Anyone get their 440source heads yet???? SOLD OUT TILL FEB!

[Blakcharger440]

So the Rol gaskets are the only ones that will work properly and no over the counter Felpro will work?

I just ordered a set of the stealth heads,arp bolts and spark plugs a couple of days ago from Brandon and I hope that the gasket issue will not be a huge problem.

The easy fix for the gasket overhang issue would be to simply mill .030 off the heads....problem solved. 

The ROL gaskets are thicker and have a larger bore diameter so this would be a good idea anyway to help get the compression back up. 



Ron

Wouldnt I have to take .030 off the intake also for proper alignment? WIth the thicker gasket and larger bore diameter it would seem to bring the compression down.

I am a novice engine builder at best and I am just asking questions so I can fix something that may have otherwise gone overlooked by me. Also it seems like a number of head gaskets were tried over on the Moparts board and it sounds like they all had some overhang?

[firefighter3931]

Wouldnt I have to take .030 off the intake also for proper alignment?

Normally, you can takw .020 off a head without having to worry about the intake side when using a stock steel shim head gasket which measures .020 thick. Since the ROL's are .045 compressed you can easily take .030 off and still have good alignment.

WIth the thicker gasket and larger bore diameter it would seem to bring the compression down.

Yep, the thicker gasket and larger bore diameter does lower the compression ratio. That's why you can mill the heads .030 and still maintain the same approximate static compression ratio. 

Also it seems like a number of head gaskets were tried over on the Moparts board and it sounds like they all had some overhang?

That seems to be the case when the different gaskets were tried on stock (uncut) Stealth heads. By milling the chamber surface you are effectively reducing the chamber diameter which will correct the overhang issue. 



Ron

[john108]

Without having it in front of me and touching it with my finger, I am having trouble visualizing it completely.
If you placed the gasket on the face of the block, the gasket bores should line up concentric with each cylinder and if you looked up from the crank side of the block, I would expect not to see the gasket. 
With the closed chamber head, I thought the head chamber was smaller than the block bore.
Is the problem that the chambers in the head are slightly mis-located OR Slightly larger than they should be??

I couldn't see/understand exactly what the previously uploaded pictures (on the other website) showed.
John

[firefighter3931]

Is the problem that the chambers in the head are slightly mis-located OR Slightly larger than they should be??

That appears to be the case John...it could just be core shift or a design flaw (chambers too large)

Without having it in front of me and touching it with my finger, I am having trouble visualizing it completely.
If you placed the gasket on the face of the block, the gasket bores should line up concentric with each cylinder and if you looked up from the crank side of the block, I would expect not to see the gasket.
John

The problem is not with the block....it's with the head. The edge of the gasket was encroaching into the Chamber in some of those pics....but you had to look closely to see it. 



Ron

[my73charger]

Ron,

What is the weight of a stock cast head?  I am wondering what kind of weight reduction I will see with these.  The STEALTH head weighs 29lbs.

[aifilaw]

couldn't tell you for certain, but I gaurantee the iron heads weigh in excess of 50 Lbs each conservatively. realistically I'd aim more at 60-65

[hard-charger]

hey ron.  so with the .45 compressed rol's, what would be the most youd recommed taking off the head surface without running into a intake fittment problem? 
thanks!

[firefighter3931]

Ron,

What is the weight of a stock cast head?  I am wondering what kind of weight reduction I will see with these.  The STEALTH head weighs 29lbs.

You'll save 50+ lbs at least ! 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

hey ron.  so with the .45 compressed rol's, what would be the most youd recommed taking off the head surface without running into a intake fittment problem? 
thanks!

No problem with a .030 mill and the ROL gaskets...chop away. 



Ron

[john108]

What is a rough cost estimate for disassembling the heads, milling .030, check everything, and re-assembly.  These operations add to the cost of the heads.

[Musicman]

Why is everyone so eager to jump off the edge of the cliff... Is it because one person said there is a wolf coming? Have you actually seen the wolf?

Personally, I'll wait until I have my new heads and gaskets in hand before I start jumping to conclusions. If at that time, I feel there really is a problem, then I will act on one of these three choices...

A) I will take it up with Brandon at 440Source
B) I will get a bigger head gasket (of which there are many to choose from)
C) I will have the heads reworked

... and you can bet that option "A" will be my first choice.

Mike 

[defiance]

Thus far the feedback I've gotten from MCH on them has been good.  Non-specific (I think Jeff is being intentionally vague in order to ensure he stays far from the drama), but good.  They're almost done, and I can't wait to get them one the engine

[john108]

From what I have read, ther are more issues than just the head gasket.
I bailed.

[defiance]

From what I have read, ther are more issues than just the head gasket.
I bailed.

Such as? 

[Mfr426]

Yes John, please bring us up to speed on any other issues that you are aware of.

My set is on order to ship later this month.

Thanks...

Mike R in Reading PA

[Blakcharger440]

From what I have read, ther are more issues than just the head gasket.
I bailed.

I have a set on order. What issues?

[Musicman]

    Here we go again... I heard... someone said... 

There's nothing wrong with gathering information, or keeping yours eye's and ears open my friends, just don't go jumping off that cliff until you've seen the devil coming with your own eyes.

As I said before, I'll wait until I have my new heads and gaskets in hand before I start jumping to conclusions. If at that time, I feel there really is a problem, then I will take it up with Brandon at 440Source... You have 30 days to inspect them anyway, so the absolute worst case scenario would be having to return them for a refund because there was some major issue that Brandon couldn't or wouldn't take care of.
These heads are priced right, and I have a set due at the end of the month. The train is rolling, and I'm not jumping off unless there's no other choice. 

[Mfr426]

If there is more info out there about these heads from more knowlegable folks than me, then yes I'd like to hear it. Of course I would like to see the sources for such info which is what I think we were asking.

My heads are on order and I'll have them checked out by a pro once I get them. However, if others have already done that and/or put them on motors and run them and there are "other" issues then yes, I'm interested.

It seems like a reasonable topic for such a forum? 

[Musicman]

If there is more info out there about these heads from more knowlegable folks than me, then yes I'd like to hear it. Of course I would like to see the sources for such info which is what I think we were asking.

My heads are on order and I'll have them checked out by a pro once I get them. However, if others have already done that and/or put them on motors and run them and there are "other" issues then yes, I'm interested.

It seems like a reasonable topic for such a forum? 

I agree... the problem is, a lot of folks will react to hearsay before gathering the facts. The other problem is, and I'm sure you are aware, naysayers are always quick to report issues which may or may not exist. When it's time to come up with logical, real world solutions or alternatives however, their mouths are shut. Furthermore, as the old saying goes, "it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch", which is a true statement. A good number of people have already mounted these heads on their builds, using gaskets ranging from FEL 1009 to the ROL 31130, and are running these engines. They did not report any issues during the build, after the build, or since... but have you heard anyone discussing them... NO, because there is nothing to discuss. Let one person jump in with something negative however, and an entire forum turns to chaos. The other forum turned into a circus because one guy "who knew what he was talking about", posted his findings and comparisons, as well as his opinion. Then a bunch of people "who didn't know what they were talking about" took bits and pieces of his work out of context and started flinging poop everywhere.... and folks reacted to that, and still are as we speak here today. I just don't want to see that happen here on our forum. These heads have been out for several weeks now, do you seriously believe that no one out there is currently using them. Of course there will be a bad report here and there, it's only natural... you get a bad one every now and then... it can happen with any product, that's what warranties are all about.
As I stated earlier, there's nothing wrong with keeping your eyes and ears open, just don't go jumping to conclusions. More importantly, always be aware of your options. I wouldn't order anything sight unseen from anyone that didn't have a good reputation and a clear return policy... 440source has both, so I'll give them a shot. I'll be getting my stuff soon enough... so we'll see what happens.

[Mfr426]

This is a perfect "new thread" segway then... "do you seriously believe that no one out there is currently using them"?

Stay tuned...

[Musicman]

I like the way you think 

[defiance]

Just got an email from MCH - heads are done - I don't have flow numbers (like I said, Jeff doesn't appear to want to be in the middle of this - don't blame him!), but he did mention that they basically used the Edelbrock CNC program.  But if it's using essentially the same CNC program, the end result should have the same shape runners, chamber, etc, so it should flow the same, right?  Well, with the exception of the plug angle, but that probably wouldn't matter much for flow, right?

[defiance]

BTW - dug this up on moparts - MCH Eddy flow chart:

Intake
.100 75.4
.200 151.4
.300 218.8
.400 267.5
.500 306.5
.600 324.5
.700 328.5
.800 328.4

Exhaust
.100 75.5
.200 125.6
.300 165.8
.400 197.2
.500 217.7
.600 230.8
.700 238.8
.800 245.1

Exhaust + tube
.100 78.4
.200 131.4
.300 175.4
.400 212.4
.500 239.8
.600 256.6
.700 268.4
.800 275.9



Again, these are MCH ported EDDIES, NOT STEALTH numbers, and dug up from a post on moparts, so this is NOT from Jeff - at least not directly.

[Musicman]

Just got an email from MCH - heads are done - I don't have flow numbers (like I said, Jeff doesn't appear to want to be in the middle of this - don't blame him!), but he did mention that they basically used the Edelbrock CNC program.  But if it's using essentially the same CNC program, the end result should have the same shape runners, chamber, etc, so it should flow the same, right?  Well, with the exception of the plug angle, but that probably wouldn't matter much for flow, right?

That was the "rumor" flying around before the heads were in production. Supposedly very similar to the Eddy's in terms of flow and volume, with a few structural changes.

Thanks for the update Defiance, and thanks for posting the flow numbers for the Ported Eddy heads.

[my73charger]

Seriously I have a hard time believing that 440Source would chance selling and shipping out heads that have all of these "assumed" issues.  They would be putting their reputation and bank account on the line.  I find it hard to believe they would take such a gamble.  Musicman is right on this, reacting to hearsay is rediculous and you know what they say about assuming, when you assume you make an ass out of u and me