Questions

[dkn1997]

I'd like some input from any of you who have gone through a divorce.  I have, but as a child.  When I was 3 my parents split up.  For you guys who are divorced with small kids, I have a few questions;

-Before you divorced, did you find yourself thinking you should stick with it for the kids?  I know everyone says you shouldn't, but I want to know what you divorced guys say.

I don't know how it's going to end up for me, but it's not going all that great.  Been married for almost 11 years, have 2 kids, girl 7 and boy 3.5.  I live for them and I cannot for the life of me imagine not seeing the every day.  Theres no drugs or alcohol abuse involved, but with her temper and disposition, i feel I am the only calming influence in their lives.  I am not out to trash the mrs, but she has issues that are more than just on the surface with bad temper, lack of patience with me or the kids, etc... 

Clearly, i wil get tossed out... and I worry about them only having her around day in and day out snipping at them getting angry over the littlest things. 

I know this thread is all over the place, and maybe not appropriate for this board, but I just want to hear from anyone who has gone through a similar situation. 

[Charger-Bodie]

I think only you can truly answer these questions , but Ive been thru a divorce with children involved and I will say this much If she is owly now its probably not gonna change with a divorce .I personally think people give up too easy nowadays . are you both willing to seak counseling? I personally would only say divorce her if you have really exhausted all channels to try to save the marriage for the sake of the kids.

[Shakey]

I often wonder if sometimes sticking it out for the childrens sake cand do more harm than good?  What would it be like for the children on a day-to-day basis to see their mother and father unhappy with each other all the time?  At the same time, I see that you may need to stick it out to keep some sanity in the home.  These are some very difficult decisons you'll need to make.  Your children are still very young and although they will have a very difficult time adapting, they will make it.  If the children were a bit older, say in their early teens when they may need a bit more guidance, or a differnt type of guidance, I'd say stick it out for a couple of years until they have their feet firmly planted on the ground.  i think if you try to stck it out and do end up splitting in a few years, it may be more difficult for them.

As Brian had stated, counselling is a good place to start, whether it be together or say just for your wife.  Maybe she needs to find out why she is feeling the way she is.

This thread is just fine for this board, we are your friends and would like to help.

Hang in there.

[dkn1997]

I have suggested counselling, in fact, begged her to go. No go.  If I even try to discuss her temper, she said if I would just not forget things like leaving the computer at night, turning the kids light off before I go to bed, etc..then she would not have such a short fuse. 

I decided to go myself and I have been for the last 2 months.  I was hoping that just seeing me go would have en effect, but it has not.  i feel really funning being the only single guy in the waiting room at the marriage shrinks office.  I am trying to not piss her off, writing myself notes trying not to forget things, but it does not seem to help.

Part B is that I do deserve to be happy and not walk around on eggshells in my own house or be afraid to go home for fear of what I will be walking into...but I put that up against how  it is for the kids to have to deal with the same crap.  who is going to stick up for them if I am gone. I know it's not good for them to see 2 people who do not get along, but is it better to leave them alone with someone who loses their temper badly if the kid spills goldfish crackers on the rug? 

I go out in public and I watch a lot of people, I really pay close attention to how couples interact and i see some people who downright hate each other and stay together.  I don't want to become one of those miserable old bastards who hates the wife and realize they should have gotten out 20 years before. 

I am giving it a go and I am not giving up, but it's getting harder and harder when I feel like I am the only one who is doing something about it.

[Shakey]

You can't give up - your children need you.  As far as going for counselling yourself - good for you.

As is always the case, there is more to it than she is letting on.  You may need to get a bit tough with her and tell her you'd like need to know what's really bothering her, deep down.  That way you two can start to fix things.

Does she work?

Does she have a network of girlfriends or someone she is close to (mother, sister etc.)

[Charger-Bodie]

Have you tried to get away together so you can really try to hammer things out without the children around? MIght be a major screaming session but it is always easier to find answer if you now what the problem is.

[dkn1997]

Unfortunately, she has no friends, despite working for a large company in NYC.  Any person who is a possible friend candidate always does something to piss her off or she won't give that person a chance in the firs place.  She is tight with her mom and her sister.  The sister has told her to go to counseling and actually takes my side in most of it.  As for going away, I would love to.  but...she never wants to go anywhere and do anything with me.  even if it's with the kids, it's like pulling teeth because she is afraid about the little one acting up in public and her having to "deal" with him.  through my job, I got $500.00 worth of gift certificates to an extremely nice steakhouse and they have been sitting on the counter for 5 months because every time I say lets go, she comes up with a reason not to. 

[69bronzeT5]

-Before you divorced, did you find yourself thinking you should stick with it for the kids?  I know everyone says you shouldn't, but I want to know what you divorced guys say.

My mom did the exact same thing. Stuck with my dad for mine and my sister's sake. She said its the worse mistake she made, it only made her life worse

[dkn1997]

-Before you divorced, did you find yourself thinking you should stick with it for the kids?  I know everyone says you shouldn't, but I want to know what you divorced guys say.

My mom did the exact same thing. Stuck with my dad for mine and my sister's sake. She said its the worse mistake she made, it only made her life worse

..but how did it make your life? better or worse?

[69bronzeT5]

Depends, the yelling stopped completely after my dad left and honestley, I didnt feel as stressed from the yelling. I honestley think its better now without my dad here yelling and everything, just one thing that sucks, no one to help with the Charger.

[andy74]

i hate to even bring this up my friend,but lately me and the wife have been going through the same thing,my problem is that i work 85 or 90 hoursa week,and she is an addict who got clean 6 years ago,and i worry every time she leave the house that shell fall off the wagon,had a few times in the last year where she did and i always forgive,maybe im the dumb one?i love my wife very much and have tried to go to a therapist with her,and with out but it hasnt been real easy- actually we talked christmas day and i laid it on the line,if there was one more time i was leaving with my kids-so far so good but if you need to talk im with ya brother,pm me and we can talk on the phone too 

[no318]

I'm glad you are thinking about the kids.  Many people think only about their OWN wants and desires.  I respect you for that.   

[Charger-Bodie]

I'm glad you are thinking about the kids.  Many people think only about their OWN wants and desires.  I respect you for that.   

That is for sure!! Way too many people are just that way 

[PocketThunder]

Mom and Dad split when i was 6, brother 4, sister 2.  Divorce was the norm in the early 80's.  We adapted to the situation and now all of us are in good marraiges or good relations with our significant others.  It taught us about the bad things that can happen and how to aviod those things and make it work. 
I would say try one more time to work it out and then file only if you have a legitimate shot at getting custody of your kids.  There is a good chance that she is going to start dating the "bad guy boyfriend" (that all women want), who will treat your kids like sh!t and smoke pot all day.. 

Paul
in St. Paul

[skip68]

It sounds to me that she is not happy with herself.    She also may be having an early change in life.  Good luck and try and make calm decisions and do your best to shelter the kids from the adult talk.     I hope things work out for you and your family.      Chuck...............

[Really?]

I'm not divorced, parents are still together (since 1962), but I have a younger sister that acts similar to what you are describing in your wife's behavior. Neither my other sister or brother want anything to do with her, and I won't even talk to her on the phone (my wife cannot stand her and nobody can blame my wife). Both of my parents will outwardly say that she is bi-polar; I could tell stories here that would make many folks just shake their heads, however I am not that petty. Your wife sounds frustrated and unhappy; I would try to nip that in the bud before it really starts to spiral out and the only thing to do is split or stay in an unhealthy situation. I do admire your efforts for trying to improve your family life, wish and hope you the best.

[Forza]

I agree with what everyone else has said, you are dong an admirable job sticking it out. It really sounds to be that she is bi-polar or under a great deal of stress with juggling work & kids or just unhappy with where she is at in life. I may have missed it but how long has this been going on? Bi-polar isn't something that just happens overnight but maybe with having your 2nd child she seems to feel that maybe she's doing too much. Which would explain why she doesn't want to go out because she feels she will be the one to do everything if the children misbehave. I'm not trying to say you don't help out, just trying to try and get both angles.

But getting mad at the kids for being kids is ridiculous, kids are meant to get dirty or occasionally get in trouble. The things that they do now that irritate her/you, you will look back at and laugh 10-15 years from now. One thing I would try and do is talk to the mom and sister to see if she will tell them what's going on. Another thing that might go well is get her a certificate to a spa or something else that she may enjoy to do alone. Then after awhile try and see if she will go out with just you and her for a date night and see how it goes. I know I'm no counselor or Psychiatrist, just trying to think of ways that would help you out.

Just my  from an outsidr looking in. Good luck to you and the kids, you really are doing a great job.

[dkn1997]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the support.  I had never actually considered that she could be mentally ill/bi polar.  I will have to look into that to see if she has more of the symptoms.  I grew up in a house where it was a knock down drag out every night, all of it alcohol fueled.  I swore my kids would never have to go through that.  neither one of us is a big drinker, so that's not an issue, and we never really yell and scream at each other.  It's the constant negativity towards them and the huge over-reaction to normal "kid' mistakes too.  I know my friends and family see it and it's uncomfortable for them.  Although they would never hurt my feelings by saying it outright, i know they don't particularly like being around her.  I do notice hat the invites to do stuff have dropped off over the years. I cannot blame them.   We never do anything out of the house either.  I have friends and family spread out all over the state and the kids and I love the road trips on weekends to see them. she does not, so I only get to do it now about 1-2 times a year, and even then there are so many "rules" attached to the trip that I am stressed out the whole time wondering what's going to blow up if me, the kids, my friends, or the relatives stray from the "plan"

I don't know what's going to happen, but I do know this: every guy I have ever talked to who split up with the wife said the same thing: they all did it way too late and they feel the years they spent in a one sided effort to fix it were wasted and you cannot get that time back.

[dodgecharger-fan]

Lot's of great advice here and I'd echo some of it - there's something wrong with your wife - and I don't mean she's bad, I mean there's some underlying reason that makes her so negative. Rather than marriage counseling, I think she needs to see a shrink to work out what the problems are. It may not be anything horrible, but something she's internalized and hasn't dealt with.

As for you sticking it out, my first instinct would be to stay to protect the kids - run blocker for all that negativity.
I know the kids are young, but they're not stupid. As sappy as it sounds, it might be good to see one of the kids ask her in the heat of the moment, "Mommy? Why are you so angry?"
It might be the kicker that makes her realize that it's er and not you or them that has the problem.

I know this is a long shot, but you should also start documenting things as much as possible. It may help if you go into a custody battle.

As for my experiences, I won't go in to details, but I've seen this internalization problem first hand. When it gets sorted out, life is so much better.

[daves68]

First of all, I don't know how it works in NY, but in Wisconsin you do not have to leave. My x had a BF and told me she was filing and that I had to get out. Lawyer said NOT. If there is no hitting or cop calls, I can stay . Moved down to the rec room. She packed up and went. Check it out there. Bigger than that though is the kid(s). I couldn't bear the thought of leaving my daughter with her and her drugger BF so the court fight began. Although mom won the first battle, I won the war. It took 2 yrs but I got her out of it. Point is that you have to do whats best for the kid, even if it makes you unhappy for a while. You are the adult and the kids need your support and to know that you will always be there for them. Daughter is now 23 and a college grad, no thanks to mom. I makes me cringe even thinking about what would have happened to her had I not gone to bat for her. Hang in there buddy, you'll get through it. We'll help ya here.

[pettyfan43]

My wife and I have been separated for a few months now, It has been really tough. We have been together for about 9 years, and our anniversary ( will be in April.

She packed up and went home to her Mom and Dad's.

I have been told so many stories as to WHY, that I have no CLUE WHY. I know she seemed like she was happy up until this past September, she thought I was not spending enough time with her, but I have been working TWO jobs AND trying to get my Bachelor's degree. Some of my classes are online, so I kinda HAVE to be in front of the computer!!!

I don't know if it comes down to the "7 year itch" or what, but she now has a job there (about 100 miles away)  and we seem to get along better now than we did when we were married the past couple years.  I don't know why or how, but at least there are no kids involved, because she is not able to carry to full term.

I think she feels guilt about that, but she shouldn't, I accepted that fact and am fine with it.

WHo knows WHY things happen like they do? BUt I wish you all the luck in the world.

Some of the stuff sounds familiar. Like not willing to try to find friends, and always had some excuse as to why she couldn't be friends with people she worked with.
Generally it came down to excuses and her not being willing to open up and try.

Good luck to you and I really hope things work out for you!


Chris

[Magnumcharger]

Not to re-iterate other people's sound advice, just amplify on part of it.
The talk of bi-polar sounds absolutely correct. Also, she sounds like she might be suffering from depression (something I know a lot about).
Mental illness is not something that makes itself immediately disternable. Often it is masked by other actions or attitudes, ones that seem to have other meanings.
Your wife's unexplainable irrationality may have developed over time, as many mental conditions do.
The best solution for you is not to blame yourself for causing the circumstance, or to accept responsibilty for her condition. If you love her (and I'm assuming you do), then explore the possibility of getting her some help.

[bull]

It might help some to identify the type of anger you think she has. Is it a paranoid type of anger (reacting to paranoid suspicions with anger)? Is she trying to control everyone and everything? To some people it's kind of an addiction; they get a sort of high by experiencing the emotions associated with angry outbursts. If there's any way to get her to go to counseling that would be a huge bonus and she can start down the road to getting the help she needs (unless it's paranoia because she won't trust the counselor). It sounds like it might be a condition such as depression that can be managed with medication if she's willing to understand that her negative outbursts are not warranted or rational.

Unfortunately some people have to sink pretty low before they will seek help. I don't know how low she will go before she realizes it's not everyone else that's the problem but hopefully there's a way for you and maybe her sister to convince her she needs help. At any rate I commend you for wanting to stick it out and for getting counseling yourself. As long as you have an outlet to discuss the issue you're way ahead of the game.

There's a funny but very poignant poster put out by despair.com that says, "Dysfunction: The only consistant feature of all your dissatisfying relationships is you." How true is that? I can never understand people who can't figure out why everyone else is the problem. Hello! It's you! You're the problem! Wouldn't it be less work to change your own behavior instead of trying to change everyone else's? But the thing is they're never satisfied. There will always be something to be angry about because nothing is ever perfect.

Check this out (from the link below):
Relationship Between Anger and Depression
*In a study of anger attacks at two sites, 67% of patients with depression met the criteria for anger attacks (R.A. Gould, 1996)
*the greater the degree of sadness (depression), the greater the anger
*a patient who scored at the 75th percentile on the Beck Depression Inventory ( BDI; a score of 22) was 3.2 times more likely to have anger attacks than a patient who scored at the 25th percentile (a score of 8.0)
*also, patients with anger attacks were significantly more depressed than patients without such attacks

I'm not Catholic but it seems to be a pretty good article: http://catholiceducation.org/articles/parenting/pa0109.html

[dkn1997]

Bull, you hit it on the head with control I think. She definately wants to control everything and have it all be perfect and misake free.  Zero tolerance for any situation that disrupts the "plan"

Someone mentioned about people not getting help until they hit a low point.  I think it's the same with drug addicts/alcoholics too.  It all depends on what a low point is for that person, though, we all have different tolerances.  one person's low might be living on the street, where anothers' is when they still have a job, but thier family/friends won't talk to them.  I wonder what my wife's low is.. maybe it's when I pack my shit and leave?   maybe it's when I tell her I will leave if she does not get help?  I don't know.  Since I have pleaded with her to seek help, I am getting to a place where I am done asking. 

Worst case, if it all goes in the shitter, she will end up with the kids.  Her dad has money and my family does not.  She will be able to afford a way better lawyer than me, plus the natural bias in favor of women in these cases.  That's the part that kills me the most.  I can live with her taking all of my stuff and money, selling the charger, whatever.  but not seeing my kids every day will kill me. plus being 38 and on the "market" again makes me want to puke.

[74-StreetMachine]

   I don't know how ethical this would be but why don't you set up a video camera and let it run for a couple of hours. Hopefully you can catch one of her tirades on tape. Then have someone "in the know" analyze her actions on the tape. Maybe they can figure out what her problem is?

Who knows, maybe you'll need that tape for evidence someday.

But don't do something stupid like show it to your friends or upload it to YouTube.

As far as being on the market at 38,don't give up so easily.   I've had quite a few relationships and they never worked out. The last one ended in 2000. I had just turned 40 and figured that if I hadn't found a woman by now, I probably never will. So I just quit looking. I'm 48 now, and two years ago, by chance, I met a wonderful woman. So don't give up, if you get divorced there are other women out there.