512 bottom end questions

[chargerbr549]

I am in the process of building the 512 stroker from 440 Source as is a friend of mine using the 440 block.

1st question is what type of main bearing do I want to run half groove, 3/4 groove or full groove? It will basically be a street motor that might see the strip on a rare ocasion and probably won't see much over 5500 to 6000 rpm. When I did my 440 years ago the thing to do was put a 1/2 pickup tube in and run fully grooved main bearings and a high volume oil pump of which I have never had a problem, when I bought the kit from Brandon he said I should be fine with my 3/8 pick-up tube but I forgot to ask him about the bearings.

2nd question is on my friends 512 he's planning on running the stock windage tray and hemi pan and it looks like it should clear the crank no problem, is it ok to run the stock windage tray or should a "stroker windage tray" be used with a little more clearance around the crank?

The blocks are 66 and 67 production and of course they will need the clearanced bearings.

Kevin

[Hot_Rodder]

Wish I could answer your questions, but I do look forward to the answers. As for the one that I'm building, I, a little while back, bought a Milodon street/strip 7qt oil pan, 1/2" pick up tube, and a new windage tray, I guess it's a factory style. Seems like every Mopar big block that I open up, doesn't have one..... But a question I had as far as bottom end, was about the main caps, are you planning on going with the factory main caps? Or are you gonna go to an aluminum cap? Bolts, or studs?

[chargerbr549]

The horsepower level and rpms that I am planning won't require anything fancy, I am running the stock caps with ARP main studs and align honed, if you do a search on Challenger340 and fighter3931 they have some excellent information on what caps, bolts or studs and also stud girdles to use at at what horsepower levels.

Kevin

[Hot_Rodder]

Since I'm almost done eating, some time tomorrow I'll have to do a search on those threads. I thought I had read somewhere that either at or above 500 (may have been 700) horse power, that aluminum caps should be used. I am planning on going to ARP main studs anyway. Also, if you are using forced induction, and NOX also plays a factor, but I'm not planning on doing either one, so...

[firefighter3931]

Kevin, i would use the bearings that Brandon sells with the crank. I've read a few threads elsewhere where the champfer on his stuff can create issues with "other" brands....and his are matched to the crank. I haven't personally assembled one of his stroker kits but i have heard good things. I would think that a full groove wouldn't be required on that type of build....this sounds like a low rpm cruiser motor...correct ?

I like the main/rod bearing clearance at .0025 but then again i run my stuff hard. I Purchased the MP stroker windage tray for mine and it fits the hemi repro pan fine....no interferance. This is the same tray/pan that comes on the 528 hemi crate motors. The only thing i don't like about it is the limited drainback but that's easily fixed. 

I'll be building a stroker sometime in the future and i've been gathering parts. The Hemi pan/windage tray look like a good match from what i can see. I have heard about some fitment issues with the 440 source stroker tray and other oilpans. His pan and tray are supposed to work well together....but there are clearance issues with other brands of oilpans. One member posted some pics here of the 440 source tray and i believe a Mancini oilpan and it was a no-go.



Ron

[chargerbr549]

I had purchased the stroker windage tray from 440 source and it hits the raised part of the rear baffle on my new Hemi pan but I can modify pretty easly but I might just sell it and go the MP one and not have to do any modifying.

A low rpm street cruiser motor is pretty much what I am wanting right now in my 69 R/T SE Charger, the 440 I built for it about 20 years ago has the 284/484 mopar cam  and the 906 heads have had many hours of die grinder service to relieve congestion with oversize manley valves, street dominator intake and hooker competion hedders. I want to get away from the poor idle and loose converter because it has power windows and A/C that works and I had to eliminate the brake booster because of lack of vacuum and I may put that back on with my 512 and see if I like it with my updated big disc brakes. I am going to set-up the engine for zero deck and the .051 head gasket to kill some of the compression with my factory heads so I should be around 9.5 to compression and a custom ground cam and then if money permits and I want more power later on I am probably going to go with the 440 source aluminum heads. The  convertor I want with a stall speed somewhere around 2500 rpm and probably keep my 3.91 gears unless I experience excessive wheel spin then maybe try my old trusty 3.23's or 3.55's.

[chargerbr549]

Heres a link on some bottom end limits with caps and studs.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,29968.0.html

[firefighter3931]

I had purchased the stroker windage tray from 440 source and it hits the raised part of the rear baffle on my new Hemi pan but I can modify pretty easly but I might just sell it and go the MP one and not have to do any modifying.

A low rpm street cruiser motor is pretty much what I am wanting right now in my 69 R/T SE Charger, the 440 I built for it about 20 years ago has the 284/484 mopar cam  and the 906 heads have had many hours of die grinder service to relieve congestion with oversize manley valves, street dominator intake and hooker competion hedders. I want to get away from the poor idle and loose converter because it has power windows and A/C that works and I had to eliminate the brake booster because of lack of vacuum and I may put that back on with my 512 and see if I like it with my updated big disc brakes. I am going to set-up the engine for zero deck and the .051 head gasket to kill some of the compression with my factory heads so I should be around 9.5 to compression and a custom ground cam and then if money permits and I want more power later on I am probably going to go with the 440 source aluminum heads. The  convertor I want with a stall speed somewhere around 2500 rpm and probably keep my 3.91 gears unless I experience excessive wheel spin then maybe try my old trusty 3.23's or 3.55's.

That sounds like a nice build....as you know the stroker will make tons of low end grunt. A 3.55 gear should work fine as long as the cam profile is kept reasonable. It's pretty hard to overcam a 512.  Something in the 245-250* @.050 on a 112* lsa should be pretty mellow and make lots of manifold vacuum for A/C & PB.


Ron

[chargerbr549]

Hey Ron thanks for the info its greatly appreciated.

Kevin

[firefighter3931]

You're welcome Kevin. 

Keep us up to speed on your build ! 


Ron

[chargerbr549]

Hey Ron I was looking on the Engle cam website since you recommend them very highly for hydralic flat tappet cams and the only thing they show are just the cams, I was wondering if they sell lifters, springs and retainers also, and where is the best place to purchase them?

Another option I was thinking about is a custom grind from comp cams since our machine shop is a dealer for them and we have alot of their valvetrain accessories in stock, would you recommend this route?

Kevin

[firefighter3931]

Hi Kevin,

Yes Engle carries the lifters, springs etc....

Comp also has some very nice lobes in their master lobe library if you decide to go the custom route. My 446 has a custom Comp solid flat tappet cam that is ground on an .875 lifter profile....fairly agressive but not a spring killer.  I'm using the stock e-head springs and it pulled great to 6500 on the dyno with no hint of valve float. 

Are you wanting a hydraulic or solid cam ? This is for your 512 ?



Ron

[chargerbr549]

Yes it's for my 512 and I was looking at a hydraulic flat tappet cam.

Kevin

[firefighter3931]

Based on your earlier performance goals here's a custom stick that would work very nicely in that application. These are the XE Chrysler high lift lobes from the master library. This is not an "off the shelf" stick. 

intake lobe # 5960/ exhaust lobe # 5980 on a 112* lsa

289/301 advertised
245/251@.050
163/166@.200
.534/.540 lift (1.5)
112* lsa


Of course you would need to have your guides trimmed down if running a stock head (retainer to guide clearance). The stock springs that come on an Eddy RPM head are fine with this cam. You would also need an adjustable valvetrain....the ductile iron rockers would be more than sufficient. 


Anyway....just something to consider. 



Ron