GM vs Mopar Crate Engines

[Rolling_Thunder]

The purpose of this is to illustrate the difference between a Mopar and a GM crate engine - I have ordered a 500 wedge before and recently purchased a crate 502 for a project at the shop - I was amazed at the differenced between the "bang for the buck" factor

Mopar: Crate 500" Wedge
Horsepower: 505
Torque: 590
Block: Iron
Heads: Iron
Compression: 9:1
Induction: Single Plane intake
Price: $9,437.00
Warranty: None
NOTES: Complete long block with no accessories or carb. Stamped steel rocker arms and a cam that will not operate power brakes


GM: Crate 502" Big Block
Horsepower: 540
Torque: 569
Block: Iron
Heads: Aluminum
Compression: 9.6:1
Induction: Complete Edelbrock Pro Flo EFI system
Price: $9,915.00
Warranty: 3 year / 36,000 miles
NOTES: Complete Long block with Edelbrock EFI system including wiring harness, computer, fuel pump, fuel filter, and program module. Engine also came with high torque mini-starter and bolts, distributor, spark plug wires, spark plugs, harmonic balancer, flywheel, roller rocker arms


So my question is people -  why does Mopar have their head up their asses when concerning crate engines ?

[Charged]

Theyve had their head up their ass for a long time. Just look at what they done to the Avenger...and the Charger, since 1975. Im surprised to find Ford is dead in the ground in short time instead of Mopar. Well...who am I to challenge a marketing team for a multibillion dollar company?

[Ghoste]

Oh, I don't know, the guy they're trying to market to?

[Mike DC]

How about the fact that GM is still using the bb Chevy motor in assembly-line vehicles whereas Mopar's crate motors are custom-tooled just for the hot rod market?  And the fact that the Mopar hot-rod market is a fraction of the size of the Chevy market? 

Same reasons that we can get more reproduction B/E-body parts than C-body stuff.

   

[RallyeMike]

Maybe it's we who have our heads up our asses and we should all buy Chevy's ?.

[pettyfan43]

Maybe it's we who have our heads up our asses and we should all buy Chevy's ?.

NAH that would be silly, Chevys are like belly buttons, everybody has one!

[mopar-or-no-car]

NAH that would be silly, Chevys are like belly buttons, everybody has one!

AMEN!! and a MOPAR stands out in the crowd!!   
PLUS you can hear one a commin!!   

[Rolling_Thunder]

My point was merely to show the huge difference in pricing...     Even look at the LS1 and 5.7 Hemi prices...         plus I hate to say it but the LS1 is a better motor...     more power with fewer mods in most cases

[AKcharger]

I'm actually suprised that we haven't seen more Chevy engines in MOPAR bodies...it's coming

[70charginglizard]

No one ever said that retoring a mopar was cheap or easy.

If it was. Everyone would be doing it and everyone would have one.... kinda like a chevy.

I agree it sucks but what else can you do other than rebuilding an original. Which aint cheap or easy either. 

[derailed]

To bad Pontiacs are in the same boat as Mopars, maybe even a little more pricey. Im so friggin tempted to drop a Dart or Merlin motor in my 67 Lemans it aint funny. Indian adventures makes a killer aftermarket Pontiac block you can achieve well over 500 cubes with and ive heard great things about the Kauffman and eddy heads. When it comes down to it you cant beat the torque but the price  .

[hemihead]

I say if you want something cheap and slow buy a Chevy and be like everyone else.

[Arthu®]

Well have you thought about that it might be a demand and supply thing? Any way you look at it there are a way more classic chevy's (and even modern ones) out there. That basically means that there is a larger market for these crate engines (neglecting variables such as that the mopar crowd might be more into crate engines than the chevy crowd but let's consider all those factors equal) so if you have a larger market for them and the demand in both the mopar and the chevy market are the same you should be able to produce and sell (important factor) more of them. And we all know that it is cheaper to produce a 1000 pieces of something than 1 due to fixed costs like tooling, etc. I have no proof whatsoever that chevy does sell more crate engines than mopar, but to me this sounds like it might be a reason.

Arthur

[SeattleCharger]

 

[Jon Smith]

I'm pretty certain GM sells way more crate motors
about half of all big money street rods in the UK seem to get a GM crate motor these days, I'm not really all that into brand loyalty (despite having 3 mopars and no chevys or fords) but I'm getting bored of seeing them.
plus all the muscle cars that get them...
I dont think I've even seen one mopar crate motor over here...

the GM ones do look better value, and mopar ones had a bad rep for quality a couple of years back, gotta be hard to turn that round....

[moparstuart]

Maybe it's we who have our heads up our asses and we should all buy Chevy's ?.

sure you all go buy chevy's and leave the mopars to me please  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charger-Bodie]

I'm actually suprised that we haven't seen more Chevy engines in MOPAR bodies...it's coming

IM not all that biased about vehicles OTHER than muscle mopars ! But That makes me want to 

[Lowprofile]

I say if you want something cheap and slow buy a Chevy and be like everyone else.

Although I understand your brand loyalty, that's kinda arrogant to say, isn't it?

[Ponch ®]

To bad Pontiacs are in the same boat as Mopars, maybe even a little more pricey.

I don't know dude. If you put a Chevy/GM crate motor on a Pontiac, you're at still keeping it "within the family". To us it's no big deal to take a motor out of a Plymouth and drop it into a Dodge, or vice versa.

[mikesbbody]

 

[hemihead]

I say if you want something cheap and slow buy a Chevy and be like everyone else.

Although I understand your brand loyalty, that's kinda arrogant to say, isn't it?

Oh well. I guess truth hurts.
Maybe GM sells more crate engines because they don't last as long as a Mopar Engine .
And a Plymouth and a Dodge engine are the same. They are Corporate engines. It has been that way since the early 60's .

[Lowprofile]

No truth there, Just your beliefs. 

[hemihead]

No truth there, Just your beliefs. 

Then why own a Mopar if GM is sooo much better. Should just sell it and buy a Chevy. 

[derailed]

To bad Pontiacs are in the same boat as Mopars, maybe even a little more pricey.

I don't know dude. If you put a Chevy/GM crate motor on a Pontiac, you're at still keeping it "within the family". To us it's no big deal to take a motor out of a Plymouth and drop it into a Dodge, or vice versa.

Sounds logical but try telling that to a die hard or any Pontiac guy. Pontiac and Cheby are completely different motors. Ive seen some kickass Pontiacs run at the track and its always cool to see one dust off Joe camaro with his big block chevy.

[SeattleCharger]

To bad Pontiacs are in the same boat as Mopars, maybe even a little more pricey.

I don't know dude. If you put a Chevy/GM crate motor on a Pontiac, you're at still keeping it "within the family". To us it's no big deal to take a motor out of a Plymouth and drop it into a Dodge, or vice versa.

Sounds logical but try telling that to a die hard or any Pontiac guy. Pontiac and Cheby are completely different motors. Ive seen some kickass Pontiacs run at the track and its always cool to see one dust off Joe camaro with his big block chevy.

This is a guy I know in w seattle got this early 60's Tempest, 2600 pounds, put a 455 big block built in it, ran like a 10.07 first time out, no nos, wasn't a crate, built himself basically. Before that he kept putting 455's in a big boat car with nitros to get in tens, but kept blowing up the engines, heh, 
   

[Lowprofile]

No truth there, Just your beliefs. 

Then why own a Mopar if GM is sooo much better. Should just sell it and buy a Chevy. 

I never said they were better. You just dislike GM. On any given day, You could match up any Mopar from the musclecar era to any GM [or Ford] product from the same era on a drag strip and you would win as many as you lost. They are all very different, yet very much the same in the way they go about filling their purpose in life. Brute Power, Speed, Classic styling.......Mopar , although having many beautiful designs, does not own all of them......

The crate motors GM sells are great deals . As originally stated, you get a lot of bang for your car restoration/upgrade/replacement dollar.  It wasn't all that long ago that we in the Mopar community only dreamed of having the opportunity to buy a crate motor, let alone a Hemi. And now we can, and that's a great thing.

All I'm saying is give respect and credit where it is due.....

[derailed]

To bad Pontiacs are in the same boat as Mopars, maybe even a little more pricey.

I don't know dude. If you put a Chevy/GM crate motor on a Pontiac, you're at still keeping it "within the family". To us it's no big deal to take a motor out of a Plymouth and drop it into a Dodge, or vice versa.

Sounds logical but try telling that to a die hard or any Pontiac guy. Pontiac and Cheby are completely different motors. Ive seen some kickass Pontiacs run at the track and its always cool to see one dust off Joe camaro with his big block chevy.

This is a guy I know in w seattle got this early 60's Tempest, 2600 pounds, put a 455 big block built in it, ran like a 10.07 first time out, no nos, wasn't a crate, built himself basically. Before that he kept putting 455's in a big boat car with nitros to get in tens, but kept blowing up the engines, heh, 
   

  Early 60s Lemans make great drag cars. Pontiac blocks are easily good to 500 horespower. Like any other factory block they have there week points like needing lifter bore braces. I would love to find a 64 someday and build a nice drag car. I think Lowpro put it well, out of the big 3 I dont think theres one manufacturer out there that runs any faster or last any longer than the other. I have a friend running a 39 Ford pickup with a 383 chevy that he drives to the track and runs 11.50s all day long everytime he goes and then drives home. Its all personal opinion.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Maybe GM sells more crate engines because they don't last as long as a Mopar Engine .

Then why would the GM crate have a nice warranty where as the Mopar crate leaves you holding your dick if it breaks ?   I'm just playing devil's advocate on this one...   I mean everything for a mopar is more expensive, we know this...    it is a supply and demand kinda thing - but still - the 502 does appear to be a better product doesn't it ?   I own mopars - but sometimes you just cant beat another brand's finer points...    GM's are available, cost effective, and overall a great engine line up...     Mopars have an edge on styling and not as common as the GMs but...    in the end...    GMs have some fine points just like Mopars do...     i was just stirring the pot and pointing out how much more cost effective GMs are and say "why cant Mopar make a better crate for the money" ?

[tan top]

true i have often  thought  that , seems a shame that all the stuff looks good in a parts catalogue but compared to ...  although i hate to say it gm , quality & power is down ,  :Ritz:  plus cost more dough to Begin with .....   ..........  no wonder there is so many strong chebbies out there ,  come on MOPAR get your act togeather .   more  attention to quality & detail  MP stuff or now DC , would be a awesome source of hardwere .......................   

[hemihead]

Maybe GM needs a better warranty , ever think of that ? A warranty doesn't make it a better product . Sorry but I will never understand why someone buys a Mopar then bitches about everything Mopar , then turns around and brags about how great their Mopar is .
You say the Mopar engine is down on power . Who's rating are you going by ? The advertised ratings or have you personally dynoed one ?
  Ever tear apart a 350 Chevy with 75,000 miles on it ? Talk about a sludge pump . And if you are worried about breaking a Mopar , you must be a Chevy guy because they are used to breaking things when they run them hard .

[tan top]

Hmmmm ......well  (Hemihead) only going by advertised power ratings , i know that they can be far from accurate or some creative marketing , but just looking at the comparisons  manufacture to manufacture is all , & the price .........    not had personal experience with any crate motors , or even chebbies come to that     but to me take the mopar  RB 500 ci wedge it says it is rated at 505 hp .... i know it is built for reliability but seems a bit low for a 500ci ,   just my  .........................

[hemihead]

Maybe the GM boat anchor is wayyyy overrated ?

[Troy]

The Chevy is still more complete and even includes a full fuel injection system. Is the Mopar engine really worth that much more? Any real racer would build his own engines so these crates are going into street driven cars that will likely never see 10,000 miles. I personally don't know anyone who has had a problem with the GM crates and haven't really heard of many problems with the Mopar RB crates. I wouldn't buy either since I can't see spending $10k on an engine for occasional street usage. I can tell you that the GM guys can get their cars done a lot cheaper (and faster) which might explain why there are more on the road instead of in a million pieces in the garage. Really, who wants to spend a gazillion dollars on a car that may have more power or may go a bit faster but takes three times as long to finish? I like the Mopars that I have because of their looks and "coolness" factor and if they go fast it's just a bonus. I don't race any of them though. A stock engine is more than enough for me but, if I were missing the drive train, I'd consider a crate just for the convenience. Unfortunately, on the Mopar side it makes more sense to have a reputable shop build one. Based on their history with the Hemis who'd want to buy an engine that you have to immediately tear down and rebuild (with no warranty)?

Troy

[Rolling_Thunder]

Sorry but I will never understand why someone buys a Mopar then bitches about everything Mopar , then turns around and brags about how great their Mopar is . You say the Mopar engine is down on power . Who's rating are you going by ? The advertised ratings or have you personally dynoed one ?  Ever tear apart a 350 Chevy with 75,000 miles on it ? Talk about a sludge pump . And if you are worried about breaking a Mopar , you must be a Chevy guy because they are used to breaking things when they run them hard .

I am not bitching about everything mopar - i am simply showing the difference in cost of two crate engines. And my mopar is not great - neither of them. 

As for the ratings...   I am using THEIR ratings...   why would they advertise their crates at a lower HP level than they are making ?  There is no logical reason.

I have torn apart many 350s in my day and (just like any mopar small block) there are sludge engines and ones that are clean...    it depends on they way theyr are maintined with things like oil changes.

I don't worry about breaking things - I've broken plenty of things....    Ever blow a 440+6 Superbird engine ? Ever pull donuts in a numbers matching superbird?  Ever run a 440 to 8500 rpms? Ever put 500 tq through an aluminum case 833 ?     If things break I fix them. Thats my job...   but Don't think for a second Mopars are impervious to breakage...   My boss's 440 is a testament to that...   things break...    no matter what brand.

By the way - what GM do you drive?

[hemihead]

 I don't own a GM and as you noticed , I' m not the one waving the Bowtie banner here . I just think that if a person doesn't like a product they should stop complaining about it and just go where they think they can get the best deal . Don't like Mopar quality, warranties , or product ? Then go buy a GM . I build my own engines myself. I have never even considered buying a Crate engine . I've abused plenty of Mopars in the last 30 years . So you beat on a Superbird , congrats ! And I bet that 440 + 6 took more abuse than a GM would . I just don't think you should bash Mopar when you own one and consider yourself a " Mopar Guy "

[SeattleCharger]

doesn't seem the debate is about if mopars are good or not, just about the price on crate engines and how much you get for the money with each deal in terms of the list of parts and warranty,  the mopar one costs a lot more, that is the point,

[Rolling_Thunder]

I don't own a GM and as you noticed , I' m not the one waving the Bowtie banner here . I just think that if a person doesn't like a product they should stop complaining about it and just go where they think they can get the best deal . Don't like Mopar quality, warranties , or product ? Then go buy a GM . I build my own engines myself. I have never even considered buying a Crate engine . I've abused plenty of Mopars in the last 30 years . So you beat on a Superbird , congrats ! And I bet that 440 + 6 took more abuse than a GM would . I just don't think you should bash Mopar when you own one and consider yourself a " Mopar Guy "

I'm not "bashing" anything - merely pointing out that GM crates are great deals and was wondering why mopar can't offer a comparable crate for the price....     

I build my own engines as well - including customer engines unless they want something different or a specific crate engine.

and you should really take some of your own advice as it seems you do not own a GM so why are you so opposed to them ?  I mean you seem to be 100% against anything GM and take personal offense to mere innocent facts - I do consider myself a "Mopar Guy" - thats why I own two - but I have also owned a 72 nova and a 66 chevelle...     I don't see why one should have such a brand loyalty -  I have owned and/or worked on GM, Ford, and Mopars -  They all have their good points and their downfalls - thats the truth...   

I am not waving the bowtie banner - merely asking again why Mopar can not be competative in the crate engine market...   I have gotten several good reasons - thats all...     let us not let this digress into a "my make of car is better because....." thread because that can be debated to the end of time. 

[Duey]

...sheer volume of sales will drive the price point for comparable quality levels.  Chebbie has always been much cheaper, I suppose....must be their crappy rod ratio! 

[hemihead]

Look at it this way . Mopars are worth more than a Chevy , right ? Just because of lower production numbers . Well , Mopar parts are more expensive because they sell less . And yes I hate anything GM . I'm a throwback to a time when brand loyalty meant alot . Sorry I can't be a wishy - washy ,  I'll drive anything guy . Sometimes in life you have to stand for and with something . And sometimes you stand alone and not just because it's the popular thing .

[bull]

Don't like Mopar quality, warranties , or product ? Then go buy a GM.

I'm not really looking to enter the fray here but I do have something to say about this statement. I just think it's a shame that we have to put up with this in our hobby. Granted, we don't enjoy the luxury of mass-production but I get tired of being told "sorry, you own a Mopar so it's going to cost you." I know all about the supply/demand arguments and how the people producing this stuff often have to hedge their bets in order to make money. Still I can't help but think if there was more availability at decent prices there would be more purchases and more purchases would increase production and product options in many areas. Instead we get overpriced products and then those who produce it wonder why the stuff isn't selling. Well, it's because I can buy a 440 for $700 and take it to a shop to have it rebuilt and oversee the process for less money and get more hp than what Mopar Performance offers. It's definitely not rocket science.

[Troy]

Look at it this way . Mopars are worth more than a Chevy , right ? Just because of lower production numbers . Well , Mopar parts are more expensive because they sell less . And yes I hate anything GM . I'm a throwback to a time when brand loyalty meant alot . Sorry I can't be a wishy - washy ,  I'll drive anything guy . Sometimes in life you have to stand for and with something . And sometimes you stand alone and not just because it's the popular thing .

Not all Mopars are worth more than all Chevys (and vice versa). We've discussed on several occasions how low production/rarity doesn't always equate to more money. If you're talking Hemi cars you might have an argument but most of us aren't lucky enough to own one (or sell one). Lots of guys are working on base model or 383 cars and the finished values are comparable to a Mustang (or the actual Ford competition - Torino), GTO, or Chevelle. If the Mopar ends up worth a few thousand more it still doesn't make up for the several thousand more that it costs to build. This hobby is expensive no matter what you're building though. If it's a rusty pile it's going to cost a LOT - no matter what badge it's wearing.

Just because you hate GM doesn't make it a bad deal - or a good deal in the case of the Mopar. I think brand loyalty is part of what got the US automobile industry into the current mess they are in. It's nice when you don't actually have to make a quality product in order to sell it. It also doesn't mean that a person can't raise their expectations. What's wrong with saying "hey, I've supported your company since I was a teenager and I expect more"? The old saying "necessity is the mother of invention" applies since Chrysler wouldn't be compelled to do better unless the competition forced them to. I am thankful that Chrysler has finally committed some resources to the restoration parts market - although their licensing often feels more like a money grabbing scheme. Who cares? I can at least get parts and keep my car on the road without sifting through piles of rusty junk while my car is stuck in the garage.

Troy

[Tarzan]

So you would advice me not to buy a 500 WEDGE MOPAR ENGINE?

I decided to buy one but if its not a good deal, I will probably wont get one.

It wont work if I have power brakes?

What should I then get for my 69 charger?

[RD]

So you would advice me not to buy a 500 WEDGE MOPAR ENGINE?

I decided to buy one but if its not a good deal, I will probably wont get one.

It wont work if I have power brakes?

What should I then get for my 69 charger?

he is not saying the engine is bad, its the PACKAGE in comparison to the Chevy Crate Engine that he is referring to.

The purchase of a crate engine for you is based upon your resources and abilities.  If you do not want to worry about tearing down a block, machining, and reassembling it, then a crate engine may be the best answer for you (and you have the $$$ to do it)... BUT if you have some mechanical ability and enjoy the dissassembly and reassembly of an engine, then maybe finding a block and getting everything redone may be in your best interest (it might even be cheaper too!).

[Tarzan]

I just heard that its a very long waitinglist to get a mopar engine.

What else could I do? 500 wedge is the engine that I want or is it cheaper to get one built??

[472 R/T SE]

It wont work if I have power brakes?

Vacuum pump conveniently placed somewhere will cure your power brake issues.

[Bobs69]

Maybe it's we who have our heads up our asses and we should all buy Chevy's ?.

Exactly what I've been asking myself for quite awhile now!  GM (Generic Motors) guys have it a lot easier (cheaper) to build and enjoy their cars.  If we thought with our heads and not our hearts we'd drive chevs.  I dive one everyday.............

Maybe we are sentimental suckers with a lot of passion!

[Bobs69]

I'm actually suprised that we haven't seen more Chevy engines in MOPAR bodies...it's coming

Fu** Off!  You can't do that!  You can't!.  It's just not right.  That's like converting my charger to a front wheel drive from an intrepid!
(Just joking I don't know you to tell you off!)

But if Chrysler and GM merge...............it'll all be the same!

[WingCharger]

Think of the AMC guys.

You guys are complaining about not having good crate engines, and AMC guys barely have intakes or headers for their engines.
I do agree ma mopar is pretty stupid when it comes to crates. BUT, Chevy crates are made from original tooling, and mopar engine tooling (ie. Hemi) is long gone.

Even worse, a lot of AMC cars are ending up Chevy powered, because of the lack of repo engine and performance parts.