Does having subframe connectors on your Charger have an effect on it's value?

[SanDiego70RTSE]

I'm looking for feedback on this question. If I have MOPAR subframe connectors installed on my 70 Charger, would this have a positive or negative, no impact at all on it's value?

Thanks,
Mat

[PocketThunder]

No impact at all as far as i'm concerened.  I'm going to put them on my 69 C500 and I could care less what it does to the value.  Its just metal that can be cut out if the next guy feels the need to do so.

[Steve P.]

It completely depends on the cars purity. If you have a completely factory show/untouched car and you want all the bangs and bucks I would not put them on....

If you have changed color/motor/interior/ponies or it's got something UN PURE, do it. It will help to keep the body in good shape. Literally....

[TUFCAT]

I agree with Steve and Pocket.  However, I will add this. ...if its a stock restoration that is otherwise unmolested, adding frame rail connectors is bad for value.   If the car is restored to "look" stock (with some modern upgrades and performance modifications) than that's okay.

[Hemidoug]

I've been mulling that very question over myself... ....I decided to go for it because it came down to this.....At my HP level I could stand a very good chance of distorting the body of the Hemi car....so which is worth less, a Hemi car with a bent unibody or one with frame connectors? I think you can see why I'm going with the frame connectors...

[70 Charger RT]

For my restoration, it wouldn't change the value because there were other mods done to the car and it isn't "pure".  Here'as a picture.  It's a weld-in, not a bolt-on.

[tan top]

    , put them on mine also torque boxes front & rear  , not bothereed if it hurt the value  ,  as never going to part with it  , 

[moparstuart]

    , put them on mine also torque boxes front & rear  , not bothereed if it hurt the value  ,  as never going to part with it  , 

i put them on my super bird convertible also , wanna put a hemi in it someday figures it was the best way to go

[skip68]

I'm doing them on my car.  And I to don't care about the value as my car is not original recipe.

[bullit68]

i put bolt in mp connectors in my 68 440(now 426) 4 spd rt.i've heard that bolting them in is not as good as welding them though.when i restored the car it had stress cracks all over the floor pans.nothing my welder couldn't fix.hemi doug,its so good to see someone with a rare and valuable hemi charger that actually uses it for its intended purpose and not just to restore and flip.i also have a 69 rt hemi 4 spd car that i plan to restore/restify and drive hard.no rotisseries here!

[Mike DC]

 
Subframe connectors won't hurt the car's value half as much as a twisted up unibody.  Modern tires can hit those bodies a lot harder than the original 7" wide bias-plys.   

Some subframe-connecting jobs leave a lot more irreversible damage than others.  If you do it carefully with the right mounting methods, then they could theoretically be cut/ground back off without leaving major evidence. 

Just don't cut the flooring and don't go overboard with the SC's.  Remember that SC's are only there to stop that area from being the weakest link in the chassis.  If normal-sized SCs aren't enough, then putting a set of huge thick I-beams between the subframe rails isn't gonna help.  The weakest spot is already gonna be somewhere else.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bolted-on subframe connectors might be better than nothing but I'm not really a fan. 

The factory K-frames were bolted on more securely than we could ever hope to get a set of frame connectors thanks to the built-in intention from the factory.  But the K-frames still shift on their bolts with some pressure applied. 

Getting a set of bolt-ins held securely enough to do the job . . . you'd probably have to do as much damage (with multiple bolt-holes, gusseting areas to protect against the holes stretching, etc)  as the damage from just welding in some SC's in the first place. 

 

[1969chargerrtse]

How about someone showing me what they are?  Any pictures, or reasons why one would alter a car to put them on?

[Charger74]

How about someone showing me what they are?  Any pictures, or reasons why one would alter a car to put them on?

There is a picture at the top of this thread with them.   As for why, they increase the rigidity of the car, if you have a high torque motor such as a hemi, well built big block or a stroker motor, sc's will prevent the car from twisting between the front and rear subframes thus causing body distortion.  Plus by doing this, it actually has been proven that it increases handling performance in corner.


Hope this helps,

Brent

[firefighter3931]

I've been mulling that very question over myself... ....I decided to go for it because it came down to this.....At my HP level I could stand a very good chance of distorting the body of the Hemi car....so which is worth less, a Hemi car with a bent unibody or one with frame connectors? I think you can see why I'm going with the frame connectors...

It's pretty much a no-brainer to add frame connectors on any BB Charger. I've seen lots with torn sheetmetal in the door jambs and cowl area over the years. Many of those cars had never been to the track...just beat on with street tires that didn't hook all that well. 



Ron

[Hemidoug]

I've been mulling that very question over myself... ....I decided to go for it because it came down to this.....At my HP level I could stand a very good chance of distorting the body of the Hemi car....so which is worth less, a Hemi car with a bent unibody or one with frame connectors? I think you can see why I'm going with the frame connectors...

It's pretty much a no-brainer to add frame connectors on any BB Charger. I've seen lots with torn sheetmetal in the door jambs and cowl area over the years. Many of those cars had never been to the track...just beat on with street tires that didn't hook all that well. 



Ron

Yea Ron...you talked some sense into me....... Now I'll feel bad if I happen to win our little challenge....

[firefighter3931]

Yea Ron...you talked some sense into me....... Now I'll feel bad if I happen to win our little challenge....

Doug, i am glad to hear that you are installing the frame connectors.    Your car is too freakin nice to risk hurting the sheetmetal and/or paint. 


No need to feel bad if you win  ....i just want to make sure everything is "even" when we line em up !   

Number one priority is protecting the structural integrity of these cars and keeping things safe & going straight (not sideways) down the track ! 


Looky here : another Hemi vs Wedge shootout in the making 


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,37332.0.html




Ron

[bamadukefan02]

I know what a subframe connector is and what it looks like and I know what a torque box does but what does it look like.  Is it actually a square shape or is the use of box in the name inacurate.  A pic would be great if someone has one.  By the way as of yet I do not own a Charger I am just curious and making notes for when I do own a Charger

Holt

[Hemidoug]

Yea Ron...you talked some sense into me....... Now I'll feel bad if I happen to win our little challenge....

Doug, i am glad to hear that you are installing the frame connectors.    Your car is too freakin nice to risk hurting the sheetmetal and/or paint. 


No need to feel bad if you win  ....i just want to make sure everything is "even" when we line em up !   

Number one priority is protecting the structural integrity of these cars and keeping things safe & going straight (not sideways) down the track ! 


Looky here : another Hemi vs Wedge shootout in the making 


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,37332.0.html




Ron

I think we need to get a good old fashioned DC.com shootout going...Kind of like Pinks all out.....8 or 16 car tree.....line em up...ya go to the winners circle or back to the trailer....

[joflaig]

I plan on adding sub-frame connectors next fall, either the standard setup (welded) or maybe these new laser cut seemless looking things. However, that will be about 6 months after my 517 engine build "goes live". I did just add a 4-point roll cage and I know that gets you some stability and reduces body twist, but I don't know to what degree and if I should just go with the sub-frame connectors now. The current floor pans are getting replaced next fall so if I did it now I guess I would not be using the laser cut connectors. I am a bit weary on this, because I am building the rear end to really hook.

[nakita7]

Brings down the value to me....

[Ghoste]

If you are restoring a car with a mind to it's value, it should only be restored to stone stock perfect original status and rarely driven.  If the intent is to drive it frequently and it's a bone stock museum piece then I still think no frame connectors are fine.  But, if you modify the engine or plan to drive the wheels off the thing, then maximizing it's B-J bragging rights should be the least concern.
Perhaps another way to look at it would be that adding frame connectors to a car like Dougs might lower it's value in the eyes of some (certainly the purists and investoflippers), but how much does it raise the fun factor for the driving crowd? 

[bordin34]

I think we need to get a good old fashioned DC.com shootout going...Kind of like Pinks all out.....8 or 16 car tree.....line em up...ya go to the winners circle or back to the trailer....

I'm in, if my charger even feels like running and I would need a drivers license or permit.

[400/6/PAC]

I Put them on my 73.
Never thought about the value, I just wanted the added strength.

[bordin34]

Which ones did you get for your 73? Were they weld in or bolt-in?

[bakerhillpins]

How about someone showing me what they are?  Any pictures, or reasons why one would alter a car to put them on?

There is a picture at the top of this thread with them.   As for why, they increase the rigidity of the car, if you have a high torque motor such as a hemi, well built big block or a stroker motor, sc's will prevent the car from twisting between the front and rear subframes thus causing body distortion.  Plus by doing this, it actually has been proven that it increases handling performance in corner.


Hope this helps,

Brent

Brent

Not trying to be an a** here - while the posted picture may have them in, the fact that I don't know what they are either doesn't really help me see them in the pic. It looks like the undercarriage of an orange Charger.. If there were a before and after pic I might be able to figure it out.

Bryan 

[bordin34]

They are the frame rails that go from the leaf springs to the torsion bar cross-member. They run front to back.

[bakerhillpins]

They are the frame rails that go from the leaf springs to the torsion bar cross-member. They run front to back.

Ahh, I see said the blind man.  Thanks!

[400/6/PAC]

Which ones did you get for your 73? Were they weld in or bolt-in?

Weld on.

[Troy]

Doug, I think adding hand-made bars (ie. 2"x4") will make them easier to remove later if necessary. The ones from XV and  US Car Tool weld all the way down the floor. They are much more subtle and almost look factory but I can imagine that removing them would be a major pain. You sure you don't need a cage?

Oh, to answer the original question, negative - but it only matters if you plan on selling.

Troy

[Spike]

Example frame connectors

[70sixpkrt]

What frame connector's are better, the US Cartool or Magnum Force?

[bamadukefan02]

Does anyone have a pic of a torque box so I will know what the heck they look like?

[1969chargerrtse]

Example frame connectors

Thanks.  I don't have a car with enough power to justify the use.    Fantastic pictures and info though.

[Dennis]

I'm looking for feedback on this question. If I have MOPAR subframe connectors installed on my 70 Charger, would this have a positive or negative, no impact at all on it's value?

Thanks,
Mat

USCartool.  One ride around the block and you will know that it is the best upgrade ever.  Purists are ...never mind.

[Troy]

Does anyone have a pic of a torque box so I will know what the heck they look like?

A few pics from other discussions:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21561.msg234345.html#msg234345
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1885.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,19785.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21037.msg228860.html#msg228860
Scattered throughout this thread you can see them as well:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,8760.0.html
We have a search function that can be accessed from the top of every page. Sometimes you need to work a little to get exactly what you want but it can be hours of entertainment. I still can't find the close-up pics of hemi68charger's car even though I have them downloaded on my PC at home.

Troy

[BROCK]

The frame connectors on that Orange car look sweet - very original looking.  They dont stand out
as being aftermarket or call attention to themselves

I agree with most all of you on both yes & no answers.  My 70 is all original & a rarer version than
most, so I'll restore it to original with maybe a little cam   My 72 is for fun & doesn't really
have value to destroy.  I'm planning torque boxes & frame connectors in the very least

[Big Sugar]

What frame connector's are better, the US Cartool or Magnum Force?

Well if your worried about originality, You can remove a tube style frame connector easier and with no residual damage over the US Cartool style  connector.

I've got a 2"+1" (weld in) connectors and I noticed the improvement just backing the Charger out of the shop. If your running anything over 400hp your doing your chassis a favor by adding a set !

So  "No" I don't think it hurts the value.
  If I were building a #'s matching ,1 off, 70 Hemi  right now.....I'd still add a set of connectors !

Ron

[Spike]

Does anyone have a pic of a torque box so I will know what the heck they look like?

From http://www.harmsauto.com/

[Charger-Bodie]

Does anyone have a pic of a torque box so I will know what the heck they look like?

From http://www.harmsauto.com/

And keep in mind the front ones are for convertibles! They can be added for extra strength but not if going for correct looking.