Oh (*&@#$! Now what???

[Dave22443]

Notice anything missing from the plug at the top? 
I'll give you one guess where the rest of it is.     

Now what do I do?  Spend $1,000.00 or more fixing a $5 part?

[Ghoste]

You could try fishing a one of those long flexible magnets in there but really, I'd swallow hard and buy a gasket set, roll up my sleeves and prepare to get dirty. 
Sorry to hear about it.

[440charger68]

Holy S**T i have never seen anything like that before. Did it break apart into the cylinder? Or is the threaded part just stuck in there?

[Dave22443]

The threaded part is still in the head.  My guess is it will have to be drilled and tapped.  I've never seen this kind of thing happen before.  The bad thing is, this was only the 2nd plug.  There are 6 more still in there of unknown condition.  My guess is both heads will have to come off. 

This is my daily driver pickup truck and its not a good time of year to be forced to take the motorcycle to work. 

[Dave22443]

Oh, and by the way.  That rusted out piece of crap plug that left half itself in my head?  It was a Champion plug with about 27,000 miles on it 

[dukeboy_318]

wow, good luck, ive seen plugs break in half but not the way that did

[Mick70RR]

If only they all came apart that easily, ever tried gutting a plug to to weld an air line fitting to it?

[chargerbr549]

One thing I would try first would be spray all the plugs with Knocker Loose or something like PB Blaster and let them soak for overnight and then on the plug still stuck in the head use an easy out and see if you can work it out and if can somehow get a little propane torch in there with out burning things up and heat it up a little it may loosen up and one other thing is a take a hammer and a punch and tap on the plug a little bit and sometimes that will loosen it up, just a thought hopefully it can save you from pulling the head.

Kevin

[Ghoste]

Oh, and by the way.  That rusted out piece of crap plug that left half itself in my head?  It was a Champion plug with about 27,000 miles on it 

Over how long a time period?
It's just me, but I'd have probably changed them about 22,000 miles ago.  Everyone is different but it's a toy and for the price of plugs...
I don't mean that as a flame btw.

[NMike]

if it is in a steel head, heat the plug and head (not to glowing). then spray on a rust loosener spray. i use Rost-Off Ice by Wurth. then try to work it out with an easy out.

with some luck you won't be pulling the head.

[Dave22443]

Thanks guys.  Those are some good ideas.  It sure would be great if I didn't have to pull the heads.  I'm going out to soak the rest in PB Blaster now.   

I don't know if the heads are steel or not?  Its a 1998 Dodge Ram 5.9L engine.

The plugs had been in three, maybe four years?  I know, I know, but I've been busy and forgot about the truck   

[tan top]

If only they all came apart that easily, ever tried gutting a plug to to weld an air line fitting to it?

 

       yeah  me too , to make a leak down tester ,  i'll tell you something never came apart that easy

     sounds like a real good plan by ( NMike)  heat the SOB up & try to easy out it
although it is looking like heads off to me  wrong time of year like you say

[mally69]

Champian plugs are JUNK..    I bought a set and only had about 50 miles on them when the entire ceramic center section broke off inside my engine and got stuck in my exhuast valve and took a lobe off the cam and inturn bent the exhuast valve     so... i might as well just buy a set of 440 sources heads and sell the old 906's

[firefighter3931]

Some good suggestions so far....with any luck you won't have to pull the head. I like the Heat & Easy-out idea the best so far....just be careful not to crack the cylinder head.

I'm not a Champion fan either....NGK's in everything i own....even the lawnmower 



Ron

[RD]

get an extractor, something similar to this, but  can be found at any autozone, oreilly's, napa or advance.  they make them big enough that it will latch onto the threads and remove.. just go easy and use some heat and maybe some PB blaster.  Most likely saying the same thing as Ron.

[Dave22443]

Thanks for all the advice guys, thats why I like it here!

I have extractors, but nothing big enough for this job.  Will check the reccomended sources to see what I can find.  I am so glad that 2007 is almost over.  I am so DONE with this year its not even funny. 

[Nacho-RT74]

there is something still don't get... if the threated part is still there then the hex section too... is the same part !!!, so what's the deal on this?

Unless you are telling the hex section got broken and separated from the rest of part

[BrianShaughnessy]

I like to put a dab of anti seize compound on plug threads.    That's not going to help you now but wtf.   

[tan top]

    what about trying to weld a long bolt to the top where the   hex bit of the plug  would of been, then get a wrench on it

[Dave22443]

Nacho,  if you look closely at the picture at the top, you will see that the hex section seperated from the rest of the head, leaving only the threaded portion in the head.  On the plus side, I have two things, scratch that, three things working in my favor.

1) This particular plug just happens to be the easiest one to get to.
2) The heavier ring part of the head is still in there for an extractor to get a bite on.
3) I've got access to great people here on DC.com 

The biggest extractor I have is a #5 and its too small.  I'm calling around now trying to find an open store with a #6 and #7 that I can try.  If I can find one and mother luck will grant me one small wish, I think I can get it out of there without yanking the engine apart (something I have no time or funds to do).

As an update, I soaked all the plugs in PB Blaster last night and today, all but one of the remaining plugs came right out.  I shot the last plug with PB again and went to lunch.  When I came back, it came right out to.  Thanks again guys for all the advice and moral support!  I've still got the one busted plug to deal with, but at least its only one now.

I'll post an update when I have more to report.

[Dave22443]

 

[Animal]

Thank gawd for that.

One way to carry out a plug chop.

[Ghoste]

Way to go, nice to see it isn't turning out so bad after all.   

[tan top]

yippeeeeeeeeeeeee great stuff      good work

[firefighter3931]

Good stuff Dave....now remember : anti sieze and NGK plugs are your friend ! 



Ron

[Dave22443]

Thanks guys!  I owe it all to you!   

Man, let me tell you, that was by far the tightest nut I ever had to crack!  I soaked it for 24 hours in PB Blaster, I heated it for 15 minutes with my torch (unfortunately I don't have access to acetylene and only have a plumbers torch) and I got a really good plant with the extractor.

I don't have a handle for the extractor, so what I wound up doing was using a socket extension backwards (the extractor fit the 3/8 extension) and put a wrench on it.  Needless to say, that wasn't going to work.   

So then I grabbed my biggest pair of vise-grips and got a real solid bite on the square end of the socket extension and gave it all I had.  Still not enough! 

Next, I add every extension I have in the tool chest.  This allows me to literally get my cheast against the vise-grips and throw my entire 220  pounds against it.  STILL not enough!  It won't budge!   

I soak it again (5th time) with PB blaster and wait.  Then I hit it with the torch again until the edges are starting to glow slightly (this is the best I can do with my torch).  I set up for another go, only this time, I put a 3 ft long cheater bar over the handle of the vise-grips.  While laying over the fender, full weight against the handle and one foot against the frame, I grab the handle out as far as I can and I give it everything I've got and then some.

After about 30 seconds of poping blood vessles in my head, I suddenly hear a gut wrenching CRACK!  I freeze.  The tension has gone slack and I cuss myself.  That was the sound of a case hardened steel shaft snapping under the strain.  My first thought is, now the head has to come off!  There's no way I can get another extractor down beside a sheared off extractor 

I cautiously remove the extensions and see that the extractor appears to still be intact    I try to wiggle it with my fingers and it seems tight.  I put the extensions back on and slowly and carefully start to turn.  Now it feels like its screwing out like its supposed to 

I take the vise-grips off and unscrew it the rest of the way by hand and begin the voctory dance! 

After replacing it with a new plug, I started the truck up and got a huge cloud of smoke from the tail pipe!    I bet I had that piston half full of PB blaster!    Fortunately, it didn't take long to burn off.   

Ron, I used Autolite Platnums.  I had already bought them when you mentioned the NGK's.  I've always had good luck with Autolites and they don't cost as much.  HOWEVER, having said that, I will definately invest in a set for the new engine going in the Charger.     I don't know if you remember or not Ron, but you helped me spec out my engine.  It seems like its been in the shop forever, but its finally in finishing stages.  I can't wait to get it!


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=26497.new;topicseen#new

Thanks for all the help and support guys! I can't begin to tell you how relieved I am that I didn't have to pull the heads off!  I owe you all big time!   

Dave

[firefighter3931]

Dave, the autolites are better than Champion. I've read more than a few horror stories about the champs coming apart and dropping parts into the cylinder....not worth the risk. 

On daily driver type vehicles i change the plugs out once a year and use antisieze...never a problem to date. Once the plugs get rusty then you have a bitch of a time getting them out in one piece...as you found out 

Keep us up to date on the 440 progress. 



Ron

[4cruzin]

Well that had a happy ending!   Very cool!     

[Ghoste]

This is likely going to jinx me for sure, but I've never had a problem with a Champion plug in the 30 years I've been using them and this is the first time I've heard of one coming apart like that too. 

[tan top]

This is likely going to jinx me for sure, but I've never had a problem with a Champion plug in the 30 years I've been using them and this is the first time I've heard of one coming apart like that too. 

     me neither         

[BrianShaughnessy]

I prefer autolite platinums.       I have run lots of champions in the past but I prefer not to if possible whether or not Ma put them in at the factory or not. 

I tried the autolites a long time ago after diagnosing a no start on a 2.2 turbo Z was due to a blown apart insulator on a champion.    Replaced with autolites and ran the set for years and years.

I read posts from a guy that worked in their engineering shop in MI that posted on another board years ago about the testing they did to theirs and competitors products and I was fairly well impressed.

For what it's worth I don't much like AC's in GM products either. 
   

[dukeboy_318]

Good job dave, way to go, glad you didnt have to drill and tap it, these guys here on this site have probably helped me more than they should have, and they do it for free, thanks to those guys like ron and ghoste and all the others i cant seem to think of, many more chargers are on the road 

[Dave22443]

Thanks.  I think it was Kevin that first mentioned the easy-out and heat.  Turns out, thats exactly what it took, so I wanted to call him out by name and say thanks 

Its easy to panic when something like this happens to you.  When I posted the first picture, I didn't really expect help so much as I was just ranting.  Looking back on it now, it seems kind of silly that I would have freaked out lilke that, but its a lot easier to look at things from a third person point of view which is one of the main reasons boards like this are so useful    

[six-tee-nine]

I always put some copper paste on the thread before putting them in.... Glad you could manage it the easy way.

[Hemidog]

i love happy endings

[472 R/T SE]

You can always use the bigger easy outs on your water pump if you ever have to replace the heater hose nipples.  Another pain in the rear.

[RD]

congrats.. i love happy endings