Charger 500 / Daytona Rear Window Plug Removal - Any Experience?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

As some of you know, I am just starting the restoration of my Charger 500.  Even though the quarter panels look fairly decent compared to many that I have seen, the decision has been made to replace the quarter panels with the "exact" reproduction full quarter panels made by Classic Body Designs.

To replace the quarter panels requires removal of the rear window plug so carefully installed by Creative Industries when they did the conversion for Chrysler...

Anyone on this forum have experience in removing an original plug, or can put me in contact with someone that has done it?  I am going to go have a close look at the plug installation on Friday and take a lot of pictures.  From what I remember, the plug was installed by notching the drip tray on both sides of the trunk opening... then welding at the notches, spot welding all around the plug, and even spot welding to the original Dutchman panel.  The joints were all leaded I believe...

As I said earlier, I will try to get better pictures on Friday.  Any pictures of a plug being removed, or even a plug after removal would be of great help to me!

Here are the best pictures that I could find in the ones that I have already taken...

THANKS FOR ANY HELP!

Allen

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Four more pictures...

[arrow]

they are pretty easy to remove , melt the lead out and cut the spot welds

[UFO]

This is the only pic I have.
From a 500.

[Magnumcharger]

I know a person who has done exactly that.
Joey Steckler from Joey's place restorations.
You might have seen the threads I ran here on the restoration of a green Hemi 500 up here in Edmonton Alberta, Canada.
http://www.joeysplace.com/

email: joey@joeysplace.com

http://www.joeysplace.com/cgi-bin/newsletter/newsletter.cgi?db=default&sb=1&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=*

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Thanks for the input and picture guys!  I have been a bit concerned about damaging the plug during removal... guess I just needed a little   

I still plan to take a lot of pictures, and will probably know a lot more about the subject in a month or so...   

Allen

[Highbanked Hauler]

 Should you decide to lead the quarter to the roof seam and the plug also you will use 20 pounds of lead or more. quarter pound sticks of lead don't go very far. 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Should you decide to lead the quarter to the roof seam and the plug also you will use 20 pounds of lead or more. quarter pound sticks of lead don't go very far. 

Thanks!  That is just the sort of info that I need, I am trying to line up someone to do the lead work on-site at the body shop...

Allen

[69_500]

If it was up to me personally I'd stay away from leading it back in when reinstalling it. I'd go more for the welding it in, and grinding off the welds to make them smooth. Just my thoughts. I think that is what they did on Gene's car, and it is coming along pretty darn well.

[hotrod98]

On our resto work, we've started filling seams and welded areas with JB Industro Weld. It has to dry overnight before being sanded, but once it has set up, it will have shrank as much as it ever will. I welded the fender gill plates into the fenders on my wife's cuda and there has been absolutely no shrinkage at the welds since completing the car 3 years ago.
I'm helping a friend with his new paint store part time and we sell a lot of JB to local restoration shops.
JB has to be topcoated with a polyester glaze and sanded before applying primers.
It's a lot safer, quicker and cheaper than using lead.

[Magnumcharger]

http://jbweld.net/products/industro.php

http://www.builderdepot.com/seo/JBWELDCOMPANY_BM/206363_8280_J-B_INDUSTRO_WELD.ihtml

[arrow]

If it was up to me personally I'd stay away from leading it back in when reinstalling it. I'd go more for the welding it in, and grinding off the welds to make them smooth. Just my thoughts. I think that is what they did on Gene's car, and it is coming along pretty darn well.

Danny , thats real good advice - it wont take much filler when doing that . I usually use lead on most of my body work , but for health reasons , I and everyone else should stop .East Woods is selling new leadless body solder . I might try after I run out of lead .

[hotrod98]

We had a customer that insisted on using lead in his 55 chevy so we ordered the leadless body solder kit from Eastwood. Either we didn't know how to use it or it was junk. Would not melt very easy and didn't want to lay in real well. You might have better luck with it though.

[daytonalo]

I have always dug out all lead and weld seam solid , grind and short or long hair filler .

[Highbanked Hauler]

We had a customer that insisted on using lead in his 55 chevy so we ordered the leadless body solder kit from Eastwood. Either we didn't know how to use it or it was junk. Would not melt very easy and didn't want to lay in real well. You might have better luck with it though.

   When I did mine it was in 1983 and the box of lead i got had been sitting on somebody's shelf for years. I think it  was a mix of 30% tin 70% lead and you probably can't get it anymore if  they sent you  leadless body solder kit which I know nothing about. When you got the temperature right the lead was about the consistency of wheel bearing grease and works quite easily.  As someone said there products out now that do a quality job so why use costly  antiquated system.

[hemigeno]

I had talked with Vance Cummins about lead a while back.  He said that the lead used at the assembly plant (like on the quarter-to-roof seam) had a much higher melting point, and was "much better" than the grade used by Creative Industries.  Hamtramck's was harder to work with due to the higher heat involved, but it finished out nicer.  Creative essentially used the cheap stuff, which contributed to the poor finished look and even cracking of that area.

Figures   

Vance does have a big supply of both types of lead used, but he doesn't use it on an all-out restoration.

I'd echo what Danny & Larry have already said.  Weld it up solid and don't mess with the lead at all.  No worries, then.

[Magnumcharger]

Check this thread for some good example pictures of a welded-in plug:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,15508.0.html

[gtx6970]

weld it in.
Get a good welder/metal man and it will not need filler

[hotrod98]

weld it in.
Get a good welder/metal man and it will not need filler

You are kidding..right?
There is no way in hell that anyone could weld that relatively thin panel into place and not need at least some filler. I've been in the bodyshop business for 30 years and I've never met anyone that good. 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Thanks for all the suggestions and information.  I am very hesitant to fully weld the plug in.  While it would work out great initially, I am concerned that if the car ever took a hit hard enough to wipe out a quarter panel, the repair options would be more limited without the ability to easily remove the plug for replacement of the quarter panel.

I plan to drive this car quite a bit, and know several neat mopars that have gotten hit hard on the street in the last 10-15 years... Superbird, Hemi `Cuda, (2) 440-6 `Cudas, Etc.

I am still leaning to doing the re-leading, but will investigate the other more modern methods mentioned.  Doing it the "original" way is not the reason that I was considering leading the plug in, I want to do it the way that yields great results, but does not limit future repair options...

In fact, I hope to do the C500 a lot different than Creative Industries did!

More suggestions & information would be appreciated.  Specific names of modern filler systems would be helpful for my research.  If I can find a modern method known to be as good as leading, I will go with it.  Anyone one ever use Marine Tex? A Dallas area restoration shop swears by it, but they generally don't do very good work... soooooooo

Google it: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=marine+tex

I have a good friend that has worked at GM-Arlington for about 25 years, I will talk to him as well...

Thanks again,

Allen

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Check this thread for some good example pictures of a welded-in plug:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,15508.0.html

Great pictures... Thanks Robin!

Allen

[daytonalo]

NO FILLER AT ALL ? NOT IN THIS LIFETIME

[Highbanked Hauler]

  Wait till you get the lead melted out.The plug in mine had  SIX welds to hold it in place while the lead held it on the car and you should find filler with the most being on the roof at the plug seam.Been there, done that. I only wish I had the pictures to prove it.

[69_500]

Allen just for wondering, but why remove the plug anyways? Just curious. I would think you could leave it in the car, dig out the lead but leave it spot welded in. Then do more spot welding, or weld it up solid, or lead it back in. Just curious why you are taking it out?

[hotrod98]

I was thinking the same thing myself.