Re: just contemplating my build... [UPDATED: 4/2/08] - ALL DYNO #s

[joflaig]

I went with the MP SS springs and the Comp Engineering 3 way adjustable shocks. 

Hmm, they sound good, but given my use case this notice worries me:

"NOTE: These shocks are designed for DRAG RACE use only! Not for street use. "

[firefighter3931]

You don't believe everything you read...do ya ? 


Ron

[joflaig]

You don't believe everything you read...do ya ? 

Certainly not but I could see myself getting irrated with adjustable shocks. My goal is for a little flexbility and reach in each direction and with minimal manual intervention -- same reason I'm taking your advice on the hydraulic cam.

[firefighter3931]

You don't believe everything you read...do ya ? 

Certainly not but I could see myself getting irrated with adjustable shocks. My goal is for a little flexbility and reach in each direction and with minimal manual intervention -- same reason I'm taking your advice on the hydraulic cam.

A true dual purpose shock needs to be adjustable for best perforomance in all circumstances. You can have your cake and eat it too... but you will have to do a little work on track day. 



Ron

[joflaig]

I guess like everyone I am a bit lazy!

[joflaig]

The guys at the resto shop were talking about the engine build and their only comment on what I might be overlooking was as follows:

"We talked about it and we think that you should go to a larger capacity aluminum radiator. I would also recommend a SPAL electric fan set-up, thermostatically controlled. Then we would also mount an engine oil cooler and a trans cooler, all kind of in the same area up front."

The tranny cooler was already a done deal. What do 'yall think about the other two items?

[firefighter3931]

No need for an oil cooler as longas you use a 6qt pan. You can probably get away with a stock 3 core 26in factory rad and a shroud with the viscious fan package. If not then you can upgrade to an aluminum crossflow rad later...but i would try the stock stuff first. 



Ron

[Charger-Bodie]

No need for an oil cooler as longas you use a 6qt pan. You can probably get away with a stock 3 core 26in factory rad and a shroud with the viscious fan package. If not then you can upgrade to an aluminum crossflow rad later...but i would try the stock stuff first. 



Ron

I run a stock(but recored) 3 core radiator, factory shroud,and viscious fan package with my 505 stroker gine. It runs consistantly at about 175 degrees even when its hot outside. 

[joflaig]

I run a stock(but recored) 3 core radiator, factory shroud,and viscious fan package with my 505 stroker gine. It runs consistantly at about 175 degrees even when its hot outside. 

Do you think I should replace the stock radiator & fan?

[Charger-Bodie]

I run a stock(but recored) 3 core radiator, factory shroud,and viscious fan package with my 505 stroker gine. It runs consistantly at about 175 degrees even when its hot outside. 

Do you think I should replace the stock radiator & fan?

um, no I would run the stock stuff myself , just make sure its all in good condition.

[joflaig]

I'm not building this engine myself and some things like gasktets and hoses and clips, etc, the shop may have on hand or be able to pick up quick. So what I'm just trying to do is gather the big, expensive and important pieces before the engine goes to the shop so that once they have it they're not "waiting on parts".

So far I have the Engle Cam, 512 Stroker Kit from 440 Source, and a 10" TA torque converter (I'll let the shop pick a new flex plate and tranny hardware). I've also got the MSD 6al ignition and Blaster II coil.

SO, Before I order what I've outlined below through Summit I just want to make sure I have the right parts picked out. I am going with Edelbrock Performer RPM 84cc Heads (which the shop will build).

1. Holley Street Dominator Intake Manifold (low rise single plane) - Part # HLY-300-14
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY%2D300%2D14&autoview=sku

Extra parts:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY%2D300%2D14&view=64&N=700+115

Should I get all the extra recommend parts Summit lists? Seems I might as well.


2. Proform 950hp carb - Part # PRO-67202
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRO%2D67202&view=1&N=700+

Do I need anything from here or is this stuff the shop can easily get:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRO%2D67202&view=64&N=700+

(keep in mind they are starting with a fully built and functional stock engine and not just a block or something)


3. MP Hemi 6qt Oil Pan - Part# DCC-4529884
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DCC%2D4529884&N=700+400172+115&autoview=sku


4. MP stroker Windage Tray
There are a number of them on Summit, but not sure which one works with that oil pan and which will work with the stroker kit???

[firefighter3931]

The list looks good !


(1) The SD manifold is perfect....get the 1215 intake gasket and the ARP bolts (optional)

(2) Proform 950hp is perfect.....get a dual feed line and the 20-7 bracket adapter which is a mopar specific piece. I would also suggest a carb insulating gasket which is about 3/8in thick and prevents fuel boiling in the hot summer months.

(3) The perfect oiling system is in the link below. Mancini carries everything you need and their pan & Pickup set is only $159.00. Of course you will need a different windage tray to accomodate the increased stroke.

windage tray :

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopbrb415str1.html


The rest in here :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,38359.0.html




Ron

[joflaig]

The list looks good !

Awesome, thanks Ron. I basically ordered everything you suggested. I wonder why Mancini's oil system stuff is so much cheaper than Summit. From what I've seen Summit is usually cheapest.

Well that shopping trip set me back about 1200. If I had to guess I'd say that with rebuilding the tranny included this whole deal, with labor, will probably end up between 8 to 10k. Parts look to be 60-70% and labor the remainder.

I hadn't been planning on it, but after reading HemiDoug's "hook for x-mas" thread and then digging into it some more I now have mp sub-frame connectors, QA1 shocks, and a Slide a link set and new ESPO springs in boxes in my bedroom!

So I guess it just wouldn't be right now If I didn't get a pair of slicks after all this trouble too.

Thank god for credit cards!

[BrianShaughnessy]

Awesome, thanks Ron. I basically ordered everything you suggested. I wonder why Mancini's oil system stuff is so much cheaper than Summit. From what I've seen Summit is usually cheapest.

Mancini's been doing the mopar thing since ...  um...  before anybody heard of Summit.    Mancini used to and probably still does dropship for Summit.

[joflaig]

Yeah, I was just on the phone with them to place an order. I've never ordered anything from them, but have talked to them a few times. They are always a little grouchy sounding on the phone. What the guy just told me was with a 4.250" stroke that their 6 qt Hemi oil pan probably won't work perfectly. He said I'd need to use this windage tray:

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopbrb415str1.html

and also I think he said something about using two gaskets? BUT, the first thing out of his mouth when I told him 440 -> 512, 4.250" stroke was to go with a Miloden pan.

As usual, you ask 5 different people and you get five different answers! Not sure what to do with this particular detail now.

[2harleyriders]

I am following you lead and building the same stroker you are right now.  Taking the block to the machine shop tommorrow.   I have the same question about the windage tray from Mopar.  Will it work?  It looks like it won"t work for the 512 stroker???

[firefighter3931]

Yeah, I was just on the phone with them to place an order. I've never ordered anything from them, but have talked to them a few times. They are always a little grouchy sounding on the phone. What the guy just told me was with a 4.250" stroke that their 6 qt Hemi oil pan probably won't work perfectly. He said I'd need to use this windage tray:

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopbrb415str1.html

and also I think he said something about using two gaskets? BUT, the first thing out of his mouth when I told him 440 -> 512, 4.250" stroke was to go with a Miloden pan.

As usual, you ask 5 different people and you get five different answers! Not sure what to do with this particular detail now.

If you look at my response above it showed a link to the MP stroker windage tray and i stated that this would need to be substituted for the part i listed in Bulls thread :

windage tray : http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopbrb415str1.html

For a build like yours the MP 6qt hemi pan is fine and yes it will clear a 4.25 stroke crank. The 440 Source 512 stroker kits use a 2.20 rod pin dimension which actually has more internal clearance than the 4.15 stroke that uses the factory 2.375 dimension. 

In a nutshell : The bigger stroke doesn't necessarily mean there will be problems....in fact the smaller 2.20 rod journals create more internal clearance as compared to the 4.15/2.375 (493 ci) rotating assembly. Bare in mind that the MP stroker tray was designed for the 493 rotating assembly. 


The Hemi pan is well baffled and oil control is a non issue. It also holds close to 7 qt's with a filter which is plenty, inmo. The huge bonus, especially for a street car is that the pan is protected by the K-frame. The Milidon low profile 7qt pan hangs below the k-frame and if you're not careful it will get dented or worse...ripped clean off. Speed bumps, pot holes...you name it....they all suck ! 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

I am following you lead and building the same stroker you are right now.  Taking the block to the machine shop tommorrow.   I have the same question about the windage tray from Mopar.  Will it work?  It looks like it won"t work for the 512 stroker???

See above 



Ron

[BrianShaughnessy]

Milodon after several years and several thousand miles of abuse...    I got my PS steering box is out right now.

[joflaig]

Ok, sorry if I sound confused, just want to make I have it absolutely right!  You are saying go with the MP hemi 6qt:

MP Hemi 6qt Oil Pan - Part# DCC-4529884
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DCC%2D4529884&N=700+400172+115&autoview=sku

AND for the windage tray this MOPAR - "B/RB" - PArt #MOP-P4120998:
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/moparbrb1.html

Right?

[firefighter3931]

Ok, sorry if I sound confused, just want to make I have it absolutely right!  You are saying go with the MP hemi 6qt:

MP Hemi 6qt Oil Pan - Part# DCC-4529884
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DCC%2D4529884&N=700+400172+115&autoview=sku

AND for the windage tray this MOPAR - "B/RB" - PArt #MOP-P4120998:
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/moparbrb1.html

Right?

The oilpan is correct but the windage tray is wrong....the one you linked to is for a stock 440 (3.75in stroke).


This one will work....4.15in stroker crank windage tray :

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopbrb415str1.html



Ron

[joflaig]

Ah, thank you so much Ron, I'd be stuck without you! 

Incdidently, as I pointed out a few posts I ago I have been expecting something to go wrong and sure enough FedEx had delivered my 440 source crank and affiliated parts to a house two blocks a away and on a different street, but with the same street number. Of course this stuff weighs so much the owner of the house didn't bother trying to get it inside and it was sitting on on their front steps for two days. Thank goodness nobody walked off with them. I suspect now when we pull the heads off the block instead of a stock bore it will be 60 over!

[firefighter3931]

Ah, thank you so much Ron, I'd be stuck without you! 

Incdidently, as I pointed out a few posts I go I have been expecting something to go wrong and sure enough FedEx had delivered my 440 source crank and affiliated parts to a house two blocks a away and on a different street, but with the same street number. Of course this stuff weighs so much the owner of the house didn't bother trying to get it inside and it was sitting on on their front steps for two days. Thank goodness nobody walked off with them. I suspect now when we pull the heads off the block instead of a stock bore it will be 60 over!

You're welcome Joe.

Hopefully the Fedex glitch is your biggest problem....think positive buddy ! 


Ron


Ps. Dang shame about those Packers....what an awesome season they had. Lets hope Brett comes back next season for another run at it. 

[joflaig]

That's a taboo subject! I will not watch TV or read the papers for a least a week. I had to medicate myself this morning.

[joflaig]

Just back from the shop. They've got the engine and tranny out and will be taking them to the engine place tomorrow. Now that the bay is mostly empty it's easier to see some of the body issues that were previously hard to judge. The main problem is with the left frame rail. There were dime size holes and pitting in a section about 5 inches long right in the middle of the rail right where the k-member starts. The shop cut out the rot so there is now a rectangular hole on one side about 1" x 5". The outside face of the rail, kind of in the area where shock is also has some smallish holes and is thin in spots. They said they thought there seemed to be the remains of a mouse nest.

What they propose is to clean up the metal as best they can put some crap inside to prevent rusting, weld some pieces into the holes they cut out, and then weld steel plates around the whole area to give it back it's strength.

This would probably not involve taking out the k-member. Also this is the only rot on the entire front end, basically. Not sure why?!

I suspect it would be a lot more expenisve to either replace the whole frame rail or cut out a big section and put in a portion of a new frame rail.

Any opinions? They are going to email some pics later (I hope!).