new carb and intake manifold for 440

[charger2fast4u]

i have a 68 charger with a 440 i want to upgrade my stock intake manifold and carb. i am thinking of getting this carb what do you's think http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_11804_-1 what HP range is this 750cfm good for? i don't want to buy it and have to buy a bigger one down the road. are there any better carbs you's might like better? i am going to replace my intake manifold while i'm at what kind would you's suggest for the best performance?

[ronv]

It depends on what you are going to do with the car. If you are building it for street, I think that carb with a performer manifold would be fine. If you are planning to go to the strip with it, I like the Mighty Demon 850 with the Mopar M1 intake. Here's the thing, the M1 and carb and air cleaner may not fit under the hood unless you use a real thin air cleaner. 

Have fun!!!

[firefighter3931]

That carb will Work fine on a mild 440. I would be looking for a dual plane intake if you want to keep the stock look. The old Edelbrock CH4B is excellent....look on e-bay for it. Another option is the Wiend "stealth" dual plane. 


Ron

[charger2fast4u]

i will be using it as my daily driver i will take it to the drag strip here and there also. the stock look doesn't matter to me. im looking for what will give me the most power. my plans for my engine are full 3'' TTI exhaust with x pipe 1 7/8'' headers, cam, cylinder heads, intake, and eventually a stroker kit just to give you's a better idea of what i'm going for. i was thinking of getting the edelbrock performer intake manifold http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler_bb_perf.shtml because it makes the power from idle to 5,500rpm. does mopar performance or weiand manifolds give you any more HP then edelbrock. for the carb i am looking for a easy to tune carb. should i get a regular secondary carb or a vacuum secondary one. from all the information i read alot of people go with holley or demon carbs. with what i'm doing to my engine would i be good with a 750 or a 850cfm? let me know what your opinions are i'd like to hear them thanks for the help so far.

[firefighter3931]

i will be using it as my daily driver i will take it to the drag strip here and there also. the stock look doesn't matter to me. im looking for what will give me the most power. my plans for my engine are full 3'' TTI exhaust with x pipe 1 7/8'' headers, cam, cylinder heads, intake, and eventually a stroker kit just to give you's a better idea of what i'm going for. i was thinking of getting the edelbrock performer intake manifold http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler_bb_perf.shtml because it makes the power from idle to 5,500rpm. does mopar performance or weiand manifolds give you any more HP then edelbrock. for the carb i am looking for a easy to tune carb. should i get a regular secondary carb or a vacuum secondary one. from all the information i read alot of people go with holley or demon carbs. with what i'm doing to my engine would i be good with a 750 or a 850cfm? let me know what your opinions are i'd like to hear them thanks for the help so far.

Ok, that is a little extra needed information....

So, a couple of questions :

(1) Are you swapping the heads and cam right now ?
(2) What type of transmission in your car ?
(3) What is your axle ratio and tire diameter


If you're planning a stroker in the future, the Holley Street Dominator Intake manifold is tough to beat. PN 300-14
As for the carb ; something that is just right on a 440 might be a little small on a stroker. You don't want to overcarb or it will be a tuning nightmare. On a 440 the Proform 750 double pumper is an excellent choice....on a 500ci stroker you should step it up to a 950 double pumper, allthough it will still run fine with the smaller carb....but you will be leaving some power on the table. 



Ron

[charger2fast4u]

no i won't be swaping the heads and cam now but within the next year i will be.  i have a 727 auto trans in my car. is this the proform carb you are talking about? http://www.proformparts.com/mistore/productdisplay.php?sku=1000768&hdwt=31101&loc=101&dealer=no&company_id=100719

[firefighter3931]

no i won't be swaping the heads and cam now but within the next year i will be.  i have a 727 auto trans in my car. is this the proform carb you are talking about? http://www.proformparts.com/mistore/productdisplay.php?sku=1000768&hdwt=31101&loc=101&dealer=no&company_id=100719

Yep 


Ron

[charger2fast4u]

last couple questions i need answered. i narrowed down my choices for the manifold between mopar performance dual plane intake DCC-5153525, Holley street dominator HLY-300-14, and edelbrock performer intake edl-2191. are they all about the same HP gains. and the proform race 750cfm carb without the choke would i be able to start my engine without to much hassle in 30* weather or would it not even start

[Ghoste]

It'll start with some hassle and will need to be nursed to running status before you can go anywhere.  As for the manifold, my personal choice of those three would be the street dominator.

[charger2fast4u]

does anyone know what fuel line i would need for the proform 750cfm street carb i'm looking for one like this http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplayPopup?storeId=10001&partNumber=510-0-4779SK1++++++++++++&langId=-1&showValue=1

[firefighter3931]

Any dual feed line that fits a holley double pumper carb will work with a proform double pumper. There are lots of different options available...everything from a stock looking line from Fabulous Creations to a braided setup like the one you posted 


If you're thinking stroker in the future and only want to buy 1 manifold i would go with the Street Dominator intake.



Ron

[charger2fast4u]

finishing up my list of parts and have a question i am replacing my fuel line from tank to carb will -6 AN fuel line flow enough fuel for a 500 plus stroker or will i need bigger fuel line?

[firefighter3931]

finishing up my list of parts and have a question i am replacing my fuel line from tank to carb will -6 AN fuel line flow enough fuel for a 500 plus stroker or will i need bigger fuel line?

Are you planning to run an electric fuel pump ? I prefer to run steel hard lines on street cars with a HV mechanical fuel pump...keep it simple ! 

For an engine like that (500 stroker) i would be looking at a 3/8in steel line or an 8an if going braided steel. 



Ron

[charger2fast4u]

for now i will be running a edelbrock mech fuel pump but i will be changing to a electric pump when i get closer to the stroker kit. i have a 3/8 fuel sending unit for the tank. can anyone tell me what size -6 AN and 8 AN braided steel line equals in fraction form?

[caddman]

for now i will be running a edelbrock mech fuel pump but i will be changing to a electric pump when i get closer to the stroker kit. i have a 3/8 fuel sending unit for the tank. can anyone tell me what size -6 AN and 8 AN braided steel line equals in fraction form?

6 AN line is  0.343 in. just under 3/8 (0.375).  8 AN is 0.438 in.  Good luck!

caddman

[charger2fast4u]

what's a good choice for intake manifold gaskets and bolts? i was leaning towards mr gasket and ARP bolts. and are these fuel filters good to use? i am thinking of getting these one right at gas tank and other after fuel pump. https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productitem_10001_10002_745102_-1_60892
https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productitem_10001_10002_749458_-1_342282

[firefighter3931]

what's a good choice for intake manifold gaskets and bolts? i was leaning towards mr gasket and ARP bolts. and are these fuel filters good to use? i am thinking of getting these one right at gas tank and other after fuel pump. https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productitem_10001_10002_745102_-1_60892
https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productitem_10001_10002_749458_-1_342282

ARP is fine for the manifold bolts and i like the felpro 1215 intake gasket set for 440 engines. As for the fuel filter....the large Fram cannister style has served me well and the filter is cheap to replace. It's rated at 90 gph which is more than enough to feed 700hp. 


Ron

[charger2fast4u]

are the other 2 filters alright to use or won't they flow enough and starve my engine?

[firefighter3931]

are the other 2 filters alright to use or won't they flow enough and starve my engine?

Not sure about those filters but they look small to me and only filter down to 35-40 microns. The fram hpg1 filters down to 10 microns and has a much larger volume. 


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FRM%2DHPG1&N=700+4294925239+4294839051+4294852562+115&autoview=sku




Ron

[charger2fast4u]

do you got any pics of where you mounted your's? are you only running one filter? i was going to run 2 filters on my fuel system one after the tank and one after the fuel pump. since you will be able to see the one after the pump i wanted to get one that doesnt really stick out like the fram one would i'll get the fram for after the tank

[Lifsgrt]

 I have both the Holley Street Dominator and the Edelbrock Performer 440 manifold.  Every performance test I've seen proves the Edelbrock Performer makes better power than the Street Dominator, although the Street Dominator is one of the best choices otherwise.  Be careful, the Edelbrock Performer 440 is a bit taller and may cause you hood clearance problems.  I keep the Street Dominator on the shelf.  One of the magazines did a test in the last couple of years of all the manifolds listed here.  The Edelbrock Performer had the widest torque curve and made almost the best horsepower of all listed, and was named the best all around street manifold, best I remember.

[Ghoste]

You mean the Performer RPM don't you?

[charger2fast4u]

i like the performer manifold because it's supposed to make power right off of idle  rather then the RPM does anyone know what kind of air filter i will need to fit under my hood with a edelbrock performer intake and a proform 750 carb

[Ghoste]

I don't know what the dyno shootouts say about the regular Performer but I wasn't too crazy about mine in real world driving.  The stock iron one seemed to be better and the street dominator I've been running lately is head and shoulders above it.  That's only my opinion though. 
I ran an open element air cleaner with a 3 inch tall filter over my Performer with no issues.  I may have had a drop base on there but I really can't recall now.

[firefighter3931]

  The "performer" is more of a towing/recreational vehicle manifold. The Performer RPM is an excellent street/strip piece. 



Ron

[charger2fast4u]

hmm  i hate these debates i was thinking the Performer because how often does a 440 usually go over 5,500 RPM? is there really that much of a difference between the Performer and Performer RPM? how much HP do you need for a 3/8'' fuel sending unit to start becoming restrictive

[SeattleCharger]

hmm  i hate these debates i was thinking the Performer because how often does a 440 usually go over 5,500 RPM? is there really that much of a difference between the Performer and Performer RPM? how much HP do you need for a 3/8'' fuel sending unit to start becoming restrictive

performer is closer to stock, rpm is more of a highrise, just look at pics on edelbrock site,

edit:  just looked at pics on eddy site, they are from above view, so don't really show the difference, I have a pic somewhere, hold on

[SeattleCharger]

these are from someone on the site's engine, performer rpm, it has been painted here to match engine, but a regular performer is probably half as tall,  or less, and is basically flat looking compared to the rpm

[SeattleCharger]

Hey, I made these about a year ago for an intake thread when I was deciding on one,  sorry the regular performer isn't in here, but ya, it is more for maybe a truck or rv I guess, about height of stock intake
   I went with the CH4B, I have a hp and torque comparison saved somewhere that firefighter posted,

[SeattleCharger]

ok, here is a test from firefighter in a cam thread, he wrote:

   "I found the article : it appeared in the july 2002 issue of Mopar Muscle and is titled "Induction Extraveganza" (p.36)

The article is several pages long and they don't have a table with the results listed all together so i'll list them below.

(1) factory 70-71 iron manifold: 575hp@6200/581tq@4000
(2) Edelbrock CH4B : 607hp@6400/573tq@4000
(3) Wiend action plus : 597hp@6300/564tq@4000
(4) Edelbrock Performer RPM : 610hp@6200/590tq@4000
(5) Holley Street Dominator : 636hp@6200/598tq@5000
(6) Edelbrock Torker (original) : 605hp@5500/608tq@4700
(7) Edelbrock Torker 2 (new style) : 627hp@6300/593tq@4900
( Edelbrock TM7 ( old Tarantula series) : 618hp@6200/602tq@4900
(9) Edelbrock Victor : 637hp@6400/593tq@4700
(10) Mopar M1 (single plane) : 629hp@6100/589tq@4900
(11) Wiend team G (single plane) : 597hp@6300/569tq@4900


As you can see from these results ; the single plane manifolds all pushed the tq peak up into the 5000 rpm range while the dual planes were at peak tq by 4000 rpm. The Holley Street Dominator had the best average HP in the 4000-6600 range (572hp) and the best average TQ in the 4000-6600 range (571tq). This motor build is more of a race type combo and wouldn't represent what the average street guy would use. The dual plane is definately the way to go for a mild street application where most of the engine will spend it's time in the 2500-4500 rpm range. These results correlate with the dyno testing we did on my 446....The RPM dual plane made better TQ below 3500 rpm but fell off around 5800 where the single planes kept making more power. That's why it's so important to match all the components in order to achieve the optimum results.   In my case the RPM made 30hp less than the Street Dominator at peak hp.

The factory 70-71 manifold looks pretty descent as does the CH4B which made over 600hp on the test mule. That's pretty impressive for a stock height dual plane intake manifold, inmo.


Ron"

[Ghoste]

All I can say is that on the engine I have now as it sits in the car based on a few seasons driving with each of a stock intake, a Performer (non RPM), and a Street Dominator that the Holley intake is my favorite of the three.  There was virtually no real world performane benefit from the Performer over the stock intake and the 1/4 mile times actually went down on average over the two years I used it.  The Street Dominator has seen better times at the track while giving up almost nothing on the street.  There may be a slight give in low end torque but it affects driveability in no real way.  What I mean by that is that any torque loss is not sufficient to make normal driving a problem in any sense of the word.  As for torque under WOT driving, I don't do that in town so whatever torque I give up here isn't missed or needed as the conditions I use that under find the advantages of the single plane to soon negate the low end issue.  If all I did was stock street driving, I think I would leave the stock intake on.  If all I did was strip, I would look at a different single palne than the Holley but it would most likely be a single plane.  Is the Performer RPM an ideal street/strip?  Probably, but I have never run the RPM version so I can't really say.  I can say that I would never own the regular Performer again.
Is that as confusing as I think it is?

[Lifsgrt]

Hey guys, my bad...you'd think I could remember, I have the Performer RPM.  I've been away a while with the Army and couldn't go look to be sure.  My car runs quite well with this manifold!

[charger2fast4u]

anyone else have or had experience with the performer RPM  would like to get more thoughts on this

[Ghoste]

I think if you are talking about the RPM, you are safe to pull the trigger.  It's versatile enough to be useful on a more or less stock 440 and right on through with a well modified one.

[charger2fast4u]

if i got the street dominator manifold what would i do with the EGR and choke provisions  on the manifold

[firefighter3931]

if i got the street dominator manifold what would i do with the EGR and choke provisions  on the manifold

The choke well you just leave empty and the EGR ports just get plugged off. 



Ron

[charger2fast4u]

thanks Ron do you know what kind of air filter you would need to clear the hood with an edelbrock RPM manifold?

[Lifsgrt]

There is a non-EGR version of the Performer RPM.  I just saw a PHR magazine on the shelf today with engine combos...and a Mopar manifold shootout on a fairly stout 383 B-block.  They test 13 or so manifolds, and the Performer RPM once again is called "the best street - strip manifold".  It made 505 hp and upper 400s ft. lbs. of torque on this setup.  As for the air cleaner, on my 440 in my 69 Charger I use an old-school Moroso drop-base 14" diameter air cleaner with a 3" tall element.  It clears the hood by about 1/2", so it's an option, but covers the carb.  The stock open base air cleaner is much too tall, and I'd think a shorter element would be much too restrictive.  For what it's worth.  Jerry

[firefighter3931]

thanks Ron do you know what kind of air filter you would need to clear the hood with an edelbrock RPM manifold?

K&N makes a 14x3 in assembly with a 1.25in drop base and it also has the flo-thru top. 

This setup will clear a 2nd gen hood....no problemo ! 



Ron

[charger2fast4u]

when you install a intake manifold do you's suggest to just use new gaskets or do you suggest to put on a gasket maker silcone along with the gasket like some people do? if so what kind do you's prefer to use?

[firefighter3931]

when you install a intake manifold do you's suggest to just use new gaskets or do you suggest to put on a gasket maker silcone along with the gasket like some people do? if so what kind do you's prefer to use?

I use ultra copper high heat silicone around the ports on both sides for the bathtub gasket and also on the end rails....works for me. 



Ron