Project Charger: How much do you think the restoration cost?

[Crazy Larry]

i have this book called Project Charger....

here is a link to it on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Project-Charger-Step-Step-Restoration/dp/193199322X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200630333&sr=8-1

Its a great book detailing a complete restoration of a 1970 Dodge Charger.

In the end, he says he spent 1050 hours in total to restore the Charger.

What he does not say is how much it cost or what his final budget was.

Can anyone take a guess at how much it would cost to restore a Charger by doing all the work yourself as he does in this book?

[69bronzeT5]

Do a search on the site here. I asked about it a few months ago and I got alot of good responses

[Crazy Larry]

Do a search on the site here. I asked about it a few months ago and I got alot of good responses

Cool - I guess I should have done that first, but I thought this was an odd question

[Rack]

Yep, it's been asked here before. I think I even asked it once.


It's a good book. Especially if you don't know a whole lot about restoring cars (like me). I read it twice.

[69bronzeT5]

Heres my thread regarding it

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,36928.0.html

[Crazy Larry]

I read a few threads on the book - but I have the book so I know how good it is.

What would you guys guess he spent on the restoration - he details the 1,000+ hours it took to complete, but not what his budget was.

Also, the restoration was done back in the first part of the decade - the prices are a bit different now, as are availabilities of parts and re-pro components....

My guess is that he spent no more than $10,000 on the restoration - because the charger was pretty solid when he started, and he did all the work himself.

Is $10,000 a good guess?

[694spdRT]

It really depends on the car you start with and what parts you need. I don't have that book but $10K does not go very far on any car if you are talking about a complete resto. Two years ago I finished my car up and did nearly everything short of final stage of painting and the engine shortblock assembly. If I took the cost of those two items out 10K would still not have cover half of it and I bought many parts years earlier.  I stopped keeping track of hours at around 800 and I was not close to being done. Keep in mind not every second of that is working as you have to stop and admire things every now and then. 

Just think about how many things there are when talking about a complete resto including the complete interior, engine and all the accessories, tranny, rearend, brakes, suspension, radiator, chrome, wiring, tires, paint(supplies), fuel lines, gas tank, exhaust system, under hood detail items, etc., etc. 

If you start with a complete and solid car you could probably get a decent driver done for 10K that does not require all of the above if you do everything yourself......maybe.

[hemi-hampton]

Buying all new parts & sending stuff out to get rebuilt can cost you $50,000. Thats just for parts & no labor. 1,050 hours x$50 a hour comes out to $52,500. So if you send your car out to get done figure $100,000+ if you do all the paint & body work yourself figure $50,000. Yeah, I know, most of you think I'm crazy. LEON.

[Crazy Larry]

It really depends on the car you start with and what parts you need. I don't have that book but $10K does not go very far on any car if you are talking about a complete resto. Two years ago I finished my car up and did nearly everything short of final stage of painting and the engine shortblock assembly. If I took the cost of those two items out 10K would still not have cover half of it and I bought many parts years earlier.  I stopped keeping track of hours at around 800 and I was not close to being done. Keep in mind not every second of that is working as you have to stop and admire things every now and then. 

Just think about how many things there are when talking about a complete resto including the complete interior, engine and all the accessories, tranny, rearend, brakes, suspension, radiator, chrome, wiring, tires, paint(supplies), fuel lines, gas tank, exhaust system, under hood detail items, etc., etc. 

If you start with a complete and solid car you could probably get a decent driver done for 10K that does not require all of the above if you do everything yourself......maybe.

That's a good figure.

I have a Charger that is in good condition - but not show room. The interior is all new or in very good condition. The 440 is not original but strong and healthy.

I was thinking about how much to budget in just stripping the car down to the frame. Re-paint and and build back up.

My aim, would be a like-new driver - kind of like the result the author got in the project Charger book.

I know each project is specific - but it can't cost much to rent/buy air compressor and paint equipment - engine lift and rotisserie stand....not even sure what the tech terms for those things are..and then do all the work yourself. It sounds possible for $10 K if you start with a decent Charger like the one I have now.....

[Troy]

You have to remember that the guy who spent 1,050 hours also does this professionally (which is also probably why he didn't list a price). A normal schmuck like me can spend 5 hours attaching one door panel!

Average shop rates are $40-60 per hour and most spend a lot more than 1,000 hours on a full restoration. Remember that doesn't include the cost of parts so all those little $5 clips add up - along with the $2,500 worth of chrome on some of these things. Some guys go over $10,000 on just the engine and that's mostly farmed out to the machine shop/engine builder.

Any way, the more you do yourself the cheaper it gets BUT many times a shop can finish it in 1/3-1/2 the time. If you aren't looking for a concourse restoration then those numbers come down significantly. Presumably you still want the body and paint done correctly but you may be able to get by with "driver quality" chrome and trim and a stock rebuild on the mechanical parts.

Troy

[Rack]

Larry, IMO (this is just my opinion) your charger is in WAY too good of condition to tear down and "rebuild". It appears to be in great condition already.

Now, if you were wanting to do a matching numbers restoration, I could understand that. If you just want a different color, I could understand that too. But the paint looks good on it as it is.

You ride looks almost exactly how I want mine to look. If you want to "redo" it might as well take mine (since it's already disassembled for you) and I'll take yours. 

[Couga]

Like it was said before, counts on the car you have to work with.
I got a deal whenI bought the Bee, but it needs some work to be complete.
I ended up having to rebuild the motor and I have roughly $2500 in the engine alone, and it is not yet in the car.

I was given a quote that to remove my top and install a rust free top would be $800.00
Then I have to install a new drivers floorpan, and do a little more bodywork before preping for paint.
It can add up fast if you dont watch it.

Steve

[Crazy Larry]

Larry, IMO (this is just my opinion) your charger is in WAY too good of condition to tear down and "rebuild". It appears to be in great condition already.

Now, if you were wanting to do a matching numbers restoration, I could understand that. If you just want a different color, I could understand that too. But the paint looks good on it as it is.

You ride looks almost exactly how I want mine to look. If you want to "redo" it might as well take mine (since it's already disassembled for you) and I'll take yours. 

ha ha

Don't let the 6 year-old $1,000 high gloss black paint job fool ya. The body is straight and all metal (no bondo) but imperfections can be seen all over. Little rust bubbles starting in certain areas. The engine bay is not re-painted, but old and chipped. The insides of the door jams are still the cheap orange that the car was painted when I first picked it up (originally black, but painted with a cheap pumpkin orange in some Dukes of H look-a-like scheme).

And the underside, wheel housings are not even painted, just bare aged metal (but no rust - some spots but nothing major).

The interior is the best part of the Charger, so it would be a shame to take it all out again, but I would really like to sanding, prime and re-paint of the floor pans - both inside and out.

And best of all - I would time myself out for an entire year. So I could take my time on things like that 5 hour door installation. 

[Crazy Larry]

You have to remember that the guy who spent 1,050 hours also does this professionally (which is also probably why he didn't list a price). A normal schmuck like me can spend 5 hours attaching one door panel!

Average shop rates are $40-60 per hour and most spend a lot more than 1,000 hours on a full restoration. Remember that doesn't include the cost of parts so all those little $5 clips add up - along with the $2,500 worth of chrome on some of these things. Some guys go over $10,000 on just the engine and that's mostly farmed out to the machine shop/engine builder.

Any way, the more you do yourself the cheaper it gets BUT many times a shop can finish it in 1/3-1/2 the time. If you aren't looking for a concourse restoration then those numbers come down significantly. Presumably you still want the body and paint done correctly but you may be able to get by with "driver quality" chrome and trim and a stock rebuild on the mechanical parts.

Troy

That's a good point, Troy - he was a pro and we are all amateurs in the vast scheme of things. I'm just thinking about, when I have more time in the future (and a bigger garage), to see if I could do this myself. It's an expensive hobby, but kind of a cool one at that. I believe if some guys go down to Vegas and blow$15,000 on the tables - why can't I take that $15,000 and maybe sink it into something constructive.

I look at my Charger - and I have always wanted it to get to the next level. Just wondering if it was a lost cause in thinking about doing it myself one day, or should I just concede to the fact that I would have to pay for a paint job.

I still think you could do it on your own, if you were willing to take the time and learn about the craft.

[Rack]

Larry, IMO (this is just my opinion) your charger is in WAY too good of condition to tear down and "rebuild". It appears to be in great condition already.

Now, if you were wanting to do a matching numbers restoration, I could understand that. If you just want a different color, I could understand that too. But the paint looks good on it as it is.

You ride looks almost exactly how I want mine to look. If you want to "redo" it might as well take mine (since it's already disassembled for you) and I'll take yours. 

ha ha

Don't let the 6 year-old $1,000 high gloss black paint job fool ya. The body is straight and all metal (no bondo) but imperfections can be seen all over. Little rust bubbles starting in certain areas. The engine bay is not re-painted, but old and chipped. The insides of the door jams are still the cheap orange that the car was painted when I first picked it up (originally black, but painted with a cheap pumpkin orange in some Dukes of H look-a-like scheme).

And the underside, wheel housings are not even painted, just bare aged metal (but no rust - some spots but nothing major).

The interior is the best part of the Charger, so it would be a shame to take it all out again, but I would really like to sanding, prime and re-paint of the floor pans - both inside and out.

And best of all - I would time myself out for an entire year. So I could take my time on things like that 5 hour door installation. 

Oh well, I tried. 


Seriously though, it looks great in that pic, but it's true there's a lot you can't see in a picture.

If that's all it really needs, go for it. Just be sure to put all those interior pieces in a nice, safe, dry, dust-free place while you're doing the work. 

[69bronzeT5]

I read a few threads on the book - but I have the book so I know how good it is.

My mistake. Sorry bout that

[suntech]

I would have stripped it for everything, and acid dip/ e-coat it. If the car is as solid as you say, then you can do as much of the bodywork as you are comfortable with, and leave the rest for the professionals. Then it will ofcause be a pricetag on the paint, but you will then be sure that it will be done right, and it will raise the walue of oyur ride, a lot!!
Engines and mecanical parts is easy to do part by part, but the body, in order to get a good result, must IMO be done in one shot!!
Rolf

[Joshua]

These restoration posts just make me depressed.....knowing I ain't got the moo-lah to put my car back together....
I may just throw it back together as it is.....I already miss driving it...

[70 Charger RT]

I think $10k is way low.  I spent $45,000 on parts (and some labour) alone.  Keep in mind I did most of the work myself except for final prep and paint / 440 machining.
*$8,200 paint and some body work
*$5,000 motor rebuild
*$3,000 additional motor parts (cam, intake, carb etc)
*$4,000 Legendary Interior
* etc, etc...
You get the idea.  Like someone said earlier, it depends on condition when you start and what condition you want to restrore it to.

I just started a 69 R/T-SE and I'm already at $35k.  All that's really left is paint and re-assembly.  I figure I'll have it complete by about $42k

[SFRT]

You can always make more money.

There are only X amount of real Chargers.

[Anders]

If my memory serves me right, I remember the author of that book talking something about spending $ 40.000 on the project and he didnt calculate anything on his work. I have to check that.

[BlueSS454]

I have about $15,000 in my Charger give or take a couple hundred.  I have done EVERYTHING to the car myself.  Sheetmetal replacement, bodywork, paint, interior, engine, rear, suspension, dissasembly, reassembly, and anything else you can think of.  ALL of the money I have int he car is in parts and materials.  I counted the hours once and it was in the 900-1100 range so his hour figure isn't far off.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Buying all new parts & sending stuff out to get rebuilt can cost you $50,000. Thats just for parts & no labor. 1,050 hours x$50 a hour comes out to $52,500. So if you send your car out to get done figure $100,000+ if you do all the paint & body work yourself figure $50,000. Yeah, I know, most of you think I'm crazy. LEON.

Shops around here average $85.00 / hr.     Ouch...    good thing I know how to turn a wrench   

[Crazy Larry]

I have about $15,000 in my Charger give or take a couple hundred.  I have done EVERYTHING to the car myself.  Sheetmetal replacement, bodywork, paint, interior, engine, rear, suspension, dissasembly, reassembly, and anything else you can think of.  ALL of the money I have int he car is in parts and materials.  I counted the hours once and it was in the 900-1100 range so his hour figure isn't far off.

Now that is great news! I had a feeling it could be done somewhat in that range. Do you have an extensive background in auto restoration or did you do the learn as you go approach?

[BigBlockSam]

hi
thats a great car to start with . i did my 68 r/t for under $10000.  check out the thread

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=15689.msg175740#msg175740

i'm doing a challenger now . i hope to bring this car in for under $6000 . it's got a rust free body so it's mostly mechannical and interior .

i wouldn't be able to do it without the help of my friends. i pay them  but they give me great prices .

and i barter when i can. i built a bass guitar for my friends kid. so he's doing all the machine work on the challenger's 440 motor for free . i just have to assemble it. there's alot of ways to save money . you just have to be creative. i can't afford to hand my car ove to a resto shop  . Rene