Opinions please - project dilemma. back on track (updates with pics)

[dodgecharger-fan]

I find myself where I thought I'd never be: contemplating the idea of turfing my project and starting over.

Although things look to be well on their way with this car, I've hit a snag that began a serious roller coaster ride.

I had some major work done on the car a few years back - frame rails, quarters, floors, trunk, etc etc. I got it back in primer as planned.
My idea was to do much of the blocking and finish prep work myself then give it to a painter to do the final prep and then paint it.

Well, my plan stalled and the car has been sitting for about two and half years. That's not the bad part.
Some cracks developed in a few places while it was sitting. That's not even the bad part.

When I decided to go back to work on the project a couple of months ago, I started picking at the cracks with my fingernail. I opened up those cracks to holes a few inches big.

Under the body filler I found shiny new duct tape. Under some of the duct tape I found holes formed by the rust that used to be there - with new rust eating away at the edges.

Further investigation found strips of sheet metal tack-welded in place just enough  to hold filler. Those strips are starting to rust too.
I stopped there for fear of finding more and more.

This is by no means a rant thread. I've moved passed that and I am taking the high road. Some of you may know who did the work, but that's not what this is about. I am merely setting the stage for a discussion about next steps that I am considering and asking for your thoughts in hopes that someone might have an idea I had not yet considered. So, please, let's leave the negative comments about the workman out of this. If I ever get the opportunity to talk to him about this, I'll do it offline. (I hate that I am even posting all of this, but I can't figure out another way to explain where my head is at right now. I apologize for airing dirty laundry.)

At first, I took this as a new beginning for the project. I found some great used parts from a desert state. They are on their way.
I then started making arrangements to get the car shell and body parts to a shop that I trust completely. I've hit a snag or two in that process, but it's something that I can work around. It'll just take more time than I had anticipated (I need an enclosed transport because I want to leave the car on my rotisserie and I also need to move all of the loose fenders, hood, grille support, etc.)
I was actually excited. I decided the money was gone and I couldn't do anything about it that would help get the car done any sooner. I was focused on just doing what needed to be done.

My current plan is to strip the car back down to bare metal and see if there are any other areas that are not up to par. The parts I bought will cover all of the areas that were worked on. I may not need them all but I'd rather have them o hand than have to scramble to find them when I do. I figured if he could slap tape on a body panel, what did he do to the frame rail? I can't say that he did a good or bad job there. But the fact that I can't say either way REQUIRES me to strip everything down and check.

So, while laying awake last night, the thought of cutting the shell up and selling the good parts off - much like the parts I just bought - I could recoup about what I paid for the car originally - about $1000 - and still have all of the parts from the car. I could then get a better project car to start with and go from there. If I got what I wanted for the cut up body parts, the cost of my new project would be it's purchase price plus what I've paid out for the work done to my current project. Once the new project is done, I could sell off whatever remaining parts I have to recoup even more.


So, this leaves me with two ideas:
1. Stick to my current plan and throw good money after bad. Get the car stripped and repair anything that needs repairing. Then I'm back to where I was 2.5 years ago. Except this time, the shop will do all the work right into paint. I'll get the car back for reassembly.

2. Cut up the shell and sell off the parts (or sell the shell to a racer?), find another project and start over but with a lot of the parts collecting already done.

Either way: the money spent on the work done to the car is gone.

As for the car itself: it is a base model Charger, but with what I think is a pretty strange option list. So, I guess it's a question of whether this car should be saved or not.
It's originally a 383-4bbl car but the original motor is long gone. The car came to me with a '69 440.
F8 Green with a green vinyl top and a C6W white interior (black dash, carpet and console; white seats, doors and headliner)
woodgrain steering wheel
woodgrain dash inserts
AM/FM thumbwheel radio (I have one to go in it.)
power steering
power brakes
factory front disc brakes
factory A/C
6-way adjustable driver's seat
I have the fender tag and a partial build sheet that backs all of this up

So, while it's not an R/T or an SE (or an RT/SE ), it's a pretty interesting car.
I have almost everything I need to put it back to original but with the 440 instead of a 383.

I will not contemplate a re-body. Most of what makes this car interesting is the option list.
I feel I could throw whatever options I want on ANY car to make it what I want.
That doesn't change the fender tag, VIN, or build sheet, though. So, I don't really see the point of opening up that can of worms.

So, I am open to ideas, thought, opinions, insights. What would you do?

Thanks for reading.

[Brock Samson]

 Pretty Classy Post DCF..
off the top I'd say stick to your guns, Media blast it and stay the course... Unless you car find a significantly better Charger of course..

[Troy]

Are you planning on building it back to the fender tag/build sheet specs? Honestly, I'd try to start with a better project. I'm not just saying that under your circumstances either - I'll always recommend to find the most solid project. Body shop labor (usually) costs way more than the car itself. Also, the prices are low right now. Try to sell the entire car first if you can. Someone out there with more experience may be willing to tackle it and then you'd be fulfilling another's dream of having a Charger as well. It is likely (unfortunately) that the car is worth more as parts so, if you need the money, then that's the best route for you to take. I hate to part any car that is fixable (I have two that most would part but I've seen much worse cars put back on the road) but it's your car and your decision. In reality, if you can swing it, buy another project but keep this one for all the things the other one is likely missing. Once you have enough for a complete car then sell tis one. That's also a lesson from experience since I've sold stuff that I later realized that I needed.

I'm assuming of course that you knew what the condition of the car was before you started the last time. It was worth fixing then right? Now you just have to "undo" a bunch of crappy work but the car shouldn't be any worse.

Troy

[dodgecharger-fan]

Thanks Brock. I'm glad it came across that way. That was my goal.

[Steve P.]

I agree with Strat. You really don't know what you have until after you media blast. I would have to continue the course you are on at least until you can see and your body man can see exactly what you have to work with.

Best of luck.. 

[paironines]

I like the color combo. If you are emotionally attached to the car, you should push through and make a good car out of a bad situation. If you aren't attached to it, and you have the cash for a new project, there is nothing like a fresh start. It just depends on your situation. I wouldn't cut it up though.

[firefighter3931]

Pretty Classy Post DCF..
off the top I'd say stick to your guns, Media blast it and stay the course... Unless you car find a significantly better Charger of course..

I would blast the car down to bare metal to see what you have going on underneath....then decide a course of action. 


DCF (Dave) i'm in shock reading this post !   

I know you have a lot of time & money invested in this project....hopefully it can be salvaged without too much further grief ! 

This really sucks !!!! 



Ron

[blackcharger]

I like the color combo. If you are emotionally attached to the car, you should push through and make a good car out of a bad situation. If you aren't attached to it, and you have the cash for a new project, there is nothing like a fresh start. It just depends on your situation. I wouldn't cut it up though.

[JMF]

If you're capable of doing the work you mentioned then i'd stick with this one, at least you know the car, you could buy another one and it could have all sorts of hidden "Surprises", any pics?

[WheresMyCharger]

Stay the course, you know the weak spots of the car and it's strong points. Another purchase will also put you back to the begining and who knows what that may uncover  . Build it your way, you're spending the money and you're the one that will enjoy it. All of my cars have been personalized(modded,restified,whatever you call it) and when it came time to sell, nobody complained. Except for my '74 Roadrunner, no car sold for less than what I had into it, even after years of enjoyment.

[Charger-Bodie]

OK, first off let me say that I do body and restoration for a living so this opinion will be that of a bodyman.

Do you have pics of you're car that you could share from before? to see just how bad it was before the botched job took place and or any during pics ? The main reason I ask is because if he did do the structural work properly and it basically just needs 1/4 panel and some minor patch work Id say to run with it ! If thats not the case Id be more inclined to agree with Troy , in the respect that you should get a better Charger, finish it , then sell the current Charger. " Differant projects are for differant people" As a body man that kind of project would be more suited for someone that doesn't need to pay to get it done.

The only problem with stripping it down to See what is really there is that it becomes alot less saleable to most people. A complete car even described honestly with all the problem areas stated is gonna fetch far more than a stripped basket case.

Why do you not want to persue the guy who did the work for you and give him the chance to make it right at least with some sort of monetary reimbursement?

Good luck Buddy and remember its always darkest before the dawn! If you do decide to fix it eventually it will be done and you will look back and think to youreself Wow I went through all that how did I manage ? and then you'll look at the car a think ,awesome thats my Charger.

[dodgecharger-fan]

Thanks all for the feedback. I've always leaned towards staying the course. The idea of getting rid of the shell really only occurred to me this morning. Until then any thoughts of "cutting bait" included the whole car.
The idea I had this morning was more about just getting rid of the unkown - unknown in terms of what's been done and in terms of what it will take to fix.

I had always wanted to do the body work myself, but as soon as I realized that the frame rails needed work, I was smart enough to know that it was beyond my skills.
So, I thought I'd hire that out and get the big metal work done at the same time. Now. I feel that I am back to that point based solely on the fact that I don't know what was done right or not.

You guys are right though. I need to get it blasted and see what's what before I can make the right decision. The end result looks very good and I was always happy with what I got - and it wasn't cheap even though the shop rate was pretty good. Let's just say I have more in that one phase of the project than many of you have paid for a finished-ready-for-show car - even in the hayday of MOPAR prices. Once I got into it, it made sense to keep going. I think I was still on track to make out okay in terms of breaking even if I was forced to sell it the day after it was complete. That was never the goal but a logical approach to making financial decisions related to the project.

Thanks Ron for chiming in. I don't know what else to say. I'm not sure what I want to do about that whole deal.

1hot68, I have tons of pictures of before, during and after on my website. If you follow Chapter 4 on this page, there's links to pages and pages of pictures.
http://www.niagaramopars.com/Restoration.htm

I'll get some pictures of what I found so far posted somewhere and link them in later. Like I said though: I've stopped looking for fear of taking too much out of the body.
As for chasing after they guy that did the work. I know he's not doing the same work anymore. He might still have a shop, but it's my impression that he moved in to it and never really got it up and running.
I know someone has taken their car out of that shop after have it sit untouched for a long period of time.
He's working another job as far as I know. Not restoration. Not body work. However, all of this is just guessing and second hand information all be it from a reliable source.
Bottom line, it's my impression that he's hit some rough times. Even if I do go after him, I don't know what I'd get. Plus, I've made some very public statements about how happy I was with the work.
And again, I've moved passed it. Chalked it up to lessons learned. If I do get something back, I'll view it as a bonus.

I think what bugs me the most is that the real problem areas were done early in the project. So, they weren't rushed things near the end to finish up and get it out the door. He conciously chose to do these things in this manner.

[dukeboy_318]

Pretty Classy Post DCF..
off the top I'd say stick to your guns, Media blast it and stay the course... Unless you car find a significantly better Charger of course..

I would blast the car down to bare metal to see what you have going on underneath....then decide a course of action. 


DCF (Dave) i'm in shock reading this post !   

I know you have a lot of time & money invested in this project....hopefully it can be salvaged without too much further grief ! 

This really sucks !!!! 



Ron

  i think youre on the right course, however, if you do decide to part with it, dont cut it up , send me a pm, ive a got a person whos dying to have a 69 charger like he had back then, it was a also a 383.  anyway, back to topic, youre being very classy and i think you should stay the course, itll mean that much more when it is finally done 

[69bronzeT5]

Pretty Classy Post DCF..
off the top I'd say stick to your guns, Media blast it and stay the course... Unless you car find a significantly better Charger of course..

[RD]

me.. i would toss it, find a project in better condition and go forward without looking back.  options on cars are only on paper, you can make a car have all the OEM options available.

[bull]

I commend you for staying calm and rational about this; basically it sounds as if you're really trying to make lemonade out of lemons and that's a great attitude. I don't know if I could do that myself but I know from my own experience if you let this stuff get to you you'll be sick to the stomach all the time. I've had to let go of a lot of things during my restoration process but fortunately the bulk of it has gone well. I just hope we're not talking about ten of thousands of dollars though because that's lawsuit territory.

Anyway, I might go against the grain here a little because I'm one of those guys Brian is thinking of when he talked about different projects being for different people. I'm no body man and if something big like this had happened to me I would be very tempted to scuttle the whole project and start over with a finished (or close to) project. The one thing I would do however is have the whole car media blasted (as Brock said) and see for sure how bad it really is before you make a decision. I know Brian says don't do that but I think it would do two things. First, it would expose all the problems so you could more accurately assess the damage and repair costs. Second, it would allow you to develop an honest opinion of the car for a new buyer and make it so that person can actually see what's going on with it and develop his own opinion. It would be easy and inexpensive to give it a coat of epoxy primer after having it blasted to protect it from further damage. Just be sure you are there with a camera right after it's blasted so you can document all the issues it has.

I don't think cutting it up is a good idea, even though you could recoup much of your money. It's not the car's fault or your fault that this happened and basically I don't think destroying a fixable car is a good answer to your quandary. These days Chargers are too precious to be cutting up unless they are total junk IMO.

[dodgecharger-fan]

Thanks everyone. This helps a lot.

Troy, sorry. I missed your post earlier.
My plans for the car was to bring it back to LOOK like it did originally - or more accurately to look like it might in about 1972 after someone swapped engines (and hadn't yet gotten around to adding in the diamond tuck upholstery and dingle balls )

So, mostly back to fender tag, looking pretty much stock except for the 440 in it.
I'd do some upgrades if I can hide them well - stuff to make it more reliable, like relays for the headlights as one example.
I'm not going for show points.  I've even considered something along the lines of an XV type of thing, but on a lesser scale and I just don't think that's me. I like what they do and what others have done in similar ways. I just want something more nostalgic for this car.

I'm going to get around my transport issue by building some "legs" under the car and taking it off the rotisserie. That'll solve my ramp concerns and allow me to get the car to the shop.
I might even get that dolly done tomorrow or Monday.

[dukeboy_318]

   glad to hear, its great to know another charger is safe from destruction:yesnod:  good luck

[Mike DC]

I think you should figure out what you really have there first.

When the smoke clears, look at the car and try to mentally put yourself back where you were 2 years ago (before the bodywork):  If you would have been willing to pay to fix this current condition of the car back then, then I say just go ahead and finish it now.

   

[Ghoste]

I'm with Mike, you can't really decide whether to press on or cut it loose until you take it down and give it a proper reassessment.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Check the frame rails and then decide - it's your only option.

I've been down this road before, and I'm already over the budget I set out for the car, and I'm only halfway done.  And my story wasn't even as bad as yours.  If you really have to start from scratch and the frame rails are botched too, I'd probably scratch it and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

[NMike]

i looked over your web site. the only things that popped into my head are the repairs to the tailight panel, rockers and front frame rails.

the rest of the work seemed to be done pretty good, judging from the pics anyways. i think you are just in shock.

get the suspect areas blasted and rethink. i suspect that you are not as pooched as you think.

PS how much do you want for the shell? 

[Chargerguy74]

I don't feel anyone should be cutting up a car and parting it out if someone else will fix it up. A lot of people are into these cars just for the money, and not for the love of the cars. I have consiously over paid for some of my cars or parts with no intent to ever sell. A lot of cars are far too gone however, and parting is the best option. This is not an attack on anyone, just my opinion. I'd take the car back down to bare metal, and decide from there whether I'd want to take it on or let someone else have it. Sounds like you like the car for what it was and what it'll be, what better reason is there to keep it?

[six-tee-nine]

I saw your pictures and I would NOT decide anything before i had it media blasted. IMO the car is worth saving and even WAAAAAYYYYY to good to cut in pieces.

On the otherhand, if you need to get all the bodywork done by an shop it's gonna get pricey, but good projects are not on every streetcorner i guess.
If you gonna do the bodywork yourself then stick to it, there are some great pro's out here like 1hot68 who can help you talk trough that process..

I'd say "bon courage"  and stick to it, it's worth every drop of sweat in the end

[dodgecharger-fan]

Thanks again.

I should have said this earlier but the only reason that I thought about cutting it up is because I would not feel very comfortable selling it as is without knowing exactly what was going on with everything and be able to show it to any potential buyers.. and before yesterday, the thought hadn't crossed my mind at all. I always had a "keep it all" or "sell it all" frame of mind before then.