Did Dodge make a Charger Super Bee?

[MyMopar]

Been a while guys but that is not the point.  The new Charger has a trim level called Super Bee.  Now I was talking explaining how I didn't think the Charger ever came as a Super Bee.  Now I do know that in 1971 Dodge switched the Super Bee over to the Charger platform, but is it truely a Dodge Charger Super Bee or is it just a Dodge Super Bee?
The thing that makes me think it was a seperate model was that the production totals of the Dodge Super Bee isn't listed with the Charger, 500, SE and R/T numbers. 
Now the other confusing thing is that I have seen a 71 Dodge Superbee and it had the Charger script on it so I just need some clarification.
Please someone set me straight.

[RD]

I would say its a Dodge Superbee Charger LOL  hell I dont know... maybe the superbee guru on this site will see this and get us all straight... but its a Charger in my eyes... 

[bull]

Like it matters. They do whatever the heck they want with the names now. It means nothing to them other than the possibility of more zeroes at the bottom of a spread sheet.

[69charger2002]

the 1970 was a coronet based version, as i'm sure you know. the 1971 only was definitely a dodge charger with the superbee option. so to clarify it is correct to say there WAS a charger super bee for that year. not a super bee with a charger logo.. though it was so odd why they did that.. kind of like clinging on to the GTX moniker for a while..
trav

[Chad L. Magee]

trav-  You are right, in 1971 there was a Superbee option on the Charger that year and that year only.  As much as I looked, there was no 1972 superbees produced by Dodge.  I found a 71 in a junkyard once years ago (when I was starting out) and thought "what in the world" at the superbee emblems on a basic 1971 Charger body, since I was used to the earlier ones (1968-70 Coronet based)............

[69CoronetRT]

the 1970 was a coronet based version, as i'm sure you know. the 1971 only was definitely a dodge charger with the superbee option. so to clarify it is correct to say there WAS a charger super bee for that year. not a super bee with a charger logo.. though it was so odd why they did that.. kind of like clinging on to the GTX moniker for a while..
trav

the 71 Bee carried a WM VIN code just like it had since 68. The Charger X VIN designation ceased to exist in 71. It is probably more correct to say the Coronet and Charger lines were merged into one Dodge B body offering instead of two like there had been since '66. 1971 four doors carried the Coronet nameplate while two doors were badged Chargers. The basic body was still called a Coronet by manufacturing standards. The Super Bee was still the mid line B body performance offering where the Charger R/T was the upper level performance car.

The Super Bee was not an option on a Charger. It was it's own separate sub model just as it had always been.

[69charger2002]

so since all 71 2 door chargers didn't start with an X, would it be safe you say your take on it is ALL 2 door chargers were basically coronets by "manufacturing standards". if not explain to me your difference
trav

also would a person have sat down with a salesman in 1971 and ordered a 71 coronet, but a 2 door super bee version... or would they have ordered a 2 door charger with the super bee package?? which is where i make my basis for my opinion.. though i am no 3rd gen expert

[RD]

i dont know about that one coronetrt.  i believe the superbee was a package on the charger and not vice versa.  whenever i talk to people about 68-70 superbees, i usually state a coronet superbee

Comments: The Super Bee switched over to the Charger platform for 1971 but still represented a low-cost, high performance package. Priced at $3,271, the Dodge Charger Super Bee included a 383 cid Magnum V8 with a single four barrel carb rated at 300 bhp (down 35 bhp from the year before due to detuning), three speed floor shift, power bulge hood (black finished), tape stripes, bee decals, and a Charger 500 interior, except with a standard bench seat. The Super Bee also came with a heavy duty suspension, fat F70-14 tires, and a long list of optional equipment. Still optional was the 440 Six Pack and the mighty 426 Hemi, rated at 385 bhp (down 5 bhp) and 425 bhp respectively. Only 22 Hemis were built, nine with four speeds, and 13 with the Torqueflite.

Production:
Engines: 383 V8 300bhp@4800rpm, 410lb-ft@3400rpm. 426 Hemi V8 425bhp@5000rpm, 490lb-ft@4000rpm. 440 Six Pack V8 385bhp@4700rpm, 490lb-ft@3200rpm.
Performance: 440/390: 0-60 in 6.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in 14.7 seconds. 426/425: 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.7 seconds.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/dodge-superbee/dodge-superbee-history.shtml

AND...

look at the title when you click on the link

http://www.71superbee.com/

[69CoronetRT]

so since all 71 2 door chargers didn't start with an X, would it be safe you say your take on it is ALL 2 door chargers were basically coronets by "manufacturing standards". if not explain to me your difference
trav

also would a person have sat down with a salesman in 1971 and ordered a 71 coronet, but a 2 door super bee version... or would they have ordered a 2 door charger with the super bee package?? which is where i make my basis for my opinion.. though i am no 3rd gen expert

I still can't find a way to fully explain what I'm trying to say in the first concept. Since they blended the two B body models together and called the four doors Coronets, keeping the Coronet as the more mom and pop four doors and wagons, and the two doors the Chargers, keeping the wildly successfuly Charger name plate as the 'sporty' two door Dodges it does make things different than what had been done in years past.

The Super Bee was a stand alone Sub Model in 71 just as it had been 68-70. It was not an option package on a Charger like an A12, A13, A47 option package was in the previous years on other cars.

[RD]

The Charger model designation expanded in '71 - there was the Base model, Custom, 500, SE, R/T and Super Bee.

as per Johnnybee's website.

[69CoronetRT]

i dont know about that one coronetrt.  i believe the superbee was a package on the charger and not vice versa.  whenever i talk to people about 68-70 superbees, i usually state a coronet superbee

Comments: The Super Bee switched over to the Charger platform for 1971 but still represented a low-cost, high performance package. Priced at $3,271, the Dodge Charger Super Bee included a 383 cid Magnum V8 with a single four barrel carb rated at 300 bhp (down 35 bhp from the year before due to detuning), three speed floor shift, power bulge hood (black finished), tape stripes, bee decals, and a Charger 500 interior, except with a standard bench seat. The Super Bee also came with a heavy duty suspension, fat F70-14 tires, and a long list of optional equipment. Still optional was the 440 Six Pack and the mighty 426 Hemi, rated at 385 bhp (down 5 bhp) and 425 bhp respectively. Only 22 Hemis were built, nine with four speeds, and 13 with the Torqueflite.

Production:
Engines: 383 V8 300bhp@4800rpm, 410lb-ft@3400rpm. 426 Hemi V8 425bhp@5000rpm, 490lb-ft@4000rpm. 440 Six Pack V8 385bhp@4700rpm, 490lb-ft@3200rpm.
Performance: 440/390: 0-60 in 6.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in 14.7 seconds. 426/425: 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.7 seconds.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/dodge-superbee/dodge-superbee-history.shtml

AND...

look at the title when you click on the link

http://www.71superbee.com/

The first article is pretty accurate but still contains some common errors and a slight lack of clarifying detail.

The standard engine was the 335 bhp four barrel 383 cid V8 that borrowed cylinder heads, camshaft and induction system from the Magnum 440.

The 906 cylinder heads were standard on all big blocks. The 383s didn't 'borrow' heads from anyone. The cam and springs DID come from the 440 Magnum. The induction system is different. You can't put a 440 manifold on a 383 and the 383 four barrel intake is the same regardless if the engine was an HP engine or not. The carbs are different between the R/Ts and the Super Bees too. So the induction system was not borrowed either. Also, IIRC, the Inland shifter was used first then replaced by the Hurst shifter.

It is common to call the consolodation of the 71 2 door Dodge B bodies "Chargers" as that was what they were badged and promoted as. The VIN on a 71 Super Bee still starts WM as it had from 68-71. The four door Coronet line up still starts W as it had since 65. A Charger vin started with X from 66-70 and again from 75-78.

If you are going to use the argument that 71-74 2 door B bodied Dodges are Chargers simply because Dodge said they were, badged, and advertised them as such, you have to be consistent in your argument that all following cars, including the newest version and other horrible aborrations in between, that carry the Charger name are also "Chargers".

If the 71 Super Bee was an option package on the Charger, what is the package option code?

[ACUDANUT]

  You guys are making this too hard on yourselfs.  It's just a name added to a Charger to keep the bee alive for one more fatal year.

[69CoronetRT]

  You guys are making this too hard on yourselfs.  It's just a name added to a Charger to keep the bee alive for one more fatal year.

either that or two door Coronets were badged Chargers.

[Ponch ®]

[Brock Samson]

i guess i could look it up,..
  but did they make any 340 engined chargers, i guess they would have to be super bees...
equivelant to my 340 Road Runner?...
i know they made 383s and the rare HEMIs...

[MyMopar]

Thanks for the info.  I am going to have to say that reading the different takes, the Charger could have been a Charger Super Bee for 1971.  I guess if they didn't include the Charger script on the Super Bee model you could say it was different. 

[69CoronetRT]

This may help. It's the 71 Dodge data book Charger section

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/dealerships/1971DealershipDataBook-03.shtml

[69charger2002]

  You guys are making this too hard on yourselfs.  It's just a name added to a Charger to keep the bee alive for one more fatal year.

either that or two door Coronets were badged Chargers.

see the difference is they ALWAYS had 2 door chargers up to that point. a 4 door was not an option. on a coronet they had 2 doors AND 4 doors.. so in 71 it's easy to see they made the coronet a 4 door only, and a charger was the 2 door version.  also the super bee was not an "A47" type option, designated on a fender tag code. it was an "option" as far as it was checked off as opposed to ordering a R/T charger, 500 charger, etc. so technically the super bee was an optional model of a CHARGER. yes you are right that the coronet and charger kind of merged.. but in no way was the super bee a coronet model for 1971.

[1972Rallye]

Thanks for the info.  I am going to have to say that reading the different takes, the Charger could have been a Charger Super Bee for 1971.  I guess if they didn't include the Charger script on the Super Bee model you could say it was different. 

Everything 69CoronetRT stated is accurate (as usual... he knows his Mopars)!

Call it "Charger Super Bee" just like the prior 3 years were "Coronet Super Bees".  They all had their own seperate model designation in the VIN (WM), therefore NOT technically an option.  You couldn't order a Super Bee option on a base Charger... you ordered a Charger Super Bee... then optioned from there.

FYI...There were 6 Charger models in 1971.

WL21 - Charger Coupe
WH23 - Charger Hardtop
WM23 - Charger Super Bee
WP23 - Charger 500
WP29 - Charger SE
WS23 - Charger R/T

Pic is from Hamtramck Historical link posted by 69CoronetRT

[1972Rallye]

i guess i could look it up,..
  but did they make any 340 engined chargers, i guess they would have to be super bees...
equivelant to my 340 Road Runner?...
i know they made 383s and the rare HEMIs...

Yes... about 320 of them.

440 4bbl approx. 26 (not supposed to have been available)
440 6 Pack approx. 99
426 Hemi approx. 22

[greatwn73]

There was also a 71 2 door Coronet in Charger sheetmetal but as I remember they were \6 with bench seat and rubber floormat (no carpet) only. I've seen pics but never one in person.

[Ghoste]

I've never even heard of that one before.  Where did you see the pics?

[RD]

There was also a 71 2 door Coronet in Charger sheetmetal but as I remember they were \6 with bench seat and rubber floormat (no carpet) only. I've seen pics but never one in person.

courtesy allpar:

and in 1971, a new Coronet was introduced, with a much simpler grille, a new 118 inch wheelbase, more rounded styling, and a more subtle Coke bottle side styling. The coupe was no longer available, leaving the four door sedan and wagon, in Custom and Brougham series for sedans and Custom and Crestwood series for wagons; the confusing 440 designation and the 500 and R/T were dropped, and the Super Bee moved over to the Charger line, keeping its standard 383 engine; it only lasted a single model year as a Charger, disappearing by the 1972 model year.

seeing is believing

[69CoronetRT]

There was also a 71 2 door Coronet in Charger sheetmetal but as I remember they were \6 with bench seat and rubber floormat (no carpet) only. I've seen pics but never one in person.

courtesy allpar:

and in 1971, a new Coronet was introduced, with a much simpler grille, a new 118 inch wheelbase, more rounded styling, and a more subtle Coke bottle side styling. The coupe was no longer available, leaving the four door sedan and wagon, in Custom and Brougham series for sedans and Custom and Crestwood series for wagons; the confusing 440 designation and the 500 and R/T were dropped, and the Super Bee moved over to the Charger line, keeping its standard 383 engine; it only lasted a single model year as a Charger, disappearing by the 1972 model year.

seeing is believing

I would very much like to see a 71 2 door badged Coronet from the factory.

Allpar is a pretty good site but in order to be all encompasing, it does contain errors. There were three trim levels of '71 Coronet 4 door and wagons. The article omits any reference to the base model Coronet.

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/dealerships/1971DealershipDataBook-04.shtml

[WheresMyCharger]

My friends 71

[/img]
save picture as....on your computer and then zoom on the upper right emblem.

[d72hemi]

Thanks for the info.  I am going to have to say that reading the different takes, the Charger could have been a Charger Super Bee for 1971.  I guess if they didn't include the Charger script on the Super Bee model you could say it was different. 

Everything 69CoronetRT stated is accurate (as usual... he knows his Mopars)!

Call it "Charger Super Bee" just like the prior 3 years were "Coronet Super Bees".  They all had their own seperate model designation in the VIN (WM), therefore NOT technically an option.  You couldn't order a Super Bee option on a base Charger... you ordered a Charger Super Bee... then optioned from there.

FYI...There were 6 Charger models in 1971.

WL21 - Charger Coupe
WH23 - Charger Hardtop
WM23 - Charger Super Bee
WP23 - Charger 500
WP29 - Charger SE
WS23 - Charger R/T

Pic is from Hamtramck Historical link posted by 69CoronetRT

A little off topic, but what is difference between a hard top (WL23)  and a coupe (WL21)  anyway?

Ian

[WheresMyCharger]

Ian, it has something to do with the side rear windows, The hardtop windows roll down, not sure on the coupe.

[Nacho-RT74]

Thanks for the info.  I am going to have to say that reading the different takes, the Charger could have been a Charger Super Bee for 1971.  I guess if they didn't include the Charger script on the Super Bee model you could say it was different. 

Everything 69CoronetRT stated is accurate (as usual... he knows his Mopars)!

Call it "Charger Super Bee" just like the prior 3 years were "Coronet Super Bees".  They all had their own seperate model designation in the VIN (WM), therefore NOT technically an option.  You couldn't order a Super Bee option on a base Charger... you ordered a Charger Super Bee... then optioned from there.

FYI...There were 6 Charger models in 1971.

WL21 - Charger Coupe
WH23 - Charger Hardtop
WM23 - Charger Super Bee
WP23 - Charger 500
WP29 - Charger SE
WS23 - Charger R/T

Pic is from Hamtramck Historical link posted by 69CoronetRT

A little off topic, but what is difference between a hard top (WL23)  and a coupe (WL21)  anyway?

Ian

WL21 and WH23... WL23 does not exist.

WL21, fixed quarter windows attached with a bracket, no woodgrain inserts ( on standart cluster, passenger side dash insert, adn door panels ) mostly were front 50/50% split bench with vinyl.

WH23 roll down quarter window, Woodgrained finish everywhere, and if bench, I think cloth insert instead vinyl.

Not sure about bench setup thought

[69CoronetRT]

Thanks for the info.  I am going to have to say that reading the different takes, the Charger could have been a Charger Super Bee for 1971.  I guess if they didn't include the Charger script on the Super Bee model you could say it was different. 

Everything 69CoronetRT stated is accurate (as usual... he knows his Mopars)!

Call it "Charger Super Bee" just like the prior 3 years were "Coronet Super Bees".  They all had their own seperate model designation in the VIN (WM), therefore NOT technically an option.  You couldn't order a Super Bee option on a base Charger... you ordered a Charger Super Bee... then optioned from there.

FYI...There were 6 Charger models in 1971.

WL21 - Charger Coupe
WH23 - Charger Hardtop
WM23 - Charger Super Bee
WP23 - Charger 500
WP29 - Charger SE
WS23 - Charger R/T

Pic is from Hamtramck Historical link posted by 69CoronetRT

A little off topic, but what is difference between a hard top (WL23)  and a coupe (WL21)  anyway?

Ian

Ian, if you look at the picture 72Rallye posted you can see the coupe (21) at the bottom. See the line that runs vertical right behind the door to the roof? That's the front support for the rear window. Compare it to the hardtop (23) picture right above it. See how the HT doesn't have that line? On the HT, the rear window rolled down.

The 71 Dodge Color and Trim book is also posted on the Hamtramck site. You can compare what interiors were available for each model.

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/dealerships/1971ColorAndTrim-01.shtml

[TUFCAT]

There was also a 71 2 door Coronet in Charger sheetmetal but as I remember they were \6 with bench seat and rubber floormat (no carpet) only. I've seen pics but never one in person.

I disagree.  However, greatwn73 is from Canada, so it's possible that an el cheapo model could've been made for Canada only ... and called a "Coronet".  The models and designations were not always the same for the Canadian market.

[bull]

 

[TUFCAT]

Wait a minute!! ..... I like that new Bee - - A LOT!! 

[Ponch ®]

Wait a minute!! ..... I like that new Bee - - A LOT!! 

Whatsa matta', bull...you don't like yellow?

[bull]

Yea, that's all it is. 

[ACUDANUT]

 Great, now we have four door Super Bee's and they are still "Chargers" with more decals.

[Ghoste]

There was also a 71 2 door Coronet in Charger sheetmetal but as I remember they were \6 with bench seat and rubber floormat (no carpet) only. I've seen pics but never one in person.

I disagree.  However, greatwn73 is from Canada, so it's possible that an el cheapo model could've been made for Canada only ... and called a "Coronet".  The models and designations were not always the same for the Canadian market.

As a lifelong Canuck, let me just say I have yet to see such a thing.  If such a vehicle exists, and I am not saying it doesn't, I will stick my neck out and say that it was NOT some special Canada only model.

[General_01]

I hope so. (see below)

[T3/RT]