The future is now, get ready for Hydrogen fuel cell cars.

[1969chargerrtse]

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&brand=&vid=ec5a4877-a48f-4319-8a80-317a6f7ec4cf   

[rav440]

good , does this mean that AL GORE and his tree hugging minions will shut the hell up for awhile ?

[BigBlackDodge]

Not until there are lots of refueling stations spread out will these things will it take off IMHO.




BBD

[bull]

good , does this mean that AL GORE and his tree hugging minions will shut the hell up for awhile ?

Right. I thought their motto was "there's always something to bitch about."

[Troy]

Not for me - 3 year lease at $600 per month. It gets 270 miles per fill up with most all of the stations in southern California - it won't even make it to Vegas according to the Honda rep. He said that one strategically placed station would solve that problem. He didn't mention how badly that station would be able to gouge the consumer nor the typical cost of hydrogen. Roughly 68 mpg so is it really that much better than a proven hybrid when you factor in the cost? Yes, I know it's supposed to be zero emissions. I realize these will get cheaper over time (just like hybrids) so, thankfully, Californians get to be the guinea pigs and the technology will be several generations old by the time I can get one. It'll be several years before Ohio sees a network of stations any way.

Troy

[rav440]

thats what i was wanting to know . how much is hydrogen ? as for now these cars may be eco friendly but not cost effective by the time you weight out the cost of the car and the miliage it getts ill bet it still factors out to driving a truck .

[BigBlackDodge]

When hydrogen is produced isn't there polution created in the process?


BBD

[Troy]

When hydrogen is produced isn't there polution created in the process?


BBD

Shhhhhh! Don't use logic near the greenies - they get upset.

Troy

[The70RT]

Before it really takes off you will have to go out of your way to refill since the stations will be randomly scattered.

[bull]

Popular Mechanics ran an article not too long ago on fuel efficient diesel engines that can be made to emit all but zero emissions. What I still can't figure out is why diesel costs $.20 more per gallon than gasoline when it's cheaper to refine. Fuzzy math I guess.

I still think straight electric is the way to go, especially now that lithium batteries are starting to be used. Electricity is the only other resource that has an infrastructure already in place all over the nation; all you'd have to do is warehouse some universal-fit battery packs and I think that would be a lot simpler than most of the other alternatives. No matter what fuel you use to propel cars though there's always going to be an environmental impact. Sorry greenies.

[pettyfan43]

Popular Mechanics ran an article not too long ago on fuel efficient diesel engines that can be made to emit all but zero emissions. What I still can't figure out is why diesel costs $.20 more per gallon than gasoline when it's cheaper to refine. Fuzzy math I guess.

I still think straight electric is the way to go, especially now that lithium batteries are starting to be used. Electricity is the only other resource that has an infrastructure already in place all over the nation; all you'd have to do is warehouse some universal-fit battery packs and I think that would be a lot simpler than most of the other alternatives. No matter what fuel you use to propel cars though there's always going to be an environmental impact. Sorry greenies.

Cause MORE PEOPLE are opting for diesels and more people are jumping on the bandwagon, You can't use just anything, you have to use ON ROAD Diesel and they get real pissy if you use off road! I actually came up on a DOT roadblock one day not far from home, and the Officer just asked me if I was gas or diesel in my truck. Looking for off road diesel users in the street.

[sick dawg]

When these things catch on I hope it means the price of Shell 100 is comming down!

[1FastCharger]

When hydrogen is produced isn't there polution created in the process?


BBD

Shhhhhh! Don't use logic near the greenies - they get upset.

Troy

I saw a show on the Discovery channel a while back about the future of hydrogen power. Greenland will be a major producer of hydrogen. They are able to use natural steam geisers to generate electricity. They can then use the electricity to separate water into oxygen and hydrogen through electrolosis with no emissions. In the same show there was a guy that invented something that looked like a hockey puck to store hydrogen. It soaked it up like a sponge and would not release it until an electrical current was run throuh it. It was an amazingly safe way to store and transport hydrogen. Lastly Honda has a machine that goes on your garage wall and it refilles your tank overnight. All it needs is a water supply and electricity.

[Ghoste]

I wonder how long it will be until Sunoco buys Greenland?

[1969chargerrtse]

When hydrogen is produced isn't there polution created in the process?


BBD

Shhhhhh! Don't use logic near the greenies - they get upset.

Troy

I saw a show on the Discovery channel a while back about the future of hydrogen power. Greenland will be a major producer of hydrogen. They are able to use natural steam geisers to generate electricity. They can then use the electricity to separate water into oxygen and hydrogen through electrolysis with no emissions. In the same show there was a guy that invented something that looked like a hockey puck to store hydrogen. It soaked it up like a sponge and would not release it until an electrical current was run through it. It was an amazingly safe way to store and transport hydrogen. Lastly Honda has a machine that goes on your garage wall and it refills your tank overnight. All it needs is a water supply and electricity.

Saw the same show a while back.  Neat stuff coming out soon from Gm'S Volt to "platform electric cars"  were the main platform is the same and they drop different bodies on top.  Gonna be a fascinating future, coming real soon.  Volt is due in less than 2 years I believe, plug in electric, with gas generator backup, how cool.

[dkn1997]

When hydrogen is produced isn't there polution created in the process?


BBD

That's the same question on my mind too.  Is it even possible to produce hydrogen without burning fossil fuels?  how much of an impact will hydrogen cars really have? 

you want zero emissions?  I say power 'em all with a nuclear slug.    

and you won't even have to put headlights on 'em either the whole damn thing will glow in the dark.   

[1969chargerrtse]

When hydrogen is produced isn't there pollution created in the process?


BBD

That's the same question on my mind too.  Is it even possible to produce hydrogen without burning fossil fuels?  how much of an impact will hydrogen cars really have? 

you want zero emissions?  I say power 'em all with a nuclear slug.    

and you won't even have to put headlights on 'em either the whole damn thing will glow in the dark.   

Probably much less, but it's not about that.  It's about not relying on oil form people that want us dead.

[Ghoste]

With nothing else to export and lots of starving and unemployed faithful, they may want to kill us even more. 

[1969chargerrtse]

With nothing else to export and lots of starving and unemployed faithful, they may want to kill us even more. 

But they'll have a lot less money to do so, and that's a good thing.

[RD]

...I actually came up on a DOT roadblock one day not far from home, and the Officer just asked me if I was gas or diesel in my truck. Looking for off road diesel users in the street.

this pisses me off, really.  they should put more time and effort into catching REAL criminals rather than people who are spending their own money for fuel.. the travesty of it all!!

maybe they should use all that wasted tax payers dollars to catch murderers or rapists... geez... fricken idiotic.. police stops to dip your tank for red diesel.


oh... and hydrogen is cool.. just not feasible at this time.. but it will be, one of these days

[The70RT]

...I actually came up on a DOT roadblock one day not far from home, and the Officer just asked me if I was gas or diesel in my truck. Looking for off road diesel users in the street.

this pisses me off, really.  they should put more time and effort into catching REAL criminals rather than people who are spending their own money for fuel.. the travesty of it all!!

maybe they should use all that wasted tax payers dollars to catch murderers or rapists... geez... fricken idiotic.. police stops to dip your tank for red diesel.


oh... and hydrogen is cool.. just not feasible at this time.. but it will be, one of these days

Pretty crazy. They act like they have nothing better to do. It's gonna be crazy in our town if they let the Police take over the city code and compliance department.

[kylem4711]

good , does this mean that AL GORE and his tree hugging minions will shut the hell up for awhile ?

Right. I thought their motto was "there's always something to bitch about."

?   
why is trying to help the world bad?
those two statements just make you sound childish

[69charger2002]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

[Forza]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

Agreed

[kylem4711]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

[bull]

With nothing else to export and lots of starving and unemployed faithful, they may want to kill us even more. 

Maybe, but they won't have any of our money to do it with. I'm sure China will keep them in business. Maybe the Chinese will be over there trying to straighten them out someday instead of us.

[bull]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

[Ghoste]

Not to mention that choosing to live in the public eye and wanting to bend the world to his vision pretty much means he has to be open to praise AND criticism.  We won't mention the whole environmental hypocrite thing though since we aren't being political.

[kylem4711]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

[kylem4711]

Not to mention that choosing to live in the public eye and wanting to bend the world tohis vision pretty much means he has to be open to praise AND criticism.  We won't mention the whole environmental hypocrite thing though since we aren't being political.

he does seem to be a hypocrite from some stuff that ive heard

[bull]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

So you're saying you disagree with him or what? I mean if he's right and you believe him you should do the right thing and get rid of your cars. What are you waiting for?

[1969chargerrtse]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

I was listening to people argue about gloal warming on the radio the other day, and the speaker said , How could we be the reason for Global warming if they're finding out that all the planets in the solar system are warming slightly not just Earth?  I didn't know that, and the other person never answered it.

[The70RT]

I guess we will all find out in a few hudered or a thousand years from now.

[BigBlackDodge]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

I was listening to people argue about gloal warming on the radio the other day, and the speaker said , How could we be the reason for Global warming if they're finding out that all the planets in the solar system are warming slightly not just Earth?  I didn't know that, and the other person never answered it.

Ohhh no! Galactic warming!

Aren't all spaceships hydrogen powered by now?

BBD

[kylem4711]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

So you're saying you disagree with him or what? I mean if he's right and you believe him you should do the right thing and get rid of your cars. What are you waiting for?

i agree with him, and i do more then enough of other things.  so i figure i can spoil myself with the car

[Paul G]

We have only been keeping weather records for a few hundred years. The Earth is millions of years old, with fossilized proof that the Earth's climate is in constant change. Fossilized fish in the desert, forest's at the bottom of lakes, etc. Watch the discovery channel, it's all there. 

How can anyone come to a scientific conclusion that we have damaged the Earth with so little information over such a short time period? I don't believe we have had that great of an impact on the Earth. I do believe we need to stop polluting the planet we call home though. So if All Gore has made an improvement in the air we breath and the water we drink because of his scare tactic, it's a good thing.

I still think he is a winer!       

[RD]

We have only been keeping weather records for a few hundred years. The Earth is millions of years old, with fossilized proof that the Earth's climate is in constant change. Fossilized fish in the desert, forest's at the bottom of lakes, etc. Watch the discovery channel, it's all there. 

How can anyone come to a scientific conclusion that we have damaged the Earth with so little information over such a short time period? I don't believe we have had that great of an impact on the Earth. I do believe we need to stop polluting the planet we call home though. So if All Gore has made an improvement in the air we breath and the water we drink because of his scare tactic, it's a good thing.

I still think he is a winer!       

hmmmm true.. true.. true... and your last point... TRUE!!! 

[Mike DC]

 
IMHO Al Gore has never really stopped running for president since he lost 8 years ago.  With this global warming push from him, I think we're really just looking at an extremely shrewd & farsighted political campaign. 

He might actually feel strongly about what he's saying.  You never know.   But either way, I'll bet he never does anything for the sake of the environment that might threaten his long-term political career. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Global warming is real but we don't know why it's happening. 

I think the rising oceans will probably do a lot more concrete damage to the world within our lifetimes than the gradual temperature increase.  Most of the humans on earth live within a few miles of the coasts.  Push that water level up several feet, and watch the riots start. 

[bull]

So you're saying you disagree with him or what? I mean if he's right and you believe him you should do the right thing and get rid of your cars. What are you waiting for?

i agree with him, and i do more then enough of other things.  so i figure i can spoil myself with the car

Sorry, that's not going to cut it with his agenda. Cars are Satan to him. You'll have to spoil (or soil) yourself with an electric bicycle to make the green freaks happy. There is no compromise.

[Lowprofile]

I don't know, the Polar Bears look pretty good to me...........That seal is not doing well though

[Mike DC]

 
Fossil-fuel cars are Satan to a lot of the country, even among those who use them. 


Much of the public would love to assuage their Catholic-style "guilty-by-existence" feelings about cars.  Resource consumption, global warming, oil wars, . . . switching away from gasoline-burning vehicles would make them feel better about all kinds of things.  Give the general public another option (that isn't horrifically  impractical & expensive), and sales of gaoline-burning autos would drop through the floor.   


(And once they've personally switched the car in their driveway, most of the public will probably feel free to attack anyone still driving an "oil-burner."  They'll conveniently ignore the fact that most of their life & resources would still basically be supported by oil in all kinds of other ways.)

 

[hemihead]

Don't forget that these same Tree Hugging people are the ones who drive the big SUV's , love their PC's and Laptops , and use all the other products that waste energy, create more pollution to power , or end up in land fills .
How can anyone honestly say that they are a Greenie then own a Musclecar ? I guess you ease your conscience by saying you do other things so you can spoil yourself.

[Mike DC]

 
Being "green" is a huge marketing tool whenever they can make it one these days. 

A lot of people wanna be percieved as earth-friendly as much as they wanna look beautiful & wealthy.  So a lot of the same marketing principles end up applying now.  It's not as relevant whether a product actually IS greener, just that it projects that idea to the buyer and others around them. 

   

[bull]

 
Fossil-fuel cars are Satan to a lot of the country, even among those who use them. 


Much of the public would love to assuage their Catholic-style "guilty-by-existence" feelings about cars.  Resource consumption, global warming, oil wars, . . . switching away from gasoline-burning vehicles would make them feel better about all kinds of things.  Give the general public another option (that isn't horrifically  impractical & expensive), and sales of gaoline-burning autos would drop through the floor.   


(And once they've personally switched the car in their driveway, most of the public will probably feel free to attack anyone still driving an "oil-burner."  They'll conveniently ignore the fact that most of their life & resources would still basically be supported by oil in all kinds of other ways.)

 

Assuage is the $5 word of the day.

Anyway, I think like you. It's all about feelings. People want to feel like they're doing the right thing whether it can be proven right or not. How much more fossil fuel do we use now days with these 4 mpg trucks driving around picking up recycling? We could probably cut fuel usage in this country by 1/10th if we quit making two trips to each suburbian home once a week to pick up garbage and recycling. Of course then people would start throwing all their oil-based plastics in the garbage. Still, I bet we waste more fuel picking up recycling than we'd waste by throwing that stuff away. I'd like to see a study on that.

The best reason I can see for using alternative fuels (fuel we can produce here at home) is to financially choke the life out of those oil barons in the Middle East.

[Ghoste]

Too late Bull, they secretly purchased China and it's chief retail outlet Wal-Mart years ago.  (no I can't prove it but the men in the black helicopters told me)

[Paul G]

Most people don't realize that we do not have a clean energy source available for use today. Even solar power requires batteries to store the energy. Batteries require manufacturing which in itself polutes. Even hydrogen fueled vehicles are not clean. It takes energy, electricity, to make the hydrogen. The electricity needed to recharge an electric car comes from oil, coal, or nuclear power. Very little of the electricity we use today comes from Hydro generation.

So what are we supposed to do?     

[bull]

Most people don't realize that we do not have a clean energy source available for use today. Even solar power requires batteries to store the energy. Batteries require manufacturing which in itself polutes. Even hydrogen fueled vehicles are not clean. It takes energy, electricity, to make the hydrogen. The electricity needed to recharge an electric car comes from oil, coal, or nuclear power. Very little of the electricity we use today comes from Hydro generation.

So what are we supposed to do?     

Nothing. That's the point. There's nothing we can do that does not have a supposed "negative" impact on the environment. Greenies spend so much time telling us to protect the environment they seem to forget we are part of it. I don't mind doing my part to promote conservation efforts but I'm not convinced anyone really knows the best way to go about doing that.

[Mike DC]

I think it's worse than just getting us out from under the oil barons. 

There has recently been a very convincing argument put forth that Saudi Arabia's long-term oil reserves are in serious trouble.  The assertion is that the country is turning out to have a hell of a lot less oil left under it than what has always been believed.  I've read the whole thing and it makes a lot of sense to me.  If that really is the case, then the world oil situation is much closer to the breaking point than we generally think.  The pipeline isn't gonna turn off tomorrow but it may well be sputtering in one or two decades instead of five or six.



Humans just generally aren't making their power in very clean & renewable ways.  Even if we found centuries' more coal & oil somewhere, the climate couldn't withstand the kind of CO2 infusion that it would create to use the stuff.  Al Gore may be a scaremonger but the basic problems with fossil fuel & climate remain.  I don't know what major-league carbon emissions are doing to the earth right now but sooner or later it's gonna do SOMETHING we won't like.  And by the time we see the proof of the problem, it's already gonna be way too late to avert a lot of the consequences.   


We need HUGE amounts of clean electrical energy.  Bigger than anything even on the map right now. 
If we could find a way to get it, then we really could switch the majority of the transportation system over to hydrogen and be set.   Hydrogen is pretty clean once the hydro is created by using a whole lot of electric (read: fossil fuels) power. 

 

[Lowprofile]

Nuclear Energy. We need more plants...especially out west.

[Mike DC]

 
Yeah, I agree that we probably will build more nuclear plants.  We've got the raw uranium on US soil and we've got the facilities to enrich it.  And the big nuclear disaster scares of the past probably won't be such a factor in people's perceptions anymore since we've gone so long without an incident.  Homer Simpson is a scary thought in everyone's mind, but the fact is that he's been successful at keeping Springfield meltdown-free since the 1970s. 


It's not a perfect solution.  But IMO our radioactive nuclear waste may not end up doing any greater damage to the world than our "safe" ways of making power are doing. 

[kylem4711]

Don't forget that these same Tree Hugging people are the ones who drive the big SUV's , love their PC's and Laptops , and use all the other products that waste energy, create more pollution to power , or end up in land fills .
How can anyone honestly say that they are a Greenie then own a Musclecar ? I guess you ease your conscience by saying you do other things so you can spoil yourself.

tree hugging?   

i never said i was a greenie either.  I just said that i do a lot of other things, so i own a muscle car.  is it right?  nope, but thats how it is.


u need to get that hate out of your heart. 

[rav440]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

you should have stopped at " i dont think " if you belive he "uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists " what he uses is very scued scare tactic twisted points of scince or scince fiction . he twists facts more than michael moore could ever dream of . 
. yes the planet if warming as it happens in a cycle of every 175 K or so years we just came out of a mini ice age in the early 1900s that lasted over 1000 years and as we speek the sun is moving closer to the earth , on dec 21 2012 the sun will be the closest it has ever been to the earth ever . do you think perhaps that may be a reason for the accellerated warming 
man has nothing to do with warming and theres nothing we can do to change it . think why was the middle east and northern affrica once a tropical place ? why is greenland made of ice while iceland is green  because the earth goes thru changes of warming and cooling .

"whats his agenda? " hmmm  lets go back to the early to mid 90s when he first started his little tree hugging adventure . clear cutting was out lawed " wich i argee with " but anyway the price of lumber went thru the roof so counstruction of houses went to metal studs , what the big deal you ask  zinc is used in the the galvanizing process . hmmm , what do you suppose big al had investments in ?

" whats his agenda? " the almighty $ thats his AGENDA .

read watch listen learn . do not follow one blindly and belive his word to be fact .

[kylem4711]

childish or not, you HAVE to admit al gore is a complete babbling crybaby idiot
trav

i dont really... ha

explain.   

i dont really want this to turn out to a politics thing because people just end up taking things way too seriously, but i happen to like him.
what did he do to you personally?

Personally? Well, I think trying to ban cars (muscle cars included) gets pretty personal since we are all members of a website dedicated to a specific muscle car. IMO he's using a naturally-occurring climate cycle to forward his phony agenda. I happen to think it makes sense that our planet would in fact steadily warm itself since the last ice age. But then we're not supposed to get political, right?

i dont think its natural whats happening.

the thing about him is, he uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists.  he doesn't just say stuff like it makes sense to him that the world would be heating up.   

you are of course entitled to your opinion about the subject,  its just i have looked at both sides and his makes the most sense. 

whats his agenda?  he has already he says he no longer wants to be in politics

it will be pretty damn hard to get rid of all the muscle cars, so im not toooo worried about that at the moment

you should have stopped at " i dont think " if you belive he "uses science to prove his point to why global warming exists " what he uses is very scued scare tactic twisted points of scince or scince fiction . he twists facts more than michael moore could ever dream of . 
. yes the planet if warming as it happens in a cycle of every 175 K or so years we just came out of a mini ice age in the early 1900s that lasted over 1000 years and as we speek the sun is moving closer to the earth , on dec 21 2012 the sun will be the closest it has ever been to the earth ever . do you think perhaps that may be a reason for the accellerated warming 
man has nothing to do with warming and theres nothing we can do to change it . think why was the middle east and northern affrica once a tropical place ? why is greenland made of ice while iceland is green  because the earth goes thru changes of warming and cooling .

"whats his agenda? " hmmm  lets go back to the early to mid 90s when he first started his little tree hugging adventure . clear cutting was out lawed " wich i argee with " but anyway the price of lumber went thru the roof so counstruction of houses went to metal studs , what the big deal you ask  zinc is used in the the galvanizing process . hmmm , what do you suppose big al had investments in ?

" whats his agenda? " the almighty $ thats his AGENDA .

read watch listen learn . do not follow one blindly and belive his word to be fact .

you feel better now bud?   ha   

you have your view on this and i have mine.

i could reply, but id rather go out.

[1969chargerrtse]

Don't forget that these same Tree Hugging people are the ones who drive the big SUV's , love their PC's and Laptops , and use all the other products that waste energy, create more pollution to power , or end up in land fills .
How can anyone honestly say that they are a Greenie then own a Musclecar ? I guess you ease your conscience by saying you do other things so you can spoil yourself.

tree hugging?   

i never said i was a greenie either.  I just said that i do a lot of other things, so i own a muscle car.  is it right?  nope, but thats how it is.


u need to get that hate out of your heart. 

Nothing wrong with owning a muscle car.  You should see the waste big corps do everyday, just throwing tons of things that could be recycled, ain't nothing wrong with a owning a Muscle car.

[Mike DC]

I agree. 

Personal cars/trucks are generally only a fraction of the overall CO2 problem. 
And the impact of vintage hot rods like ours is extremely tiny on the worldwide picture. 

We don't even burn enough gas in these things every year to let fuel prices steer us away from running 500" carbureted motors and 4.10 gears. 

[dkn1997]

go nuke baby!!  use the energy to make all the hydrogen or electicity you want.  take all of the current resources devoted to making gas/diesel more efficient and dump that huge pot of money into making nuclear power even safer.  The biggest concern would getting rid of the waste.  come up with a foolproof way to blast it into space and fly it into the sun and problem solved. Hell, figure out an ejecion seat type of scenario to blast the whole works into space if it starts melting down!!

Think of what would be possible if all the scattered resources devoted to saving energy using fossil fuels, etc were devoted to one type of energy saving strategy (nuke or whatever you want) ?  When that type of talent, effort, and money is put towards one single goal, anything is possible. how do you think they put a man on the moon almost 40 years ago with computers that were less powerful than the computer you are using right now?  it was a concentrated united effort by thousands of people with an unlimited budget, problem solved. it's a matter of importance.  Getting to the moon first was job 1 because we felt we needed to beat the russians there.

You would have to make it much safer than it is now, even though it's currently really safe, but nuclear energy, in my mind, if feasible.   

[The70RT]

It was in our local paper yesterday that BNSF is now making a hydrogen fuel cell switch locomotive in our town.

[kylem4711]

the company i work for,  edison,  is doing on site research for hydrogen fuel cell cars.


they posted this article today too.

State's 'hydrogen highway' may be out of gas

By Kimberly Kindy, MEDIANEWS SACRAMENTO BUREAU
1092 words
01/10/2008
The Oakland Tribune
English
(c) Copyright 2008 ANG Newspapers. All rights reserved.
SACRAMENTO — Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's vision of a "hydrogen highway" — 100 fueling stations by 2010 that would make it practical for California motorists to use nonpolluting hydrogen-powered fuel-cell vehicles — has hit a roadblock.

Each of the last three agencies that received state funding to build a fueling station has decided not to pursue the project, including Pacific Gas & Electric Co., which recently decided to abandon building a key Bay Area fueling station in San Carlos.

In addition, three stations have recently closed, including one in Richmond that served county buses and was dismantled this week.

That means the state is now down to 23 stations amid concerns that the technology is not viable in the near future and that it might be many more years before consumers have any real access to the vehicles that are now used mostly by government agencies in demonstration projects.

PG&E's decision to turn down

$1.5 million in state funds to build a large-scale, retail hydrogen station in San Carlos is especially noteworthy. The site was supposed to serve as a hub for hundreds of Mercedes-Benz's passenger vehicles that were going to be leased next year in Northern California — the first significant effort to make the vehicles available to the public.

Instead, PG&E officials said they've shifted hydrogen to the back stage and now consider it a distant technology, with electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids moving to the front of the line.

"Things have changed," said Jill Egbert, manager of PG&Es Clean Air Transportation division. "We feel hydrogen is a long-term solution, but there is no one technology that will be the silver bullet to meet transportation needs. From a resource standpoint, we feel a more pressing need to see how electric vehicles will affect our grid."

Hydrogen is a colorless, odorless gas. A fuel cell uses electricity harnessed from an electrochemical reaction involving hydrogen and oxygen to power the vehicle's motor. The new generation of hydrogen cars will be able to run for about 250 miles before refueling.

Environmental experts and automakers said the developments present statewide threats to the future of the hydrogen highway.

"This is a significant change in attitude. People are simply refusing to participate, even if they get money from the state. If state officials don't step in the hydrogen highway could collapse," said V. John White, executive director of the Center for Energy Efficiency & Renewable Technologies.

The setbacks have prompted Mary Nichols, who chairs the California Air Resources Board, to hold a meeting today in Sacramento with automakers, energy companies and members of the California Fuel Cell Partnership — a group of state and private interests working on the hydrogen highway program.

"We will be going over the status of the stations and talking about the commitments that have been made," said Nichols, who will represent the Schwarzenegger administration at the meeting.

Nichols characterized the problems as a "hiccup," and said she is "not surprised that it is taking a bit longer to get everything in place."

Analisa Bevan, who oversees the hydrogen program for the Air Resources Board, said it's been difficult to get companies to compete for the state funds, and then follow through.

In addition to PG&E, the state awarded over $1 million in funds each to San Diego Unified School District and California State University, Los Angeles, to build stations that fell through.

PG&E's Egbert said that because "no money has changed hands" her company is not obligated to build the station. However, Bevan said, in the case of PG&E, the state has a signed contract with the company, and the state is attempting to force PG&E to follow through on construction.

PG&E also owns one of the three hydrogen stations that have shut down. The site in San Francisco fueled three Mercedes-Benz's hydrogen cars used by PG&E. The Richmond station was owned by Hydrogenics Corp.

AC Transit has used the Richmond station for several years to fuel three hydrogen-powered buses used in its fleet and 10 passenger vehicles. The station had fallen into disrepair in December, and its daily production of hydrogen was no longer enough to fuel even one bus, said Jaime Levin, director of alternative fuels policy with the transit district.

Hydrogenics Corp. recently decided to pull out of operating the station.

"It doesn't fit with our current business priorities," said Robert McGillivray, the company's director for corporate development. "We design, sell and market hydrogen generation equipment."

Levin said the buses will be fueled at a hydrogen station it has in Oakland. AC Transit is also looking for another site, perhaps in Emeryville, since it is in the getting eight new buses. "They are lighter and will travel even further than the current buses."

William Craven, a general manager for Mercedes-Benz USA, said PG&E's moves might kill the company's plans to lease its cars to a more mainstream audience in the Bay Area. The company research headquarters, in Palo Alto, was also counting on the San Carlos station to help fuel test vehicles.

General Motors, which is rolling out its own line of hydrogen cars this year, said the trend is troubling and might also cripple its plans in Northern California.

"We are looking to cluster them in metropolitan areas like the Bay Area, and San Jose is a key for us," Britta Gross, manager of Hydrogen and Electrical Infrastructure for GM. "When you have large, modern stations failing to be built, that means others will not follow. The network doesn't spread."

There is one station in San Jose used exclusively to fuel three buses for the Santa Clara Transportation Authority. The program is expected to expand in 2009, although it will still be used for the bus line and plans are still being developed.

Several automakers plan to roll out hydrogen vehicles over the next two years, but they are all counting on drivers living or working within a few miles of an operating station.

American Honda and Mercedes-Benz plans on having a three-year lease at the cost of about $600 a month. GM is offering the car, for those who qualify, for free on a three-year lease.

[RD]

 
Yeah, I agree that we probably will build more nuclear plants.  We've got the raw uranium on US soil and we've got the facilities to enrich it.  And the big nuclear disaster scares of the past probably won't be such a factor in people's perceptions anymore since we've gone so long without an incident.  Homer Simpson is a scary thought in everyone's mind, but the fact is that he's been successful at keeping Springfield meltdown-free since the 1970s. 


It's not a perfect solution.  But IMO our radioactive nuclear waste may not end up doing any greater damage to the world than our "safe" ways of making power are doing. 

this is true.. nuke plants are alot safer, especially since they have started to use a special type of ceramic coating on the control rods "scram rods".  This will allow the reactor, if a coolant failure to take place, to actually reach critical mass without overheating the core, thus causing a meltdown.. e.g. chernobyl