US PARTS MFG

[chargerpeople]

Hi ,

I cant help buy notice all the hype and enthusiasm over certain new parts mfg's to our hobby  ,, I have a question regarding these super teriffic dynamo's ?

It seems thay have a quality part ( no question) but my query is this !

1. how many cars ( honestly)  are left un restored ?
2. why are they making parts currently available from other sources ?
3. how can it possibly be a wise desicion to spend hundreds of thousands of $$$$$$$ ( possibly millions $$$ ) to make parts for a very small specialized market that is already well established .. Where does alll this $$$ come from  SBA loans and grants???
Wher is it going ? ,,, It's Going over sea's to CHINA or thialand , indonesia  ? this money will likely never be recovered !!!!!!!!!! the market is toooooo small !!

GEE that must be good for US MFG's, making parts for USA made cars FOR YOU !!  NOT


I'm just saying " lets not forget the people right here in the USA , making parts right here in the USA that have done a lot of work to support our hobby" !! For YEARS AND YEARS !!

Charger people Rule !!

Let's keep it that way......................

[RD]

 

this belongs in off topic, no offense, you didnt know

*edit* it belongs there because this is "bitch" related instead of being actually car related... you are ranting on your opinion rather than speaking about something charger specific... i.e. promoting a certain brand of body panels because you used them on your vehicle and they work properly... if that was the case then this is the right area....

but... you didnt... hence... it should be in off topic.. or rather locked or deleted... but that is just my 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

I cant help buy notice all the hype and enthusiasm over certain new parts mfg's to our hobby  ,, I have a question regarding these super teriffic dynamo's ?

It seems thay have a quality part ( no question) but my query is this !

The "hype and enthusiasm" has to do with the fact that the Mopar hobby finally has some decent reproduction parts to aid in the restoration of the old muscle & specialty cars.  After 25 years of putting up with crappy parts because they were "better than nothing", there are finally companies stepping up to the plate with parts made to the original specs, as good as originals (better in some cases).  I for one am tired of ill fitting, poorly made junk like we have endured.  Some reproductions were passable, like the ACC carpet... but a lot (especially sheetmetal) was only worth using as a last resort... IMO!

1. how many cars ( honestly)  are left un restored ?

I have over 10 Mopars needing restoration, and I have started buying the high quality reproduction parts for many of them...

I personally know of 100s of old Mopars needing restoration, and many of the cars with the early "reproduction" parts will probably need to be redone in 15-20 years... if not sooner.

2. why are they making parts currently available from other sources ?

Because companies like AMD realize that a lot of people would rather spend $700 for a quality repro quarter panel than $200 for a partial skin that takes 20 hours longer for the bodyman to make work (@ $45-$75 per hour) and leaves a visible repair seam (which might be able to be concealed for another 10 hours @ $45-$75 per hour...).

3. how can it possibly be a wise desicion to spend hundreds of thousands of $$$$$$$ ( possibly millions $$$ ) to make parts for a very small specialized market that is already well established .. Where does alll this $$$ come from  SBA loans and grants???
Wher is it going ? ,,, It's Going over sea's to CHINA or thialand , indonesia  ? this money will likely never be recovered !!!!!!!!!! the market is toooooo small !!

That might be a valid point, but I assume they have done their business case analysis for their product line... 

I am fairly certain that the money comes from the company owners pocket... do you know otherwise or are you just 

I believe that most of the production is being done in Taiwan, although other overseas sites are possible as well...    Some items like CBD's full Charger quarter panels & other sheetmetal is being produced in the USA... buy your quarter panels from them... I DID!

The companies involved may lose money in the end... that is another reason that I am buying the parts now, while they are available!

I'm just saying " lets not forget the people right here in the USA , making parts right here in the USA that have done a lot of work to support our hobby" !! For YEARS AND YEARS !!

Given a reasonable choice, I would go with "Made In USA" parts...  Buying an ill fitting POS resin part over a high quality injection molded part is not a reasonable option IMO!  Thin guage poorly formed sheetmetal that takes a lot of $$$$$$$$$ to install, and even then is a problem child, is not a reasonable use of my hard earned $ either!

I have no connection to any vendor other than buying parts... how about you? 

XS

[skip68]

Dam well put xs29j8bullitt.   

[Troy]

I have no connection to any vendor other than buying parts... how about you? 

XS

Pretty astute... how about:
Russ Dyer
Charger Specialties

Answers:
#1 A lot more than are restored.
#2 Because some of the stuff available from other sources just plain sucks. As for the good stuff, I don't know, you'll have to ask one of new dynamos. Does this have anything to do with hood turn signals?
#3 Again, I have no idea but some bean counter somewhere determined that they could make money.

The enthusiasm is warranted in my opinion because people who love these cars have been waiting literally for years to have halfway decent parts to build their cars. I doubt that too many people care where they are made as long as A. someone makes them and B. they fit right. It's sad but waiting on some US manufacturer to jump in and make good stuff has been mostly futile. That's not to say that the parts that are bing made (here) are all junk or that they aren't appreciated - there just aren't enough parts being made and that's why people are getting excited.

Troy

[xs29j8Bullitt]

I have no connection to any vendor other than buying parts... how about you? 

XS

Pretty astute... how about:
Russ Dyer
Charger Specialties

Amazingly, I had a hunch the thread was related to that vendor...

In the early 1980s I lost my first job due to foreign competition, which was partly financed by US grants to develop Brazilian industry.  So, I am not a fan of buying from overseas... but after 25 years, with a few exceptions, US manufacturers were NOT producing the high quality reproductions needed.

To sum it up... "better than nothing" is no longer good enough!

XS

[bull]

Ahhh, Charger Specialties. Not to bash but since you gave us the rationale... Charger Specialties has been sitting on its laurels for too long, offering little in the way of product expansion for years. In the five years since I re-entered the hobby your offerings have remained pretty much static. Meanwhile, those who wanted our business (instead of getting it by default) caught you and passed you in just about every way possible. Whose fault is that? Ours? Your website is archaic at best and probably 50% or more of the products you stock aren't even Charger specific. You bash on other people for making redundant parts and yet ignore all the other parts being made that you don't, can't and won't offer. When I visit a website called "Charger Specialties" I kind of expect to see parts for Chargers that I can't find elsewhere, instead I can usually find all the same stuff you have on just about every other Mopar vendor's site on the web. I may have certain issues with some of the parts being made by these new "dynamo" companies but at least they're being made and the owners of these companies are busting their humps to make them. The thing is, I and many other Charger owners at least like to have the opportunity to choose between something and nothing. Choosing between nothing and nothing has gotten very old.

Instead of bitching because you're getting your butts kicked By PG Classic and BE/A, why not get back in the game?

[Chatt69chgr]

Well, Peter Gee (in Canada) and his US distributor, Mike Ross, saw a market niche and decided to fill it.  And look at all the wonderful parts that they now have for us.  Stuff that in your wildest dreams you thought would never be reproduced.  I appaud them for their efforts.  This means that many, many more Chargers and other old vintage Mopars will now be saved from oblivion.  People on this board and other Mopar Forums have literally been crying for some of the parts.  But, alas, nobody offered them--------leastways---------been that way 'till now.  If a US manufacturer offers the same part and it is competitively priced, then I would consider buying it first.  I am not going to get involved in the reasons why these parts are not made here.  We all know what they are.  I am just glad I can now get them.
If Charger Specialties doesn't like the competition from Peter Gee, then they can develop sources across the globe themselves.  Please note that I have supported Charger Specialties.  I bought the tic-toc-tach and the hood mounted turn signals from them.  Might have bought some more stuff if they had it.  How come they didn't offer a good dash pad or a set of upper door pads or headrests or seatbelts, etc, etc.  Crying now after the cow got out because you forgot to shut the barn door is a waste of time.  Get busy and offer some of these products you know that we want.  And as Forrest Gump always said, "and that's all I have to say about that".   

[moparstuart]

  I needed some stuff from charger specialties but now i think i will look else where 

[bull]

Oops. Backfire.

[TUFCAT]

So much for being clever, ..... Not much can get past Troy ----he knows (and sees) all.   

[gtx6970]

#3 Again, I have no idea but some bean counter somewhere determined that they HOPE it makes money.

Fixed that for ya

[Troy]

#3 Again, I have no idea but some bean counter somewhere determined that they HOPE it makes money.

Fixed that for ya

Hey, I said "could" - not "will". I could be a millionaire tomorrow and I hope it happens. I'm not gonna quit my job just yet though...

Troy

[chargerpeople]

hi,
Why does it matter who i am ..
This is a discussion board < I am merely trying to start a discussion. If i was interested in hiding who i am i couold have used a new email adress or something. I know the moderators on this board are not stupid..
I asked the  questions, for feedback !!
I would love to give you my opinions about all this , Is anyone interested???

Just because i am associated with vendor does not mean my opinions should be squashed or mute, I am a person too, All of us vendors should not have to walk on our tippy toes on these forums. i can asure you i am not the only one out there lurking . most wont say anything to avoid a bashing session.

Russ

[Charger-Bodie]

[quote Just because i am associated with vendor does not mean my opinions should be squashed or mute, I am a person too, All of us vendors should not have to walk on our tippy toes on these forums. i can asure you i am not the only one out there lurking . most wont say anything to avoid a bashing session.

Russ

Seems like a good plan to me , either troll around un-noticed or come right out and say who you are and avoid ridicule.

[Troy]

Actually we do have several vendors who spend time on the forums - and some actually contribute tech advice and help out fellow members. Many do not advertise who they are and that is perfectly fine. Not all of them have a history of attempting to fool the members though (yeah, I know that was the old site but most of us have good memories). Very few - if any - start topics about the industry without explaining their stake in it. That was my point.

Here's my take - I prefer vendors who make a quality product, treat their customers fairly, and care about the hobby as a whole. I rarely buy from vendors who feel the need to tell me how bad another vendor's product is, or how they are ruining the hobby, or how they are evil for supporting the worldwide economy. It's simple to me - make a better product and I'll buy it. Now, a "normal" guy with no stake in the matter has every right to praise or spout off about products and services based on their experience. Someone in the industry will have a hard time hiding their bias so it's proper to give at least some background. Otherwise it looks like a plant just to stir people up (commonly called trolling).

Back on topic, I really don't care where the stuff is made as long as the quality control is there. I really don't care if the company can sustain their business (many companies in many industries can't - see GM, Ford). It's not my duty to prop up a poorly run business or one based on a poorly planned business model. I will do what I can if the company meets the criteria I posted above.

As stated already, people are tired of buying poor fitting, low quality parts OR overpaying for used junk just because that's all that exists. If an acceptable product is manufactured people will buy it - irregardless of where it was made.

Troy

[dkn1997]

Even if there were not many left unrestored (doubt it, but lets say your'e right for the sake of argument)  I would say that there are a ton of "restored" cars out there that were not done right in the first place and probably need new quarters again, or new x,y, or z part because during the original "restoration" the proper part was not being reproduced and a factory part was refurbished and is now just plain worn out.

[TUFCAT]

With some "reproduction parts companies" out there..... I would not buy anything until I actually saw the part first. Sadly, this is also true for some parts that MCG has endorsed over the years. That's what Carlisle and the other big shows are for...seeing, touching, smelling, whatever, the parts before you buy them.  Without endorsing other companies by name (but I think we know who they are) - - if they made it - I will buy it - and it will be good. Period.    Some of the other so called "reproduction" stuff leaves a guy no choice but hold out for high-dollar NOS pieces.....and that's why NOS has always been in such demand. 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Even if there were not many left unrestored (doubt it, but lets say your'e right for the sake of argument)  I would say that there are a ton of "restored" cars out there that were not done right in the first place and probably need new quarters again, or new x,y, or z part because during the original "restoration" the proper part was not being reproduced and a factory part was refurbished and is now just plain worn out.

Here is a prime example of that, check out a friends restoration website:

http://www.70roadrunner.com/

Bob decided to re-restore a 1970 Road Runner that he bought.  The car looked very nice, but he wanted to make it even nicer.  The picture on the main page is the before picture, the after picture will have to wait for completion...

Bob found out the RR had 4 quarter panels, the originals plus "reproduction" quarter panel skins laid right over them.  Although this butchery is an extreme example, I believe a lot of "restored" cars will have similar revelations when it is time for a repaint.  I used to believe the "better than nothing" mantra... BUT, I realized years ago that it was wrong.  I collected as much usuable sheetmetal as I could to avoid the B-T-N decision.  I had all but given up on decent repro sheetmetal, then the unbelievable happened...

Here are some pictures from Bob's website, but there are many more there.  Its a great restoration reference & tips website!

XS

[xs29j8Bullitt]

With some "reproduction parts companies" out there..... I would not buy anything until I actually saw the part first. Sadly, this is also true for some parts that MCG has endorsed over the years. That's what Carlisle and the other big shows are for...seeing, touching, smelling, whatever, the parts before you buy them.  Without endorsing other companies by name (but I think we know who they are) - - if they made it - I will buy it - and it will be good. Period.    Some of the other so called "reproduction" stuff leaves a guy no choice but hold out for high-dollar NOS pieces.....and that's why NOS has always been in such demand. 

Well said!!!  I had dismissed claims of high quality repro parts until I saw some at Monster Mopar.  And yes, I will order high dollar parts from some vendors based on their reputation alone... I know they will make it right if there is a problem.  No problems so far!!! 

XS

[JimShine]

I have purchased items from Charger Specialties. It was a good experience.

I hate the fact that money is going overseas, however, if that is what it takes to get accurate looking and proper fitting parts in our hands, then I can't help but support it. The overall quality of reproduction parts for our Chargers has left lots to be desired and in many cases made the restoration more difficult, expensive, and frustrating. To be able to fix my car up with proper fitting and accurate looking parts is very exciting. Again, I wish I could keep the money in this country, but the stuff in my media room sent way more money overseas than the parts I would buy for my car.

[Khyron]

I'm going to keep quiet and watch this thread. BUT, I feel it was started as a troll and personally am turned off by the company that bashing other products.

I agree with Troy 100%. As I'm sure people will agree, I was one of the first to bitch about $2500 quarters from "another" company. But you know what, They seem to have much better business ethics then trying to stir up crap on a website. I'll also be holding any CS orders.

[SnoPro440]

If you have your product made correctly, it doesn't matter if the product is manufactured in the US or if it is manufactured overseas.  If your product is manufactured overseas, you are paying the manufacturing costs but selling the product in the US.  Where is the money being transacted?  In the US.  The money isn't moving overseas, it's staying in the US at US owned companies outsourcing manufacturing overseas.  Any company that has product manufactured outside of the United States keeps as much money as they legally can in the US.  Why do you think so much manufacturing has moved overseas?  Because the people who live there are now becoming so wealthy?  Have you been overseas?  Have you seen how the people there live?  Would you be willing to live the way they are living?  If you can buy quality product at an affordable price that was manufactured outside of the US, then buy it.  "Regardless" of where you are buying it from, the company who is selling it is most likely a US company that is taking advantage of lower manufacturing costs - the money isn't moving overseas, it's staying in the US.  If you know anyone in the US who is willing to work a 10 hour day making $1.50 per hour to make the shit that you want to buy, I would love to meet them because I guarantee you they do not exist.  But a "bean counter" at any company will tell you all day long that paying the costs to produce something overseas and selling at the same MSRP as something produced in the US will guarantee you a profit margin that you can't refuse and the money never leaves the country.

[hemihead]

And here is where the problem lies . A company has a product made overseas for dirt cheap . Then brings it back here and wants a 400 % or more mark up because the dollar is god . But because he had it made overseas the guy who wants that part isn't working so he can't afford said part .
The company then says their is no market and can't sell many so he stops making the part . So why doesn't the Company just cut some of its profit and make it here ? Greed is why . I know a business is to make money but some of this stuff is out of control .
  Some day these businesses in this country will learn that if not many people are working or not making much , their company will fold and they will be out of a job too .

[BEAPARTS]

Well...Being on both ends of the reproduction parts business I'm going to give you my thoughts on this subject and take the risk of a major tongue lashing.

I truly believe, over the years, many of the guys that have produced parts for our cars deserves to be applauded.  They were making needed parts for our cars at a time when there was nothing.  The manufacturing techniques and material used may not have been the same as the original part, however, that type of part was all the market would bare.  Everyone here knows the millions of hours of free labor we put into our cars, the labor of love cost nothing. Many parts were developed by people out of a need they had doing their personal cars than offered that product to the market, us, other mopar knuckle heads. ("knuckle head"? Yea, meant in a good way, we are all a gluten pain.)  When typically hand made with low material cost and a labor of love, the part was affordable.

However, like anything else in life we are experiencing a transition in the hobby.  The interest level of our cars has increased exponentially over the last 5 years, mopar values have gone up (for the most part) and the interest in our cars as well.  There are more and more mopars being  restored every day as well as cars that were done 15 years ago when taking one to the extreme we do today was not common place.  Your average "Joe" is putting his car on a cradle and flipping it in his garage, that was usually left to the professionals years ago.

The market is more demanding today than it ever was, numbers matching, paperwork, primered bottoms, overspray and everything else that went into the production of these cars back in the day (we all know the score).  It's only natural that the demands on reproduction parts follow suit with quality, originality and being so good it's indistinguishable as being a reproduction part, those are tall marching orders and expensive.

I am also one for not copying a part that is already available as long as the part is of the quality and reasonably priced that this new mopar hobby expects.  For example, if a part that is available, say the 71 Cuda front valance insert,  originally made from ABS plastic and is offered in fiberglass we might consider making that part which we did.  Pot metal convertible belt moldings, originally available in brass or soft white metal is another example.  One of the biggest reasons we are doing so many lenses is because a big pile on the market are a cast resin and not acrylic as original.  I remember about 10 years ago I purchased a set of the clear front marker lenses for one of my 71 cudas at the Mopar Nationals and stuck them in my trailer parked up on the hill, you know which one, the hill behind the swap meet area.  By the end of the day, with only the sun beating on the roof, my new lenses were melted flat and unusable. That's what happens to a resin lens.

As a manufacturer and supplier, it all comes down to the customer, nothing else matters.  Produce the best product available, have a genuine passion for what ever you're doing and service the customer and your company we be a success.

We all need to be more conscious about what we say and how we say it, sometimes our mouth overloads our a$$ whole and things come out we normally wouldn't say (I'm as guilty as the next).  Our tongue is one of the most lethal weapons god gave us and we all need to be more careful using it.

Michael C. Ross - Owner
B/E & A Restoration Parts, Inc.
www.beaparts.com
330-725-3990