The future is now, get ready for Hydrogen fuel cell cars.

[kylem4711]

Don't forget that these same Tree Hugging people are the ones who drive the big SUV's , love their PC's and Laptops , and use all the other products that waste energy, create more pollution to power , or end up in land fills .
How can anyone honestly say that they are a Greenie then own a Musclecar ? I guess you ease your conscience by saying you do other things so you can spoil yourself.

tree hugging?   

i never said i was a greenie either.  I just said that i do a lot of other things, so i own a muscle car.  is it right?  nope, but thats how it is.


u need to get that hate out of your heart. 

[rav440]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

you should have stopped at " i dont think " if you belive he "uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists " what he uses is very scued scare tactic twisted points of scince or scince fiction . he twists facts more than michael moore could ever dream of . 
. yes the planet if warming as it happens in a cycle of every 175 K or so years we just came out of a mini ice age in the early 1900s that lasted over 1000 years and as we speek the sun is moving closer to the earth , on dec 21 2012 the sun will be the closest it has ever been to the earth ever . do you think perhaps that may be a reason for the accellerated warming 
man has nothing to do with warming and theres nothing we can do to change it . think why was the middle east and northern affrica once a tropical place ? why is greenland made of ice while iceland is green  because the earth goes thru changes of warming and cooling .

"whats his agenda? " hmmm  lets go back to the early to mid 90s when he first started his little tree hugging adventure . clear cutting was out lawed " wich i argee with " but anyway the price of lumber went thru the roof so counstruction of houses went to metal studs , what the big deal you ask  zinc is used in the the galvanizing process . hmmm , what do you suppose big al had investments in ?

" whats his agenda? " the almighty $ thats his AGENDA .

read watch listen learn . do not follow one blindly and belive his word to be fact .

[kylem4711]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

you should have stopped at " i dont think " if you belive he "uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists " what he uses is very scued scare tactic twisted points of scince or scince fiction . he twists facts more than michael moore could ever dream of . 
. yes the planet if warming as it happens in a cycle of every 175 K or so years we just came out of a mini ice age in the early 1900s that lasted over 1000 years and as we speek the sun is moving closer to the earth , on dec 21 2012 the sun will be the closest it has ever been to the earth ever . do you think perhaps that may be a reason for the accellerated warming 
man has nothing to do with warming and theres nothing we can do to change it . think why was the middle east and northern affrica once a tropical place ? why is greenland made of ice while iceland is green  because the earth goes thru changes of warming and cooling .

"whats his agenda? " hmmm  lets go back to the early to mid 90s when he first started his little tree hugging adventure . clear cutting was out lawed " wich i argee with " but anyway the price of lumber went thru the roof so counstruction of houses went to metal studs , what the big deal you ask  zinc is used in the the galvanizing process . hmmm , what do you suppose big al had investments in ?

" whats his agenda? " the almighty $ thats his AGENDA .

read watch listen learn . do not follow one blindly and belive his word to be fact .

you feel better now bud?   ha   

you have your view on this and i have mine.

i could reply, but id rather go out.

[1969chargerrtse]

Don't forget that these same Tree Hugging people are the ones who drive the big SUV's , love their PC's and Laptops , and use all the other products that waste energy, create more pollution to power , or end up in land fills .
How can anyone honestly say that they are a Greenie then own a Musclecar ? I guess you ease your conscience by saying you do other things so you can spoil yourself.

tree hugging?   

i never said i was a greenie either.  I just said that i do a lot of other things, so i own a muscle car.  is it right?  nope, but thats how it is.


u need to get that hate out of your heart. 

Nothing wrong with owning a muscle car.  You should see the waste big corps do everyday, just throwing tons of things that could be recycled, ain't nothing wrong with a owning a Muscle car.

[Mike DC]

I agree. 

Personal cars/trucks are generally only a fraction of the overall CO2 problem. 
And the impact of vintage hot rods like ours is extremely tiny on the worldwide picture. 

We don't even burn enough gas in these things every year to let fuel prices steer us away from running 500" carbureted motors and 4.10 gears. 

[dkn1997]

go nuke baby!!  use the energy to make all the hydrogen or electicity you want.  take all of the current resources devoted to making gas/diesel more efficient and dump that huge pot of money into making nuclear power even safer.  The biggest concern would getting rid of the waste.  come up with a foolproof way to blast it into space and fly it into the sun and problem solved. Hell, figure out an ejecion seat type of scenario to blast the whole works into space if it starts melting down!!

Think of what would be possible if all the scattered resources devoted to saving energy using fossil fuels, etc were devoted to one type of energy saving strategy (nuke or whatever you want) ?  When that type of talent, effort, and money is put towards one single goal, anything is possible. how do you think they put a man on the moon almost 40 years ago with computers that were less powerful than the computer you are using right now?  it was a concentrated united effort by thousands of people with an unlimited budget, problem solved. it's a matter of importance.  Getting to the moon first was job 1 because we felt we needed to beat the russians there.

You would have to make it much safer than it is now, even though it's currently really safe, but nuclear energy, in my mind, if feasible.   

[The70RT]

It was in our local paper yesterday that BNSF is now making a hydrogen fuel cell switch locomotive in our town.

[kylem4711]

the company i work for,  edison,  is doing on site research for hydrogen fuel cell cars.


they posted this article today too.

State's 'hydrogen highway' may be out of gas

By Kimberly Kindy, MEDIANEWS SACRAMENTO BUREAU
1092 words
01/10/2008
The Oakland Tribune
English
(c) Copyright 2008 ANG Newspapers. All rights reserved.
SACRAMENTO — Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's vision of a "hydrogen highway" — 100 fueling stations by 2010 that would make it practical for California motorists to use nonpolluting hydrogen-powered fuel-cell vehicles — has hit a roadblock.

Each of the last three agencies that received state funding to build a fueling station has decided not to pursue the project, including Pacific Gas & Electric Co., which recently decided to abandon building a key Bay Area fueling station in San Carlos.

In addition, three stations have recently closed, including one in Richmond that served county buses and was dismantled this week.

That means the state is now down to 23 stations amid concerns that the technology is not viable in the near future and that it might be many more years before consumers have any real access to the vehicles that are now used mostly by government agencies in demonstration projects.

PG&E's decision to turn down

$1.5 million in state funds to build a large-scale, retail hydrogen station in San Carlos is especially noteworthy. The site was supposed to serve as a hub for hundreds of Mercedes-Benz's passenger vehicles that were going to be leased next year in Northern California — the first significant effort to make the vehicles available to the public.

Instead, PG&E officials said they've shifted hydrogen to the back stage and now consider it a distant technology, with electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids moving to the front of the line.

"Things have changed," said Jill Egbert, manager of PG&Es Clean Air Transportation division. "We feel hydrogen is a long-term solution, but there is no one technology that will be the silver bullet to meet transportation needs. From a resource standpoint, we feel a more pressing need to see how electric vehicles will affect our grid."

Hydrogen is a colorless, odorless gas. A fuel cell uses electricity harnessed from an electrochemical reaction involving hydrogen and oxygen to power the vehicle's motor. The new generation of hydrogen cars will be able to run for about 250 miles before refueling.

Environmental experts and automakers said the developments present statewide threats to the future of the hydrogen highway.

"This is a significant change in attitude. People are simply refusing to participate, even if they get money from the state. If state officials don't step in the hydrogen highway could collapse," said V. John White, executive director of the Center for Energy Efficiency & Renewable Technologies.

The setbacks have prompted Mary Nichols, who chairs the California Air Resources Board, to hold a meeting today in Sacramento with automakers, energy companies and members of the California Fuel Cell Partnership — a group of state and private interests working on the hydrogen highway program.

"We will be going over the status of the stations and talking about the commitments that have been made," said Nichols, who will represent the Schwarzenegger administration at the meeting.

Nichols characterized the problems as a "hiccup," and said she is "not surprised that it is taking a bit longer to get everything in place."

Analisa Bevan, who oversees the hydrogen program for the Air Resources Board, said it's been difficult to get companies to compete for the state funds, and then follow through.

In addition to PG&E, the state awarded over $1 million in funds each to San Diego Unified School District and California State University, Los Angeles, to build stations that fell through.

PG&E's Egbert said that because "no money has changed hands" her company is not obligated to build the station. However, Bevan said, in the case of PG&E, the state has a signed contract with the company, and the state is attempting to force PG&E to follow through on construction.

PG&E also owns one of the three hydrogen stations that have shut down. The site in San Francisco fueled three Mercedes-Benz's hydrogen cars used by PG&E. The Richmond station was owned by Hydrogenics Corp.

AC Transit has used the Richmond station for several years to fuel three hydrogen-powered buses used in its fleet and 10 passenger vehicles. The station had fallen into disrepair in December, and its daily production of hydrogen was no longer enough to fuel even one bus, said Jaime Levin, director of alternative fuels policy with the transit district.

Hydrogenics Corp. recently decided to pull out of operating the station.

"It doesn't fit with our current business priorities," said Robert McGillivray, the company's director for corporate development. "We design, sell and market hydrogen generation equipment."

Levin said the buses will be fueled at a hydrogen station it has in Oakland. AC Transit is also looking for another site, perhaps in Emeryville, since it is in the getting eight new buses. "They are lighter and will travel even further than the current buses."

William Craven, a general manager for Mercedes-Benz USA, said PG&E's moves might kill the company's plans to lease its cars to a more mainstream audience in the Bay Area. The company research headquarters, in Palo Alto, was also counting on the San Carlos station to help fuel test vehicles.

General Motors, which is rolling out its own line of hydrogen cars this year, said the trend is troubling and might also cripple its plans in Northern California.

"We are looking to cluster them in metropolitan areas like the Bay Area, and San Jose is a key for us," Britta Gross, manager of Hydrogen and Electrical Infrastructure for GM. "When you have large, modern stations failing to be built, that means others will not follow. The network doesn't spread."

There is one station in San Jose used exclusively to fuel three buses for the Santa Clara Transportation Authority. The program is expected to expand in 2009, although it will still be used for the bus line and plans are still being developed.

Several automakers plan to roll out hydrogen vehicles over the next two years, but they are all counting on drivers living or working within a few miles of an operating station.

American Honda and Mercedes-Benz plans on having a three-year lease at the cost of about $600 a month. GM is offering the car, for those who qualify, for free on a three-year lease.

[RD]

 
Yeah, I agree that we probably will build more nuclear plants.  We've got the raw uranium on US soil and we've got the facilities to enrich it.  And the big nuclear disaster scares of the past probably won't be such a factor in people's perceptions anymore since we've gone so long without an incident.  Homer Simpson is a scary thought in everyone's mind, but the fact is that he's been successful at keeping Springfield meltdown-free since the 1970s. 


It's not a perfect solution.  But IMO our radioactive nuclear waste may not end up doing any greater damage to the world than our "safe" ways of making power are doing. 

this is true.. nuke plants are alot safer, especially since they have started to use a special type of ceramic coating on the control rods "scram rods".  This will allow the reactor, if a coolant failure to take place, to actually reach critical mass without overheating the core, thus causing a meltdown.. e.g. chernobyl