Pictures of my "easy to do" Charger from HLPAG

[AirborneSilva]

Well I was hoping to have some good news and pictures to post, but I do not    A guy I know (he is in my 4X4 club), owns a body shop and told me he would come over to show/help me how to get the rear frame rails (partial rails), on and get them the right length as well as squared up.  I called twice, left messages both times but never heard back from him. 

If anyone here lives in S. Arizona or knows of someone I can enlist to help out in this critical area I'd sure appreciate it.  I'm just so afraid that I will screw it up and have the car going down the road sideways.

On another note, I have finally decided to create a web page detailing my wonderful buying experience I had with hlpag.  When I get it up and going I will post a link.

[AutoRust]

The rear frame rails are not so much the most important issue in terms of squareness. What is critical is the alignment of the leaf springs. Are the front mounts  still ok? Under the back seat.  Are you replacing the rear spring mounts? Under the trunk? Those are the areas you need to concentrate on.

I am not suggesting the rear frames are NOT important, just saying the critical area is the springs. The frame IS important, as its what supports the rest of the car, and does need to be strong. The rear end will sit on the leaf springs, and that can also be adjusted to be square. Be patience with it, take your time and do a lot of corner to corner measuring. If you get agitated, walk away.

Remember, we do this for fun.

Dave

[AirborneSilva]

Hi Dave,

thanks for the reply, I will be replacing the rear spring mounts, the fronts look ok but I will know better when I can sand blast them.  Here is a visual for you so you will understand why I need to replace the rear spring mounts, and remember in the description that good ole hlpag put on the ebay add - "The trunk pan has already been cut out and ready for the new one to be installed!" - cut out my butt 

[AKcharger]

Hitler would be proud of HLPAG...the only thing missing from their lot is the gas chambers!

[AirborneSilva]

I think they have them underground, hopefully Han's right hand man Oscar (the lying dirt bag I dealt with), will be the first to test em out - I'll buy the gas 

[AutoRust]

Well, that sure looks like you have project on your hands there. Take your time with it, we have fixed ones in worst shape then that. All it takes is some time and money. Most of us have more time then money.
I would get the car up in the air at a comfortable working height, its tough to do this stuff when your on your back. Get it at least to a height you can sit on the ground and work in front of yourself.
Thinks Safety. Make sure you support it with good jack stands, not old concrete blocks or tree stumps.
The cut away the rust on the end of the frame under the trunk edge, up towards the shock crossmember. Trim it square. Square is always neater and easier to go back to.
Then fit your replacements in place. Take your time, dont weld anything solid. Support the frame rails with stands or some other fashion to hold them in place. Make sure you have a good crossmember in the back, under the tailight panel. tack weld that in place, again dont weld it solid until you have measured it up several times. Get it right. If it aggravates you, walk away and try again tommorrow. Once the rails are in a good place, check the measurements again. Use the measurements I gave you. Check it one more time, then weld them in. Be patient, this might take you a while, but you need it right, its the foundation.
Go to my web site, look at the project picture we do, look at the methodical way we approach it. I understand we are a company that does this all the time, and have developed techniques and skills that save us countless hours. Look at the different ways we do the repairs. We are not building the space shuttle here, just trying to save a Mopar.
Remember, have fun. If its not fun, walk away and try again later. Sooner or later you will make progress and then you have some motivation, some inspiration. Next thing you know Ole Chip Fooose will be calling.....

Dave

[AirborneSilva]

Hi Dave,

Thank you for all the info, I'm trying to get an e-mail together with some quesitons and pictures, or maybe I should put it in the form of a post so if someone else runs into this they will have some answers.  I will post as soon as I can.

Thanks,
Tony

[moparguy01]

Measure the rails and cut the old out, set in the trunk pans if possible, and then use self tapping screws to hold the rails into place.
then mock up the leaf springs and make sure they get straight, after that make your marks and weld it up. then remove it all and do the front perch. trust me, you want that in its exact same spot. not long ago we replaced the entire ass end of a 69 RR that looked real close. so if you need any pointers send me a pm and i'll help if I can.

[AirborneSilva]

Dave and Moparguy01 (and anyone else whom cares to jump in here with words of wisdom),

Thank you very much for your help to this point, now here are some questions that I have (and I'm sure there will be more). 

First, Moparguy, I am doing partial rails (money right now is VERY tight but I hope that changes by mid summer - if all goes right!), anyway I wish I could have done full rails but this is what I have.  After looking at the existing rails, what's left of them, I think I have to cut forward of the shock crossmember that the shocks connect to.  here is a picture that will explain way.  I also have another shock crossmember that is in better shape that I will put on once I get the rails installed.



The next two pictures shows where I think I should cut and join them, let me know what you think, and I'm sorry if reading the lettering is hard – it looked better before I uploaded the pictures.





I am confused on my measure points so Dave will have to answer this one since I can't upload an adobe file.  Here's a couple of pictures where I think the points are from looking at the file you sent Dave.





Finally, the diagonal measurement reads 71.95 but since my measuring tape does not have decimals on it I converted it to a fraction and got 71 19/20.  My tape does not have, nor do I know of one that does have 19/20 so would 15/16 be ok?

I am going to put a sleeve where I join the two rails together and have some 2X3 that is pretty heavy duty stuff but it's only 6" long, will this length be good enough or should I try to put a sleeve in there as long as I can? 

I unfortunately do not have any trunk pans or the rear crossmember but I did buy some ¾" square tubing to help me tack things in place while I quadruple check my measurements, then check them again before I make my final welds.  Does that make sense? 

Thank you for your time and energy.  I hope your brain doesn't hurt half as much as mine thinking about this!!  I hope all this makes sense, it's getting past my bed time 

[hemi-hampton]

I use part of the old frame as a sleeve. Part of the old frame should fit inside the new frame. Cut 1 slit into each bottom corner of old frame. This will let old frame move into new frame. Use about 6'' of old frame inside new frame. Also, I did not hear anybody else mention this but get a Carpenters level, one about 4' long. Lay this ontop of roof of car & make car Level. Now, Once you got frame rails in place but just before you weld lay this level across the top of both frame rails at same time & make sure level before you weld. Once level weld. Weld a continuous bead on inside of frame to old frame. I cut the very top edge/lip off of old frame & weld along this cutoff of old frame to new, do this for the entire 6'' of old frame inside the new frame. This will make it strong. Thats the short version. Completed version may take a book. Hope this Helps? LEON.

[AirborneSilva]

Thank you Leon, good tips  I am going to assume that I should level the car side to side. 

[AirborneSilva]

Here is a link to the web page I'm building to let the world know how the good ole boys at hlpag do business, there's not much to it right now but let me know what you think.  I am wanting to keep it on the time line as things happend and I only want to print the truth so they have no way of coming back on me.  As I make changes and add pages I will update and when I'm done please let every car person, especially MOPAR folks, know about the page.  I hope that I can put a dent in their business and save someone from what they did to me.

http://tonysilvajr.com/Charger.aspx

[moparguy01]

I use part of the old frame as a sleeve. Part of the old frame should fit inside the new frame. Cut 1 slit into each bottom corner of old frame. This will let old frame move into new frame. Use about 6'' of old frame inside new frame. Also, I did not hear anybody else mention this but get a Carpenters level, one about 4' long. Lay this ontop of roof of car & make car Level. Now, Once you got frame rails in place but just before you weld lay this level across the top of both frame rails at same time & make sure level before you weld. Once level weld. Weld a continuous bead on inside of frame to old frame. I cut the very top edge/lip off of old frame & weld along this cutoff of old frame to new, do this for the entire 6'' of old frame inside the new frame. This will make it strong. Thats the short version. Completed version may take a book. Hope this Helps? LEON.

I agree with pretty much everything Leon said. I like to have the trunk floor in place, because its easy to locate that because of the braces in the back. then i hold the trunk floor in with self tapping screws, then push the rails in. but like leon said, make cuts along the old rail, then hammer it up so its tight against the new rail section before you weld. and then once the rail is tacked into place, remove the trunk floor and weld the rails inside.

[hemi-hampton]

I like how in the Auction they convienantly forget to open the trunk lid & snap a shot of that easy to repair trunk. Plus the perfect use of dark shadows to hid whats really behind that rear tailight panal, all strategically obscured by well placed dark shadowing. My as well be done like a Magician with Smoke & Mirrors. LEON.

[AirborneSilva]

Thank you guys, things are becoming a more and more clear.  I am still not clear on my measuring points.  Russ I sent you the file so could you clear that up for me?  Also, I will not be able to have the trunk floor in place as there is no trunk floor and I can't buy one right now.  We are WAITING for a phone call that is going to take us to the east coast but the government (and one of it's inept employees), is doing it's usual take their time.  I need to have this car ready to roll before then though.

Leon, yeah the wife looked at the Charger the other day and noticed the black peeling, she could see the orange coming through and asked why in the world someone would cover up that orange with flat black, I had to inform her that they were trying to (and succeding in), hiding things they didn't want me to see.  Between the flat black paint and low light in the pictures they did a great job of making it appear as though the rust damage was minimal.

[AirborneSilva]

I've done some work on page 2 of my web page letting the world know how my deal went down with good ole hlpag.  here is the address.

http://tonysilvajr.com/Charger2.aspx

[terrible one]

Airborne,

Good job on the site. And I just thought I would tell you how great I think it is that you're diving headfirst into this project. I probably would have sat in a corner and wept if this had happened to me, but it's obvious you aren't going to let anything stop you from having the car you've always wanted. Good luck man. I wish I had some parts or something to send to you.

[AirborneSilva]

terrible,

Thank you, I have another page or two to make, then do a little fine tunning.  Sometimes I do feel like sitting in a corner and weeping, I get so frustrated and depressed then I just have to walk away.  I have to learn to focus on one thing at a time, when I can do that I am ok.  I hope that with my web page and this thread (which some have told me if you google HLPAG this thread comes up before their web page, I think that is great and is a good reason to keep this thread alive  ), we can put a big dent in their business and steer an unsuspecting person away from them crooks. 

Thank you again and thanks for the well wishes.

[Charger74]

Hey Airborne, so are you in Hereford AZ?  That's kind of funny.  I used to live in Sorry Vista, oops, Sierra Vista.  Hey not sure who you've been talking to down that way.  But I may have some friends who might be able to help somewhat.  Let me know, I will see if I can get hold of them....  You can pm me with their names.  I knew several Mopar people there.

[AirborneSilva]

Charger74,

Yep, I certainly do live in Sorry Vista  , hopefully for not too much longer though.  I could use all the hlep I can get, I'm so afraid of getting these rails wrong so if anyone of your buddies knows what they are doing I sure would appreciate the help.

[Charger74]

I will see if I can get hold of anyone.  But I would check, there is a body shop there called Kendall/Brooks I think.  At least used to be, call them and see if Clinard still works there.  If so, tell them Brent Leistner asked him to call you.   

Also, at Ideal cars there on 92, go to the repair bays.  Ask if Jeff Bettancourt is still working there.  He has/had a pretty nice 68 from about high school on.  Other than that, I know of someone in Benson, but not to sure how helpful he would be.

Also check and see when/ if there is going to be a Sonic cruise nite this year.  GO to it and talk to anybody.   Maybe ask around for Trent Driver.  Again, drop my name if you find him.  Right now, that is about all I can suggest.  I will try to get hold of someone and let you know...

[AirborneSilva]

Thank you Brent, I will see if I can look them up next week...

Thanks again,
Tony

[AirborneSilva]

Well I have the rear rails mocked up but the measurements that Dave from Auto Rust gave me do not match what I have, I am not 100% sure that I am measuring from the same points that are in the diagram though.  below are pictures of my points of measurement;

This is my rear point of measurement.


This is my front point of measurement.


The measurements are 76 1/8th" diagonal and between the rails is 34", I measure the between the rails in two places, one about where the crossmember for the shocks goes and towards the back of the rails.

[Harlow]

I haven't been following the thread, but it looks like your making good progress. 

[AirborneSilva]

Thank you Harlow,  I don't feel comfortable in welding the rails up quite yet though.  The shackle on the left side hangs pretty much straight down but the one on the right hands down at an angle, even though the diaganol measurements are the same.  Also when you look at what's left of the rear crossmember that's attached to the tail panel it looks like the back of the rails line up, but again when I look at the shackels I get a bit nervous to start welding.