that supposed to be funny?

That's sad, way too young at 28. We'll probably find out soon what really was the cause of death.

Arthur

[400/6/PAC]

28 is Way to young no matter what the cause. RIP

[moparstuart]

  he was good in the patriot too

[TUFCAT]

He was doing some major drugs, plus his old lady split last September with their new daughter.  He paid the price for being a gay cowboy in a movie.....I guess all the jokes must have really gotten to him, plus all the other emotional baggage ?   

[chargerboy69]

  he was good in the patriot too

That is a great movie. I am really looking forward to the new Batman this summer.

That is really to bad.

[hutch]

Brokeback Mountain boy?  Maybe it was pain pills from not having a stunt double on the brokeback movie?

Is that supposed to be funny?

That's sad, way too young at 28. We'll probably find out soon what really was the cause of death.

Arthur

I kind of liked it.  Not a big fan of his and dont care about how young he was and we tend to like our cowboys stright where I am from.

[mikesbbody]

I heard it was drugs too

[Mike DC]

 
RIP.  It's surprising because he didn't have the public image of being some totally reckless self-destructing addict.  It's not like this was Lindsay Lohan or Britney or someone.



Check this out.  It's a 6-minute chunk of the next Batman movie (with Heath Ledger as the Joker).  Looks pretty badass, actually.  It's a robbery scene that feels straight out of "Heat." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3b__zRQerc

 

[bull]

Hmmm. Did anyone see this one coming? I would have expected Britney to be the next celebrity to go, and now I bet she's going to be pissed off that Ledger took some of the media attention away.

I think most Hollywood types believe Brokeback was a good career move for Ledger and Gyllenhaal but I don't think many people on the outside necessarily agree.

[skip68]

I am so sad!!!!!! Just heard about it on the news, and figured someone would post about it!

Yeah, ....he took a serious risk making the film Broke Back Mountain, but I think he was brave taking that role! He was at the top of his game when he took that role, when other top actors would have been too concerned about rumors/tabloids/criticisms. I love when an actor actually has a mind and a backbone to defend their work!!!!! AND HE DID!!!!! I love all the movies he was in, and this is a tragic loss! Bashing his name is very inappropriate!!!! R.I.P. Heath!

Mrs.Skip68

[Ponch ®]

Hmmm. Did anyone see this one coming? 

NO! Otherwise I'd have had him in my list for a Death Pool I play in. Man, those 72 points would have come in handy...

[Afflyer]

The most tragic thing about this, is he leaves behind a beautiful little two year old girl.  To me, that is the saddest thing about his death- no matter how it occured.

I thought his role in "Monster's Ball" was incredible.

RIP young man.  RIP.

Bradley

[Forza]

Man he was one of my favorite actors too. Hutch who cares if he played a gay cowboy, it's just a movie grow up.

Rest in peace Heath.

[derailed]

Hutch who cares if he played a gay cowboy, it's just a movie grow up.

and a good movie as well, may he RIP

[hutch]

Grow up?  You are talking to a guy with a logo that reads " I support single moms" named Hutch on a car web site.  I am as far from growing up as I can get.  And thats coming from a 40 year old red neck that still loves fart jokes and seeing people get kicked in the nuts on TV.

Tragic is being 28 and then getting killed by a drunk driver at a red light.  This is just some dumb kid that had it all and blew it.  Screw em.

[hemi68charger]

The most tragic thing about this, is he leaves behind a beautiful little two year old girl.  To me, that is the saddest thing about his death- no matter how it occured.

I thought his role in "Monster's Ball" was incredible.

RIP young man.  RIP.

Bradley

I agree... Poor Matilda,,, Poor girl will only know him via movies.........

T

[TK73]

This is just some dumb kid that had it all and blew it.

Like Cobain...

[moparstuart]

This is just some dumb kid that had it all and blew it.

Like Cobain...

or owen wilson ?  he tried anyway    people with millions and cant find happyness

   They need to buy chargers like us !!!

[hutch]

This is just some dumb kid that had it all and blew it.

Like Cobain...

or owen wilson ?  he tried anyway    people with millions and cant find happyness

   They need to buy chargers like us !!!

Bingo buddy. 

[dkn1997]

I really liked him as an actor, and it's a shame when any 28 year old kid dies.  I really hope that it was some sort of accident. and if it wasn't, at least he did not off the wife and kid too like so many losers seem to be fond of doing these days.

[Brock Samson]

I don't understand why a 28 year old at the top of his game would be found surrounded by pills, was he unhealthy?.. 

[moparstuart]

I don't understand why a 28 year old at the top of his game would be found surrounded by pills, was he unhealthy?.. 

family now claims he had  pneumonia

[skip68]

I don't understand why a 28 year old at the top of his game would be found surrounded by pills, was he unhealthy?.. 

WRONG<WRONG<WRONG!!!!!!He was not found "Surrounded By Pills!" There just was a prescription bottle of sleeping pills "IN" his room!!! People need to just wait and get the correct info instead of jumping to their own conclusions!!!!!

Grow up? You are talking to a guy with a logo that reads " I support single moms" named Hutch on a car web site. I am as far from growing up as I can get. And thats coming from a 40 year old red neck that still loves fart jokes and seeing people get kicked in the nuts on TV.

Tragic is being 28 and then getting killed by a drunk driver at a red light. This is just some dumb kid that had it all and blew it. Screw em.

Mrs.Skip68

[moparstuart]

I don't understand why a 28 year old at the top of his game would be found surrounded by pills, was he unhealthy?.. 

WRONG<WRONG<WRONG!!!!!!He was not found "Surrounded By Pills!" There just was a prescription bottle of sleeping pills "IN" his room!!! People need to just wait and get the correct info instead of jumping to their own conclusions!!!!!

Grow up? You are talking to a guy with a logo that reads " I support single moms" named Hutch on a car web site. I am as far from growing up as I can get. And thats coming from a 40 year old red neck that still loves fart jokes and seeing people get kicked in the nuts on TV.

Tragic is being 28 and then getting killed by a drunk driver at a red light. This is just some dumb kid that had it all and blew it. Screw em.

  they are still anoucing on the radio here his bed had pills all over it 

Mrs.Skip68

[Brock Samson]

Did you know him or something?.. 
That's what the T.V. is reporting, he was "surrounded by pills".. 

[moparstuart]

Did you know him or something?.. 
That's what the T.V. is reporting, he was "surrounded by pills".. 

thats what they are still saying here also ?

[skip68]

Did you know him or something?.. 
That's what the T.V. is reporting, he was "surrounded by pills".. 

Hey Brock, I was not trying to B%tch you out, it's just the speculation that this thread is leading to, is pissing me off ! Did I know him ,....nope, I wish! I don't know what you are watching, but the medical examiners said he was found IN bed, (Not on the floor,as reported. Paramedics put him on the floor upon arrival to start CPR.) and there was one bottle of sleeping pills found on a nightstand. It has been reported that he was fighting pneumonia, and had been shooting a film in London where it is terrible weather!

Mrs.Skip68

[hemihead]

They said that during an interview a couple months ago that he had trouble sleeping and was taking Ambien ( ? ) . Probably an accidental overdose .  I think Mrs . Skip was in love with him the way she defends him .   

[skip68]

What's not to love!!!! He was HOT!!!!
No, I wasn't in love with him, just a fan. But I defend him because the rumor mills on this topic and other topics just frustrate me!
Mrs.Skip68

[Brock Samson]

found naked at the foot of his bed surrounded by pills by his house keeper... I've heard that at least  dozen times since last night,..
whatever... i just think it's sad and weird he was this "superstar" with a new born baby and he's suddenly found dead alone...
   

[skip68]

I still love ya Brock! Don't be hatin'!!!
Mrs.Skip68

[Ponch ®]

May he be spitting in his hand in the big camping tent in the sky....

[moparstuart]

  radio just said they found all cinda drugs in his system     zanex,valium,ambien, several european drugs ? , and cocaine

[Mike DC]

   

The top levels of Hollywood are basically an enriching centerfuge for self-destructive behaviour.   It's easy for us to look at HL and say, "I would never end up like that."  But we've never been put in anything close to that position at all, let alone having that position become your entire life for a decade or more.   

Many of us, while maybe not ending up dead at 28, might still have ended up doing more stupid crap than we expected of ourselves.  It's only a matter of degree.   

       

[hutch]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22788914/


Damn, only a $20?  He must of been down to his last million dollars or something.

[nh_mopar_fan]

This just in:

He's still dead.

Stay tuned for updates.

[bordin34]

Jack Nicholson said he warned Heith about the ambiem. Jack said that one time he took ambiem and almost drove off a cliff. 

[bull]

Jack Nicholson said he warned Heith about the ambiem. Jack said that one time he took ambiem and almost drove off a cliff. 

Is that the commercial with the butterfly? I'd drive off a cliff too if I had a big neon butterfly getting in my face.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22788914/
Damn, only a $20? He must of been down to his last million dollars or something.

"The $20 bill was found on the floor near Ledger's bed, and New York Police Department spokesman Paul Browne said lab tests found nothing to indicate it had been used to snort drugs."

Right, it's the only $20 bill in the US with no traces of drugs on it.

[Mike DC]

   
I remember one of the talking heads on TV saying that dude's NY apartment costs $24,000 per month.

[Magnumcharger]

Jack Nicholson said he warned Heith about the ambiem. Jack said that one time he took ambiem and almost drove off a cliff. 

Do you mean - from one Joker to another?

[Mike DC]

Heath really had some BIG shoes to fill with the new Batman role.   

He's the first actor to do a "Joker" role since Jack Nicholson's awesome 1989 performance.  Imagine being a 28yo actor trying to measure up to that.     

[68chrgrwife]

Please remember that mistakes do happen, Doctors can prescribe drugs forgetting or not knowing about other meds the patient is on.  Heath had said (in an interview) that he was having a horrible time sleeping since portraying the Joker....He needed the meds to sleep.  It isn't like he was abusing the drugs.....that HAS been CONFIRMED.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/101112?GT1=10755

Kelly also reported that several prescription drugs were found at the scene and that they included sleeping pills, but he did not release the names of the medications or the quantity. However, a source close to the investigation has revealed to NEWSWEEK that authorities found six drugs with European prescriptions in Ledger's apartment: Zopiclone, Diazepam, Lormetazepam, Temazepam, Alprazolam and Donormyl-doxylamine. One was an antihistamine and the other five were either sleeping aids (similar to Ambien) or anti-anxiety drugs (similar to Valium). All of these medications depress the central nervous system-which can lead to death if taken in the wrong quantities or combinations, explains Edward Langston, M.D., a pharmacist and chair of the American Medical Association's board of trustees. "You just fall asleep and stop breathing if you take too much for you."

[Back N Black]

With that amount of meds. sounds like he was addicted to prescription drugs. 

[68chrgrwife]

With that amount of meds. sounds like he was addicted to prescription drugs. 

well, then with the amount of meds I have I guess I am addicted too right.  I take different stuff for my disease and mixed together or in the wrong doses I could end up just like him.  Do you realize how easy it is to forget that you took a certain med and when?  I do it all the time.  Why do we have to assume that just because he is a celebrity that he was abusing drugs or whatever.....it easily could have been an honest mistake.  Unfortunately a beautiful actor in the prime of his career was taken from this earth.......

[hemihead]

 But when one of the hot looking actresses has a problem or gets busted , right away they are guilty ?

[TUFCAT]

Chargerwife has a good point .....these "drug cocktails" can be very dangerous.  Just look at Elvis, who was a "pioneer" of perscription drug abuse!  Elvis has no illegal drugs in his system when he died.... but had ingested enough perscriptions to empty a few shelves at your local CVS!

Personally, I think this Ledger dude was seriously depressed which led him to an intentional overdose. My guess is either he didn't care enough to be concerned about what he was taking, and had some idea  that it could kill him ...but figured,  if it does - then oh well.  Depression is a serious thing, and the perscription drugs perscribed to a depressed person CAN KILL THEM - - if taken wrong.

I suppose a doctor can only hope the patient takes the pills correctly  Frequently doctors are lied to, and without checking a patients medical history (usually with another doctor)  they will have no clue if a patient has access to, or is taking more medications.  This can be further manipulated by using different drug stores. 

Today's prescription drugs are putting the drug dealer out of business. They are so accessible, powerful, yet so "under the radar"  to carry or posses.   It seems that the more identifiable ones .... (illicit drugs) will be reserved only for the serious junkies in the future.

[68chrgrwife]

But when one of the hot looking actresses has a problem or gets busted , right away they are guilty ?

did I say that?  No I didn't.  If this had been a female (even crazy ass Spears) I would have said the same thing.  They have reported that it looks like an accident and I personally think it was.  He had pills still in the bottles...if you were trying to kill yourself...you wouldn't leave pills in the bottles you would take them all......

[TUFCAT]

They have reported that it looks like an accident and I personally think it was. 

I think he was depressed.....then, he made a mistake.

[hemihead]

I think it was an accident too . I think he was attempting suicide like Owen Wilson to get some attention or cry foe help but miscalculated the dosage or combination . I feel sorry for him , his family , and daughter but he too was a " crazy ass " .

[Back N Black]

But when one of the hot looking actresses has a problem or gets busted , right away they are guilty ?

did I say that?  No I didn't.  If this had been a female (even crazy ass Spears) I would have said the same thing.  They have reported that it looks like an accident and I personally think it was.  He had pills still in the bottles...if you were trying to kill yourself...you wouldn't leave pills in the bottles you would take them all......

He did not take them all because he did not want to puke them up, he knew how much to take. I think he accomplished what he set out to do. As for feeling sorry for him  I don't think he was thinking about his love ones. 

[moparstuart]

But when one of the hot looking actresses has a problem or gets busted , right away they are guilty ?

did I say that?  No I didn't.  If this had been a female (even crazy ass Spears) I would have said the same thing.  They have reported that it looks like an accident and I personally think it was.  He had pills still in the bottles...if you were trying to kill yourself...you wouldn't leave pills in the bottles you would take them all......

she will be found dead next !!!!!

[Ponch ®]

Personally, I think this Ledger dude was seriously depressed which led him to an intentional overdose. My guess is either he didn't care enough to be concerned about what he was taking, and had some idea  that it could kill him ...but figured,  if it does - then oh well.  Depression is a serious thing, and the perscription drugs perscribed to a depressed person CAN KILL THEM - - if taken wrong.

Depressed about what? I just heard that he was probably ballin' one of the Olsen Twins. Mary Kate, I think. I mean, she's not much of a looker, but if he got that, he might as well have backed up the Brinks truck.

[nh_mopar_fan]

Personally, I think this Ledger dude was seriously depressed which led him to an intentional overdose. My guess is either he didn't care enough to be concerned about what he was taking, and had some idea  that it could kill him ...but figured,  if it does - then oh well.  Depression is a serious thing, and the perscription drugs perscribed to a depressed person CAN KILL THEM - - if taken wrong.

Depressed about what? I just heard that he was probably ballin' one of the Olsen Twins. Mary Kate, I think. I mean, she's not much of a looker, but if he got that, he might as well have backed up the Brinks truck.

Hope this doesn't ruin Mary Kate's appetite.

[Mike DC]

Yeah, but if Hollywood has proven anything, it's that money/fame/success don't have anything to do with whether or not you're very happy inside. 



I'm calling this guy a probable accident though. 
He might have intentionally taken a dosage that turned out to be lethal, but that's not the same thing as intentionally taking a lethal dosage.  Not everyone who OD's on downers is intentionally trying to commit suicide. 

Plenty of people out there are running on huge overdoses of drugs all the time.  Amounts that would flatten anyone else who didn't already have a serious tolerance built up. 

Of course the coroner's toxicoligy report is gonna show some absolutely idiotic levels of drugs in the dead person's system -- their tolerance was HUGE by the time they died, and the lethal amount was probably not that much more than they were taking on a regular basis.     

   

[bull]

Do any of you really care? Seriously? Was he someone you talked to on a regular basis and enjoyed being around? Was anyone on this site his son, father, wife, daughter or skiing buddy? People die every day and we don't give it a second thought so why is it that when a pretty/rich celebrity dies people get all bent out of shape over it and the speculation as to how they died? We all speculate about everyone we know, dead or alive. It's human nature, get over it. The guy is dead so I really don't think he's concerned about our opinions of him. In fact, I'm willing to bet he didn't care before he died.

[hemihead]

Do any of you really care? Seriously? Was he someone you talked to on a regular basis and enjoyed being around? Was anyone on this site his son, father, wife, daughter or skiing buddy? People die every day and we don't give it a second thought so why is it that when a pretty/rich celebrity dies people get all bent out of shape over it and the speculation as to how they died? We all speculate about everyone we know, dead or alive. It's human nature, get over it. The guy is dead so I really don't think he's concerned about our opinions of him. In fact, I'm willing to bet he didn't care before he died.

I guess I care about as much as what car is on Alan Jackson's album cover , the DOH car at the BJ Auction , what car Bruce Willis drives , how much of a sled the new Challenger is ,which year Charger is best ,should somebody paint their car green or black , or whether Kenny Wayne Sheperd is a member . It just depends on what one thinks is of interest .

[Mike DC]

 
Hey, we don't have to be losing sleep over it just to idly speculate over it. 

The media certainly doesn't allow us to be unaware of the incident right now.

[bull]

Do any of you really care? Seriously? Was he someone you talked to on a regular basis and enjoyed being around? Was anyone on this site his son, father, wife, daughter or skiing buddy? People die every day and we don't give it a second thought so why is it that when a pretty/rich celebrity dies people get all bent out of shape over it and the speculation as to how they died? We all speculate about everyone we know, dead or alive. It's human nature, get over it. The guy is dead so I really don't think he's concerned about our opinions of him. In fact, I'm willing to bet he didn't care before he died.

I guess I care about as much as what car is on Alan Jackson's album cover , the DOH car at the BJ Auction , what car Bruce Willis drives , how much of a sled the new Challenger is ,which year Charger is best ,should somebody paint their car green or black , or whether Kenny Wayne Sheperd is a member . It just depends on what one thinks is of interest .

Well, at least the celebrities you mentioned above own or are within close proximity to the car we come here to talk about when they are mentioned, and that lends credence to them being mentioned here at all don't you think? Call me crazy but when I am on a Charger message board it makes perfect sense for the members to talk about Chargers; the ones we own, the ones we see in public, the ones we see in magazines and on album covers and in film and TV, etc...

[69charger2002]

yeah i mean if you deleted all those topics of general interest(KWS car, GL's, alan's car on a cover, etc. i mean how many new original posts can be talked about that is interesting? this site would get old fast. the best thing to do is if you're not interested in a topic such as bruce willis's charger, don't click on it to read. skip it
trav

[hemihead]

Do any of you really care? Seriously? Was he someone you talked to on a regular basis and enjoyed being around? Was anyone on this site his son, father, wife, daughter or skiing buddy? People die every day and we don't give it a second thought so why is it that when a pretty/rich celebrity dies people get all bent out of shape over it and the speculation as to how they died? We all speculate about everyone we know, dead or alive. It's human nature, get over it. The guy is dead so I really don't think he's concerned about our opinions of him. In fact, I'm willing to bet he didn't care before he died.

I guess I care about as much as what car is on Alan Jackson's album cover , the DOH car at the BJ Auction , what car Bruce Willis drives , how much of a sled the new Challenger is ,which year Charger is best ,should somebody paint their car green or black , or whether Kenny Wayne Sheperd is a member . It just depends on what one thinks is of interest .

Well, at least the celebrities you mentioned above own or are within close proximity to the car we come here to talk about when they are mentioned, and that lends credence to them being mentioned here at all don't you think? Call me crazy but when I am on a Charger message board it makes perfect sense for the members to talk about Chargers; the ones we own, the ones we see in public, the ones we see in magazines and on album covers and in film and TV, etc...

This is the " Off Topic Section " which means not the subject of the forum does it not ?  And what about all the people that come on this Charger forum and want to talk about trucks , Chevys , Fords, Ricers , etc . ? What about the people that want to brag about their kids, talk about their health ,their drinking habits,  and the ones that hit on the female members here . I guess we all tolerate the subject of a post when we or one our friends is interested or involved .

[bull]

Do any of you really care? Seriously? Was he someone you talked to on a regular basis and enjoyed being around? Was anyone on this site his son, father, wife, daughter or skiing buddy? People die every day and we don't give it a second thought so why is it that when a pretty/rich celebrity dies people get all bent out of shape over it and the speculation as to how they died? We all speculate about everyone we know, dead or alive. It's human nature, get over it. The guy is dead so I really don't think he's concerned about our opinions of him. In fact, I'm willing to bet he didn't care before he died.

I guess I care about as much as what car is on Alan Jackson's album cover , the DOH car at the BJ Auction , what car Bruce Willis drives , how much of a sled the new Challenger is ,which year Charger is best ,should somebody paint their car green or black , or whether Kenny Wayne Sheperd is a member . It just depends on what one thinks is of interest .

Well, at least the celebrities you mentioned above own or are within close proximity to the car we come here to talk about when they are mentioned, and that lends credence to them being mentioned here at all don't you think? Call me crazy but when I am on a Charger message board it makes perfect sense for the members to talk about Chargers; the ones we own, the ones we see in public, the ones we see in magazines and on album covers and in film and TV, etc...

This is the " Off Topic Section " which means not the subject of the forum does it not ?  And what about all the people that come on this Charger forum and want to talk about trucks , Chevys , Fords, Ricers , etc . ? What about the people that want to brag about their kids, talk about their health ,their drinking habits,  and the ones that hit on the female members here . I guess we all tolerate the subject of a post when we or one our friends is interested or involved .

I'm talking about the weirdness of getting emotionally involved with the death of someone nobody here really knows. I would feel no different if Bruce Willis, John Schneider, Kenny Wayne Shepherd or Alan Jackson died because I don't know them, am not related to them and have never talked to them (I might miss Mr. Willis because I like his acting ability but don't expect any tears or sleep loss). Likewise I know for a fact that none of these celebrities would lose any sleep if I dropped dead right now. Hell, 99% of the people on this site wouldn't lose any sleep if I died tomorrow. I just don't understand people getting bent out of shape over celebrity deaths. That's all.

[hemihead]

Like trav said  if you aren't interested in a topic, don't read it . I don't say that with any animosity . 

[bull]

Like trav said  if you aren't interested in a topic, don't read it . I don't say that with any animosity . 

Right, and I am interested so I read it. I think he was talking to you.

[PocketThunder]

Gosh, i'm glad we're not talking about Jamie Lynn Spears anymore!  Uff Da!   

[dkn1997]

Everyone needs to calm down, Lets talk more about this:

[Brock Samson]

well just for the sake of the discussion, compare the death of this hollywood actor with the poor souls lost in the auto accident in Ron's post...
We are linked to the actor via his portrayal in popular cinema so there is a connection between us and him, even if we don't know him personally. His profession is to engage us in his character/s and to bring his roles to life. Did he succeed in this endeavor? the evidence shows that indeed for most of us he did.
In the Accident Ron responded to, he had a major stake in attempting to save their lives, and it must be absolutely devastating to attempt such an effort and be frustrated.  While we had no such connection with the accident victims ourselves, Ron sure did.
  Is anyone here broken up or particularly concerned with their demise?.. I can't speak for any of you, only myself, and I feel sad that so many innocent lose their live due to whatever the unknown circumstances were. Actors, passengers in a car or any soul or life in need, be they Human, Animal or endangered flora, (And If that makes me a whacked out tree hugger, so be it).
  To Ron specifically I'd like to add here just how deeply grateful I am that he and many thousands of dedicated professionals are on duty 24/7 and 365 day a year to come to my or my loved ones or friends aid should i or anyone for that matter, ever require help, from the 911 operators to the Hazzmat crews and also that they would be severely affected responding even risking death or injury themselves and short of risking injury themselves, they brave the emotional repercussions of what I'm sure is a deeply spiritual bond when the victims and even co-workers are caught up in everyday emergencies, most of which happen all around us without our kn owlage.
Working the citydesk phones for nearly three decades i can say with certinly, we know absolutely nothing about the multitude of tragedies that occur all around us at any given time.
I hope this makes sense as I'm writing from my heart and not from some pragmatic voyeur's viewpoint.

[bull]

Ok, I'm officially no longer interested in this topic.