Media blast or Dip

[NMike]

i am going to be starting my complete 69 rebuild. i have easy access to each method. which do you prefer and why?

i have a place that will plastic media blast the underside and then walnut the outside. then do some kind of dip to get rid of the remaining dust.

there is another place that will dip the car to clean, pressure wash with water, then dip again to bring the shell to bare steel. after the sheet metal work is done, they will dip again to remove any surface rust then phosphate dip the shell for rust proofing.

which one would you pick?

[PocketThunder]

Caustic soda?  i've never heard of that.  what is it?  just like acid dip?  or is it the same thing?

[Rolling_Thunder]

Caustic soda?  i've never heard of that.  what is it?  just like acid dip?  or is it the same thing?

caustic acid bath...      best way to strip a car...     gets rid of EVERYTHING

[bzabodyn]

We're going the soda bath route with the HEMI charger, FYI...

BZ

[hotrod98]

I never dip cars. It removes seam sealer in places that are impossible to get at to replace it. It also removes all of the flutter control substance that keeps the car from rattling.
Besides, that stuff ends up down in the quarters and any other recess that it flows into which can lead to rusting on cars that never had rust issues before.
I say go with the media blasting performed by a professional.
The ideal way is to sand all surfaces possible with sandpaper no coarser than 80 grit and then media blast the rest. Then 180 sand the entire car, clean with wax and grease remover and apply acid etch primer. Don't use epoxy primer on bare metal no matter what the paint companies tell you.

[zerfetzen]

I'm no expert on either method, but remember an episode of Muscle Car on Spike TV where Lou talked a little about both methods and pointed out some flaws of acid dipping, including it won't always get all the dirt and mud among other things I don't remember.  I thought it was true that it can also eat away good metal, but someone on this board told me I was wrong about that, so may be, but I wouldn't want to risk it.  I'd media blast, and don't use sand from what I've read, use glass media.

[hotrod98]

Did you catch that episode of American Hotrod when the car came back from the dipper and when they removed the quarters, they were filled with sludge?
Nasty stuff. I don't want that crap in my cars.
The only downside of media blasting is having to remove it from the frame rails and inside the quarters. Fortunately, with the rotisserie, I can just turn the car over and blow the material out with a long blowgun. Takes a while though.
I also spray the insides of the frame rails with Rust-mort using a wand. I hate rust.

[69_500]

Wouldn't feel comfortable dipping any car until they come up with a way to dip the car in a cleaning solution to wash all of the acid they just dipped it in, off. The acid will definately take off all of the unwated material, but there is absolutely no way to be 100% sure that you got all of the acid washed off without being able to dip it in a cleaning solution. Don't understand why they can dip the entire car in a vat of acid, but have no vat of cleaning solution, and how they figure a pressure washing can get all of it out?

[zerfetzen]

I also spray the insides of the frame rails with Rust-mort using a wand. I hate rust.

Hi Hotrod98,
I knew there had to be a way to spray inside there.  How do you do that?  What's a wand?  Thanks.

[Dodge Don]

I know not everyone can or will do a high end resto however dipping is best in those high end top quality cases. I had mine dipped and it was great. Then you have to open up all the seams to get at the hidden rust that even dipping cannot get to. That's a complete job and the end results are a 100% rust free car.

It's not for everyone. Media blasting is the average way to go about it.

[J-440]

  Had my 68 dipped and it was definitly worth it.  1 bathvat for the actual dipping and the next vat was a sealing solution so the car would not rust from the inside out. They then blew the whole car dry with air, then let it sit for 24 hours to air dry, then added a solvent to protect the metal.  They recommend you cut 2 squares (3"X3") on the very ends just above the rocker panels, inside the door so when you put the anti-rust sealant back on the car, you spray this inside area real good.  Now the fun part is rustproofing the ENTIRE car (every nook and cranny) as well as put the seam sealer back on.  This will take a long time but I'm anal about my ride, so I didn't mind.  Just make sure everything is taken off the car before it is dipped.  The body, 2 doors, the decklid, plus trailer rental was around $1300.  My fenders and front valance were trashed and I sold my hood.  It was a neat process plus I got a cool buzz the entire weekend from the chemicals I used to put the rust inhibitor back on. Have a good one.
 

[skip68]

I would have mine blasted but that's just my 

[tkkruzer]

1300 ? now that a deal, I called a guy in mississippi and he wanted 3500 to do my 74 R/R, then an extra 1000 to dip it in E- primer afterwards ,that ended the dip idea for me. Ive seen the finished job and it looks great, but I can buy alot of sandpaper with that money and throw a sanding party with a BBQ and invite my friends ,and still have money left over. do mu own thing I say Tom

[NMike]

$1300 is a wicked deal. i was told ~$2100 for the first two dips, then another $2000 for the final dip and then a dip in the rust proofing coating.

[bull]

Either way the most important thing you can do is make sure the dipper or blaster knows what he is doing. Either one of them can FUBAR a car real quick if they don't.

[J-440]

   Man ya'll have some high prices!!  I live in Friendswood, TX which is about 15 minutes outside of Houston.  The dipping guy was in Conroe, North of Houston.  I guess OSHA is not as strict when you are outside the city limits, which is why I took the 1 hour drive out to Conroe.  Now, this price was about 6 years ago, they could have gone way up by then.  I purchased Eastwood's paint gun and wand set, borrowed my buddy's air compressor, and also bought the rust killer from Eastwood.  Great results but I will probably NOT do this again.  My car could have been on the road by now dammit!! 

[BlueSS454]

I paid $750 to have my 69 sandblasted.  I put the car up on a rotisserie, dropped it off, picked it up 8 hours later.  I did spend about an hour blowing all the sand out.  I got 99% of it, then shot some epoxy on it.
Personally, I'd never have a car dipped.  Too many risks involved.  If it's not properly cleaned and prepped afterwards, the remaining residue (and yes there will be some) can ruin a very expensive paint job in minutes.

[Rack]

   Man ya'll have some high prices!!  I live in Friendswood, TX which is about 15 minutes outside of Houston.  The dipping guy was in Conroe, North of Houston.  I guess OSHA is not as strict when you are outside the city limits, which is why I took the 1 hour drive out to Conroe.  Now, this price was about 6 years ago, they could have gone way up by then.  I purchased Eastwood's paint gun and wand set, borrowed my buddy's air compressor, and also bought the rust killer from Eastwood.  Great results but I will probably NOT do this again.  My car could have been on the road by now dammit!! 

There's a dipper in Texas?

Can you PM me a link to their site or a phone number?

I was almost set to take it to a place north of houston for media blasting. http://www.momusclecars.com/ That's their web address.

They charged $2200 for an inside/out top to bottom blasting. I guess that's not TOO bad. They have their own booth and they'd also primer it for me for another 500 (I think). Only problem is it's a 300+ mile drive for me (one way) and there's no guarantee they'd be able to get it done in one day.

I just realized that the site I mentioned is also located in Conroe. Maybe it's the same place? THey don't mention anything about dipping on their site.

[fatboy]

Anyone here know anything about dry ice blasting? They claim it turns into CO2 and leaves no moisture or blasting media when finished.

[Dans 68]

Dry ice is frozen CO2 (carbon dioxide). So theoretically the media sublimates to gaseous carbon dioxide. No residual acid or media. Interesting....

Dan

[BigBlockSam]

Don't use epoxy primer on bare metal no matter what the paint companies tell you.   

why? i've always used epoxy primer on bare metal.

[fatboy]

Anyone around Nashville? I found a place on the web called Stripmasters of Nashville that offers dry ice blasting. I am curious to know how much they charge to do a complete car with that stuff.

[hotrod98]

   Man ya'll have some high prices!!  I live in Friendswood, TX which is about 15 minutes outside of Houston.  The dipping guy was in Conroe, North of Houston.  I guess OSHA is not as strict when you are outside the city limits, which is why I took the 1 hour drive out to Conroe.  Now, this price was about 6 years ago, they could have gone way up by then.  I purchased Eastwood's paint gun and wand set, borrowed my buddy's air compressor, and also bought the rust killer from Eastwood.  Great results but I will probably NOT do this again.  My car could have been on the road by now dammit!! 

Conroe has always been a little lax on EPA restrictions. How else could they have allowed a creosote facility to run for so long. Several years ago, I lived in Spring,Texas and when the wind blew south you could smell that stuff in the air. Nasty and cancerous.
As for the earlier question about the wand, you mentioned Eastwood, but 3M makes one as well and any decent automotive paint store would carry them.

[J-440]

  Rack...the name of the place in Conroe is Houston Metal Stripping.  Try 281-367-4037 or 281-541-5234 and ask for R.L.  He's an old fart and when I brought in my car, he had a full house.  About 5 cars ahead of me, Stangs, Camaros even an AMC they were all there.  Now this was 6 years ago so maybe the #'s have changed. Good luck bro.

[moparracer]

Anyone in or near Arkansas we started a media blast business last year most cars cost less than 500 dollars. We use baking soda and a really fine abrasive called star blast. If you need more info e-mail (judywewer@yahoo.com) Have worked as a sand blaster for over 30 years. Also all equipment is on a trailor i can come to you.

[Rack]

  Rack...the name of the place in Conroe is Houston Metal Stripping.  Try 281-367-4037 or 281-541-5234 and ask for R.L.  He's an old fart and when I brought in my car, he had a full house.  About 5 cars ahead of me, Stangs, Camaros even an AMC they were all there.  Now this was 6 years ago so maybe the #'s have changed. Good luck bro.

Thank you Sir, I'll call them on monday.

[bull]

Don't use epoxy primer on bare metal no matter what the paint companies tell you.

What's the problem with epoxy primer? It should be fine if you don't leave it outside.

[gtx6970]

Having owed a car that has had panels dipped. I'll NEVER dip a panel , let alone a complete body.

Every time the car was exposed to moisture, whether it was caught in the rain or just sat in the garage and had condensation settle on it .Every seam in the car would bleed rust.
Never again.

We've had 3 cars now plastic media blasted and will do the next one this way as well.

[Dodge Don]

Having owed a car that has had panels dipped. I'll NEVER dip a panel , let alone a complete body.

Every time the car was exposed to moisture, whether it was caught in the rain or just sat in the garage and had condensation settle on it .Every seam in the car would bleed rust.
Never again.

We've had 3 cars now plastic media blasted and will do the next one this way as well.

I do not disagree with your findings but that is because the seams were not opened up to completely address all the rust. You can dip or blast....but if you don't address the seams you have not addressed the rust in there.

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Here is a thread that I started on Moparts about media blasting:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4027702&an=0&page=0#Post4027702

After reviewing the options and the pros & cons of each, I will have the C500 plastic media blasted because I feel it is the safest method overall... IMO

Here is a good discussion about media blasting options:

http://www.nstcenter.com/writeup.aspx?title=Abrasive%20Blasting&page=TechResourcesAbrasiveBlasting.html

XS

[tan top]

I never dip cars. It removes seam sealer in places that are impossible to get at to replace it. It also removes all of the flutter control substance that keeps the car from rattling.
Besides, that stuff ends up down in the quarters and any other recess that it flows into which can lead to rusting on cars that never had rust issues before.
I say go with the media blasting performed by a professional.
The ideal way is to sand all surfaces possible with sandpaper no coarser than 80 grit and then media blast the rest. Then 180 sand the entire car, clean with wax and grease remover and apply acid etch primer. Don't use epoxy primer on bare metal no matter what the paint companies tell you.

                     also  true eatch all bare metal   , yep  not keen on chemical dipping for that reason ,  would not have any of mine dipped.

[hotrod98]

Anyone in or near Arkansas we started a media blast business last year most cars cost less than 500 dollars. We use baking soda and a really fine abrasive called star blast. If you need more info e-mail (judywewer@yahoo.com) Have worked as a sand blaster for over 30 years. Also all equipment is on a trailor i can come to you.

I'm pretty good at guessing, but I bet you live near Scranton and are related to a guy named Bobby. 

Tell us more about star blast. I just might be interested in having you do some blasting for me.
I live in Greenwood and own a restoration business that specializes in musclecars.
I need to blast a 69 runner real soon.

[moparracer]

I did my 68 roadrunner with starblast. You will need to remove all the glass and chrome but the clean up after blasting is as easy as blowing with air. Starblast is a dupont material that is made up of several different chemicals. it will create heat but if you know how to use it it works fine.We have used it on several cars with good results and the cost is not bad compared to other abrasives.

[69hemi]

1. I never dip cars. It removes seam sealer in places that are impossible to get at to replace it. It also removes all of the flutter control substance that keeps the car from rattling.
2. Besides, that stuff ends up down in the quarters and any other recess that it flows into which can lead to rusting on cars that never had rust issues before.
3. Did you catch that episode of American Hotrod when the car came back from the dipper and when they removed the quarters, they were filled with sludge? Nasty stuff. I don't want that crap in my cars.
4. Wouldn't feel comfortable dipping any car until they come up with a way to dip the car in a cleaning solution to wash all of the acid they just dipped it in, off.
5. The acid will definitely take off all of the unwanted material, but there is absolutely no way to be 100% sure that you got all of the acid washed off without being able to dip it in a cleaning solution. Don't understand why they can dip the entire car in a vat of acid, but have no vat of cleaning solution, and how they figure a pressure washing can get all of it out?

I love that this topic pops up every 2-3 months and anyone who has read my posts on this knows I am a big dip fan so lets take a look at the above statements
1. If you look at most of the Mopar Bodies before stripping, the seam sealer can be pulled off with your fingers and under it is rust.  I have restored enough B Body Mopars to see the same rust patterns time and time again and rust and holes under the seam sealer is one of the best bets to find rust.  Why wouldn't you want that sealer removed so you can address the hidden rust then apply fresh sealer?
2.The whole upside to stripping instead of blasting is it does flow and remove rust that a media blaster cannot get to.  I am not sure how cleaning the inside of a quarter then sealing it promotes rust, but I am glad the dip flows into all the cracks and crevices where rust hides and gets rid of it.
3. That sludge was melted paint and gooey left over dip.  This was still there because they used a guy who did not clear his cars well after the dipping.  The most important part of the dipping process is the cleaning of the car after the dip.  This through cleaning stops the etching process, removes all the funk from the car that the dip has removed and preps the car for either a coat of primer or an e-coating dip.  A lot of dippers are lax in this area and it has earned the entire industry a bad name.  I had two choices of where to get my cars dipped and chose the one that did the best cleaning.  My 8 cars have come back dry and clean from the guy I use
4&5 Stripping is not acid dipping like in the old days.  That was a powerful acid used to chemically mill the thickness from the bodies of the cars to make them lighter. This is a solution that will not hurt the good metal in any way.  After my cars are dipped they get power washed for about three hours to remove any traces of the dip.  They then get a light coat of rust inhibitor (kinda looks like weak anti-freeze) then they come back to me.  I then do all the metal repair and ship them back t the dippers who gives them another bath to remove any surface rust that has built up.  At this point you need to decide if you want to go with the e-coat.  I highly recommend it as it completely seals the car but it is not a cheap solution.  If you do then the car get three more baths in different cleaning and prep solutions before the final dip in the e-coat.

I guess the short of it is for a frame up resto then the media blast is cheaper and easier.  For a full resto you already have the shell down to the bones so why not ensure that all the rust is gone and it is sealed forever?

Check out my website for more info and pictures http://www.69hemi.com/

[suntech]

Totally agree with 69hemi here!!
I is all down to the craftmanship of the dippers, to get a good result. Blasting is easy and less expansive, but it has its downsides, dipping has to be done right, and cleaned right, and draining is important, but in MHO the only way of getting a 100% rust free body.
Rolf

[Rack]

If I could afford it I'd get my car dipped and e-coated. I wouldn't dip it w/o e-coating. As it is, I haven't found anyone in Texas that can e-coat an entire car so I'll just be blasting. It'd cost me about an extra 2K to have it shipped somewhere to get dipped/e-coated.