Re: just contemplating my build... [UPDATED: 4/2/08] - ALL DYNO #s

[joflaig]

Just a quick update, the engine is at a 2nd shop sitting on the stand for dyno. The builder does not have a dyno and it is just as well because the shop where it's at is probably the most respected in the region (though they specialize in Chevy) and I want to get some independent validation.

Anyway, they said the motor sounded great and the timing was right, but after running it for a bit to warm it up the pipes started turning red. They suspect it's running lean. The dyno pull set for today was called off. They are going to mess with the carb tonight and hopefully tomorrow or Friday do the pulls. They also installed the 1" carb spacer.

The guy at the shop who built the motor wanted to come over to this place during the dyno for final dial-in, but this guy is hated by a lot of other builders (among others) and in the end I could not get him "invited". I can only assume this is why the carb might have been running lean. But I am trying to fugre out when he broke in the motor if it's possible that he could have done any damage. The guy at the dyno shop checked the tempature on all the exhaust tubes and they were the same, which he said was a good sign...something with the valves. Of course, in break in you are only running at lower rpms and typically for a short period, 20 minutes. Am I being too paranoid here? While I had a professional experience with the engine builder, in this area some people hate him and some people use him all the time. I'm sure I should not worry, but it's just on one fhose little things that makes me a bit nervous. I'm sure in any small metro area various builders have strong likes and dislikes amongst each other and the same goes for their customers.

[joflaig]

Ron, You hit the nail on the head! You said 540 hp and 600 fpt, and guess what? On the second pull we hit 543 and 612 fpt! First pull was 530/587. Redline was 6000rpm.

It was an awesome experience to be in a small room like that with this power and noise just shaking the walls and air itself especially when the thing hits 6000rpm. It sounded incredible, like a nascar motor screaming. Below are some videos I took. I wish the sound qualitiy were better, but you can get a taste of it.

Warming up (6mb):
http://www.johnflaig.com/GL/dyno1.avi

2nd Pull (12mb):
http://www.johnflaig.com/GL/dyno2.avi

They managed to richen up the mix and cut the exhaust temp down by 250*. He said I should bring the car in and put it on their chasis dyno when it's all put together so it can be more finely tuned.

Anyway, I'm happy! I can't wait to drive this thing, but it won't be for another 6-8 weeks I bet. The track may even be open by then. I guess the 1/4 is the last test.

As for the all the NUMBERS they're putting together a booklet for me which I will get and scan and post next week. They said the engine ran the way you would hope, so I guess I won't be too paranoid now that another builder has been over it thouroughly.

[NMike]

love the waterpump drive!

i can't wait to make a very similar motor for my car.

[joflaig]

Here's the full results on this build!

http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page1.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page2.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page3.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page4.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page5.pdf

As I mentioned the dyno shop is a chevy place. They don't think it's a big deal, but looking at the #s they seemed to think I could have more "snap" from the motor. They thought the cam timing might be off or possibily a retarded cam.

At any rate neither they nor they guy at the resto shop thought I should be to concerned especially if there is a slight problem and it is only robbing a few horses.

But really, I am not the expert here so you guys tell me!

I still don't understand why the motor was running such a hot exhaust when it was delivered to the dyno shop. They had to mess with the jets to fatten it up. I was told the number was 12.5:1 at the top of the pull and the exhaust temp was now running 900* - 1000* after warming up the motor on the stand (What is normal?).

Basically, I think the dyno shop probably made it slightly too fat because they had more concern about getting the exhaust temp down. Their point was we can better tune it on the chassis dyno with everything hooked up. Again, they know chevy, but not so much mopar so I don't know how that factors.

I need to call the engine builder for something unrelated, and I was told to ask them if they checked the cam timing during the build. Can anyone think of anything else intelligent I could ask.

I am now back in paranoid mode.

Ron, where are you, man!

[firefighter3931]

Ron, You hit the nail on the head! You said 540 hp and 600 fpt, and guess what? On the second pull we hit 543 and 612 fpt! First pull was 530/587. Redline was 6000rpm.

Very nice  It made right around what it should  be making given the mild cam and slightly worked E-Heads. 

I'd be happy with those power numbers. 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Ron, where are you, man!

Just got home from Vegas (late last night) from the Mopars at the Strip show. 

Here's the full results on this build!

http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page1.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page2.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page3.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page4.pdf
http://johnflaig.com/GL/dyno/Page5.pdf

As I mentioned the dyno shop is a chevy place. They don't think it's a big deal, but looking at the #s they seemed to think I could have more "snap" from the motor. They thought the cam timing might be off or possibily a retarded cam.

At any rate neither they nor they guy at the resto shop thought I should be to concerned especially if there is a slight problem and it is only robbing a few horses.

But really, I am not the expert here so you guys tell me!

John, those numbers look fine. You have to remeber that this is a very mild build for a 512 ci stroker. You wanted a streetable engine with lots of low end power and this is what you got. Look at all the torque at low engine speed ! 

Even if the cam was retarded a few degrees it wouldn't make any appreciable difference. It's fine 

I still don't understand why the motor was running such a hot exhaust when it was delivered to the dyno shop. They had to mess with the jets to fatten it up. I was told the number was 12.5:1 at the top of the pull and the exhaust temp was now running 900* - 1000* after warming up the motor on the stand (What is normal?).

Basically, I think the dyno shop probably made it slightly too fat because they had more concern about getting the exhaust temp down. Their point was we can better tune it on the chassis dyno with everything hooked up. Again, they know chevy, but not so much mopar so I don't know how that factors.

I need to call the engine builder for something unrelated, and I was told to ask them if they checked the cam timing during the build. Can anyone think of anything else intelligent I could ask.

The EGT's seem a little high. It's possible that the engine is pulling some air in from the manifold or carb base which could be leaning out the mixture. On the back of the Street Dominator Intake there is an EGR port with two holes that need to be blocked off with freeze plugs...was this done ? How much vacuum was the engine pulling at idle ?



Ron

[joflaig]

I figured you were somewhere warm. 

No, I ain't complaining at all about the #s it makes. I am very happy with it and it's just what I wanted.

The dyno shop installed the carb spacer, I suppose it's possible they didn't torque it down enough, or there could be a vacum leak. The engine builder thought maybe the were using outside cold air on the dyno instead of the air in the room. I will check it out next time I visit my car at the shop. At any rate, it's going back on the chassis dyno for fine tuning when it's all put together.

I am definetly re-assured now. Thanks for your help on all this Ron!

When I am getting ready to go to the strip I will be asking for more advice! Can't wait to drive this thing in a month or so.

[73charger528cid]

THATS GREAT!!!!       

makes me feel good just completed my build on my engine it's very similar to yours and those # are pretty good hope mine does as well.

mines a 528  with 11.6 comp Its got flat tops with zero deck I had to run a .051 gasket to drop the comp because the block was decked the last build.
same heads Im running 1.6 rockers with a 241/247 @ .050   110 lobe sep
TM7 manifold 2" spacer  1090 king demon
mancini raceing exsternal single pick up oil system
180 gph electric pump and 1/2" fuel lines
Everything else is pretty much the same I have no acssess to a engine dyno so if I even come close Ill be happy.


Bill

[Mfr426]

I am just about to finish my VERY similar 440>512 stroker motor and hope to have it to Ray Barton to break it in and get me dyno numbers in the next few weeks. All I can say about this thread is HOLY LOAD this is too cool! 

Ron, I may name my third born after you-even it's another girl!

\

Thank you both for taking the time to post the specifics, it's a real learning experience.

Mike R in Reading PA

[joflaig]

I am just about to finish my motor and hope to have to to Ray Barton to break it in and get me dyno numbers in the next few weeks. All I can say about this thread is HOLY LOAD this is too cool! 

Ron, I may name my third born after you-even it's another girl!

Three cheers for Ron, that's for sure!

Mfr426, I see you are from Reading. I lived for time when I was little outside of Reading in a town called Gouglersville...not far from Maple Grove. In the summer you could here them racing for miles around.

[Mfr426]

Jofaig, I know PRECISELY where Gouglersville is. The NEW 222 road now really has the town on the map! I'm in Sinking Spring. Talk about small world! 

I have a good friend that lives off of Maple Grove road and on some weekends their widows shake!!!! It's too bad that Maple Grove has missed Marketing 101 because that place could be a HUGE success. It's a hidden jewel and with the right owners it could be far more successful. 

I'm eager to run my car at "the Grove" this summer. I'm not going to beat it too badly but I'm eager to "try" the new motor. 

[gasoline_24]

Can anyone tell me if the Rollerized Rear Governor Support is necessary for the tranny rebuild?  I am copying most of this build, but this was a fairly pricey part and didn't want to spend the money unless it was going to improve overall performance.

[joflaig]

Can anyone tell me if the Rollerized Rear Governor Support is necessary for the tranny rebuild?  I am copying most of this build, but this was a fairly pricey part and didn't want to spend the money unless it was going to improve overall performance.

I'm not a tranny expert, but the builder was. This was their call.

[gasoline_24]

Was this the part your ordered?  What speedometer gear did you get?  I believe you were running 275 60 15 and 3.55 is that correct?

http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/727--Rear-Kit-Only---LowReverse-Steel-Drum-Support--Park-Gear-(1966-89)__22754K.aspx

[joflaig]

Was this the part your ordered?  What speedometer gear did you get?  I believe you were running 275 60 15 and 3.55 is that correct?

http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/727--Rear-Kit-Only---LowReverse-Steel-Drum-Support--Park-Gear-(1966-89)__22754K.aspx

The tranny guy ordered the part. If it's not detailed on the list a few pages back, then I don't know. I just took the car into the resto shop today, oddly enough, and one of the things I am having done is to get the right speedo gear installed! Don't know what it will be yet, but yes that is the tire size.

[danmc77]

Jofaig, I know PRECISELY where Gouglersville is. The NEW 222 road now really has the town on the map! I'm in Sinking Spring. Talk about small world! 

I have a good friend that lives off of Maple Grove road and on some weekends their widows shake!!!! It's too bad that Maple Grove has missed Marketing 101 because that place could be a HUGE success. It's a hidden jewel and with the right owners it could be far more successful. 

I'm eager to run my car at "the Grove" this summer. I'm not going to beat it too badly but I'm eager to "try" the new motor. 

I'm about 30 minutes from there off rt100 near Pottstown.  I pass through that part of 222 all the time - Funyy, I actually always read the name Gouglersville on the sign and laugh - funny name.

I've heard of Maple grove, but had no idea it was so close - once my Charger is done, I'd love to take it to the track - nice to know there's one so close.