Anyone get their 440source heads yet???? SOLD OUT TILL FEB!

[dstryr]

A builder on moparts offered to work over a set free for the exposure and to learn about the heads.  Some people weren't happy with free but I sent him an email anyway.

FWIW:  http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4195171&an=0&page=0#Post4195171 

[moparsuebear]

Mine came yesterday!!!!!!

Too bad i'm in fla on an AF trip so i can't play with them 

Yea, but I've been having fun with them! Actually, I can't back that up. They are still in the box, in the garage. and dang, that box was HEAVY! No wonder the postman couldn't deliver it to the house! Can't wait til you get home!!!!

[defiance]

BTW - dug this up on moparts - MCH Eddy flow chart:

Intake
.100 75.4
.200 151.4
.300 218.8
.400 267.5
.500 306.5
.600 324.5
.700 328.5
.800 328.4

Exhaust
.100 75.5
.200 125.6
.300 165.8
.400 197.2
.500 217.7
.600 230.8
.700 238.8
.800 245.1

Exhaust + tube
.100 78.4
.200 131.4
.300 175.4
.400 212.4
.500 239.8
.600 256.6
.700 268.4
.800 275.9



Again, these are MCH ported EDDIES, NOT STEALTH numbers, and dug up from a post on moparts, so this is NOT from Jeff - at least not directly.

So .... maybe I should start a new thread about this - but I'll take this opportunity to solicit advice!

Assuming the above numbers are at least very similar to the ported stealths, anyone have any cam recommendations?  The engine is a 4.25" stroke, .030 over, -17cc dish 440source stroker, deck blocked to .000 with the pistons, with a bcr girdle/aluminum cap kit.  The heads were millled .020", which brought the final chamber size to 84ccs - which means they're apparently just a tad over 84 normally.  I probably could've asked MCH to bump them down to 83 and finish the compression up to 10.5/1, but I figure 1cc will give me a bit more breathing room in case I ever have trouble finding 93 octane .  If I'm calculating right, that should be about 10.35:1 compression ratio.
Block is done as described above, just waiting for cam & heads. (heads on the way now, so I finally have to actually make a cam choice )
Goal is to make a street powerhouse that sees the strip every once in a while.
Any suggestions

[Musicman]

All depends on the rest of it.... What are your plans for the induction side?... single 4bbl, Dual, 6 Pack?... Dual Plane intake, Single Plane? How about the exhaust system... Loud, Quiet, Sporty?...  Rough Riders idle, Smoothe Idle? How about the water pump & fan... Elec. or Mech.
What about the other stuff... power brakes? Automatic Trans? Do you want to stay with a stock TQ converter?
In what RPM range do you want your best power production to occur? Remember, that 4.25 stroker is going to be generating higher piston speeds than a stock 440.

Seems like most folks are only concerned with one thing...more,more,more... If your building a street car I wouldn't concern myself with that sort of thing. Just reach for the biggest TQ & HP numbers you can pack into a reasonably normal RPM range. Of course that's just my opinion... 

  (nobody ever listens to me anyway) 

[defiance]

Victor EFI intake (mostly because I've got a port injection EFI system built up for it and anything else would require custom machining) and a throttle body (I found a 1600cfm with spacers that can cut it back to anything between 900 and 1600, so I can tune it to whatever I need).  Mech water pump, electric fans ... I'd prefer the best exhaust system I can get that's reasonably quiet (given the engine), since I'm also a big audio fan - but that's something I can compromise.  I have that slated as one of the last engine components to finalize .  Definitely headers, no decision past that yet though.  I'd prefer a "dependable" idle - a bit choppy is great, as long as it isn't difficult to manage (or tune the efi with).  Auto trans (already have a beefed up 727 and dana rear with powr-lok @3.55 - plan to eventually add overdrive), power brake (with a vacuum canister if it works, or seperate vacuum pump if I need it), aftermarket torque converter (haven't finalized a decision on which one yet, though, since I was waiting on head numbers to choose the cam, and waiting on both to choose the tq converter), looking for a slightly above normal street RPM range; no 8K peak or anything (maybe 6k or 6500?) so that I can get a bit extra hp by redlining it on the strip, but still get nearly all the torque and most of the HP in "street" rpm ranges (never passing 5500 or so). 
That's my thought at the moment anyway; I'm VERY willing to take advice otherwise

[firefighter3931]

looking for a slightly above normal street RPM range; no 8K peak or anything (maybe 6k or 6500?) so that I can get a bit extra hp by redlining it on the strip, but still get nearly all the torque and most of the HP in "street" rpm ranges (never passing 5500 or so). 
That's my thought at the moment anyway; I'm VERY willing to take advice otherwise

Cam : Comp XS290S (solid flat tappet) on a 112* lsa
Exhaust : TTI 2in headers/3in x-pipe system with Magnaflow 3in mufflers (quieter than Ultraflows)
Converter : Turbo Action "tight" 10in street/strip unit



Ron

[defiance]

Ron, as always, you are the man
I just ran that through engine analyzer and it looks like about exactly the curve I was hoping for.  I don't really trust the numbers (it says 690/640 peaks; I'm thinking it's might be 90% of that at most), but I think the shape should probably be right.

Thanks!!

I'll try to get these in, on, and get the rest of the engine together for dynoing ASAP, but it still might be a month or two...  I'm impatient to see the results too, but I keep peace with the wife my maintaining strict monthly spending caps

[firefighter3931]

Defiance,

You're welcome bud 

That grind should work out pretty nice for ya....lots of idle vacuum for easy (EFI) tuning and power brakes. The torque curve is gonna be as flat as a pool table and there will be lots of it. 

Depending on how well the heads flow it should make in the 580-600hp range and i would expect 600+ ftlbs at peak volumetric efficiency. It will be pretty responsive off idle and the wide lsa will spread the power out. That's a good thing with a heavy car and shallow gearing....you need the low end torque to get that pup moving. The tight 10in T/A converter will work fine with the 3.54's and the flat torque curve this build will produce. Should be loads of fun ! 



Ron

[Musicman]

Depending on how well the heads flow it should make in the 580-600hp range and i would expect 600+ ftlbs at peak volumetric efficiency.

This is just a confirmation post... I ran the build through my program as well, and came back with the same estimates as Ron.
Nice job Ron

[defiance]

The mailman brings gifts today!

[firefighter3931]

The mailman brings gifts today!

I'm just seeing a red x....are those head pics ?



Ron

[Musicman]

Same Here 

[mally69]

Does any one know if they have gotten Febuary's shipment in yet. 

[defiance]

Huh.  Guess I have to do it as a link.
http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5169198909042755138

[Mfr426]

I ordered mine about 3 weeks ago and was told that they would be shipped "towards the end of the month".

I'll call today to see how we're doing.

The suspense is killing me! 

[TUFCAT]

Ken at 440 source called me Tuesday to let me know my Heads were in and confirm my credit card number. I guess I will have them very soon. 

[firefighter3931]

Huh.  Guess I have to do it as a link.
http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5169198909042755138

Wow, those look very freakin nice....perfect for a nice Comp Custom solid grind  They look ported from what i can see 

If that's the case...do you have any data to share ? 



Ron

[Musicman]

Huh.  Guess I have to do it as a link.
http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5169198909042755138

Looks like MCH did a good job... as Ron said, ya got anything else you wanna tell us?

Mike

[defiance]

Jeff called yesterday to finalize some stuff and said then that he forgot to send the flow sheet with the heads, but that it would be in the mail immediately after it.  He had asked me not to post pre-port flow numbers because of all the "debate" going on right now, but I don't think that applies to post-port flow numbers.  Once it gets here, I'll confirm with him - as long as he ok's me posting them, I'll post them here .  He did say the after-port flow was essentially identical to the flow on his ported eddies.  Yes, some will claim that as evidence that they're copied, but that's an argument I don't really want to start if I can help it...

He also said he was generally very impressed with the 'stealth' aspect - he said that the exterior was a very convincing replica of a 906 in shape and texture.  He also seemed to like the valve components - I was surprised to hear this, considering the complaining over at moparts, but he indicated that the valve components actually looked pretty good overall.

Obviously at this point I can't necessarily recommend the heads, having not even installed them, but visually speaking, to my not-so-trained eye, they look amazing!

Also, Jeff was great to work with.  The work looks top-notch, was done pretty quick, and for a fair price

I'll be bolting them on this weekend.  I'm trying an edelbrock head gasket since I already had a set; I'll let you know how it works.

[Musicman]

Thanks for the input, you know that we all appreciate it  ... keep us posted 

[Mfr426]

After FINALLY getting 440 Source to answer the phone yesterday I confirmed my heads (and other goodies) are shipping today (Friday, 22nd). I should have them by Friday of next week "at the lastest".

The guy said that they are so swamped that they cant keep up with the business. From the number of times I called and could not get through, I believe him.

I cant wait till next week!

[mally69]

I tried to call  5 times yesterday, and didnt get an answer. They must be swamped.

[Mfr426]

I like their products but they really need some more help for the phones. It's a good problem to have these days though.

[Musicman]

I like their products but they really need some more help for the phones. It's a good problem to have these days though.

They tell me that they are making every attempt to keep their business relationships with their customers on a more personal level. They want you to be able to speak and deal with the same person each time you call. This way, you build a relationship with that person over time, a friendship if you will. They feel that this will lend a certain level of comfort to their long term customers, and hopefully generate future long term customers. This could never happen if they were to hired 80 million people to answer the phones, taking orders in broken English... am I right? It's a small company with a new product in high demand... things will cool off in time.

[defiance]

Making progress!

couple of pieces of advice:

1) Don't trust my machinist to vat a block - or perhaps don't have expectations as high as I do...  I'd expected the engine to come out clean of paint and debris, but not so; this thing has huge swaths of paint remaining.  I plan on spending a few hours in the garage with a wire brush drill attachment and some engine degreaser, but I had hoped the vatting would take care of it.  Is it normal that paint will survive??  Having said that, when the block came from the machinist's originally, the *insides* of the block were pristine, perfect, beautiful.  Which, of course, is what counts.


2) Don't trust my dad to store your short block.  When I made it to his shop today, pulled out the engine, and was almost in tears.  I don't know how he managed it, but not only did he not coat the machined surfaces in lithium grease as he'd promised, but he actually had WATER in two cylinders.  Having spent nearly 4k on block, machining, rotating assembly, caps, girdle, studs, and assembly, it nearly had me in tears to see the rust.  Luckily it was only surface and came right off with some penetrating oil and hard rubbing, but ... as much as I love my dad, and as helpful as he's ben throughout this, I no longer trust him to care for anything I leave with him.


Anyway, on to more relevant topics:
First off, the Edelbrock head gaskets.  I don't know just how much firing chamber intrusion the felpro head gaskets had, so I'm not sure what to compare these to...  but with the eddy gaskets, there was still a slight intrusion.  Not huge, but you rubbing your finger around the edge of the combustion chamber in the head, you could feel it.  I'm personally not concerned about it; about 95% of the fire ring is still compressed between the head and block.  Of course, I'm no expert, but it simply doesn't seem like cause for concern for me.  Again, I have no idea what the situation was with the felpros, though.

Anyway, I only bothered to clean off the cylinder walls and head mating surfaces today, so there's still a good bit of rust visible, as well as the ugly paint chunks.   Hopefully next time I post pics it'll be because it actually looks *good*, but in the meantime, everybody likes pics, right?

http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5170764239938553426
http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5170764295773128290
http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5170764330132866674
http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5170764373082539650
http://picasaweb.google.com/defiancecp/UntitledAlbum/photo#5170768904273036946