Re: just contemplating my build... [UPDATED: 4/2/08] - ALL DYNO #s

[joflaig]

If you knew how much I spend keeping my kids afloat you would be happy to pay the piper....   

touche!

[firefighter3931]

Joflaig, i can't remember if sparkplugs were discussed so here's my suggestion : NGK bcp(r)-6es...work great with the e-heads at 10.5:1 or so compression. No fouling & a nice even spark.   


Ron


Ps. You're welcome for the help

[joflaig]

Joflaig, i can't remember if sparkplugs were discussed so here's my suggestion : NGK bcp(r)-6es...work great with the e-heads at 10.5:1 or so compression. No fouling & a nice even spark.   

That was on my list, but I wasn't sure what to go with. Thanks I will mention this to the builder.

[joflaig]

Engine is complete and going on to the stand for break-in as I speak. They'll call me later for an update and I will be seeing it run for myself tomorrow morning then it's off to the Dyno. I hope to get the numbers next week sometime.

After the standard 20 minute break-in on the engine stand and a change of oil, assuming no problems, a few pulls on the dyno a week later at 6000rpm should be no concern, right?

[Steve P.]

I'm sure if they have a break in stand at the shop it will have all the gauges to tell them what is going on with the motor. I wouldn't worry at all.. 

[firefighter3931]

Breakin on the stand is fine....but have them optimize the tuneup while it's on the dyno. Start with the stock jetting in the Proform carb and the timing we discussed earlier to baseline the motor. The A/F ratios can be verified and corrected on the dyno if need be and they can make some adjustments to the total advance to see what makes the best power. It should be in the 35* total timing range from my experience with similar builds using flattop pistons and closed chamber aluminum heads. Get copies of the dyno sheets as well for future reference. 

Make plans to be there when it's dynoed and ask questions & observe. 



Ron

[joflaig]

I will surely be there when they do the dyno pulls.

The pistons are -17 CC dished pistons.

The engine builder said he was thinking 18* initial timing at idle, 18* swing, 36* total advance, with the total in by 2800 rpm. He's using Autolite 3924 spark plugs. I did end up with an MSD distributor for a complete MSD ignition.

I look forward to seeing this fricken thing run tomorrow, but it also means I get the bill.

Is there any special mods needed for the throttle linkage with this carb?

[joflaig]

I made it to the shop today, but didn't get to see it run, will have to wait until Monday, but below are some pics.

The machinist did some "clean up" on the heads and intake, specifically, push rod hump, bowl blending, cleaning up manifold w/porting to match gaskets. He said he thought I should get 20-30 extra hp with the improved flow. They seemed to think the SD really needed a lot of work in particular.

This stuff ring true?

[joflaig]

a few more...

[Steve P.]

It shooooooooor is purdy...   

Can't wait to hear the numbers...   

[firefighter3931]

Looks nice !  It's odd that they routed the fuel line like that....it's installed backwards. Perhaps they did that because it was interfering with the distributor ? One thing i would do is install a 1in open spacer beneath the carb for added plenum volume and insulation from heat. This really helps in the summertime when engine's are prone to vapor lock. It will still clear the stock hood with a 1.25in drop base air cleaner assembly....K&N makes a 14x3 flo-thru top assembly that is ideal. 

The street Dominator is one of those manifolds that doesn't look like much compared to the racier M1 & Victor intakes but don't let the subtle appearance fool you.....it ROCKS ! 

Looking forward to the power numbers ! 

Make sure to get copies of the dyno sheets and once we have the data i will archive this thread in the proven combos forum ! 




Ron

[Steve P.]

The fuel line may just be set up that way for the test stand.  Though I have seen a few set up that way on the street..  Too much heat in the fender/firewall corner in my opinion..

[joflaig]

I finally got to see and hear that beast run today. Even with the mufflers it sounded fierce. Somehow I don't see myself practicing very good fuel economy with this thing...

My main advice to someone entering this process is to try and buy a lot of the parts yourself beforehand. You will find them cheaper than what the builder will charge. Thanks to the great advice I got here I was able to bring a carload of parts to the builder, but the little things that you don't get do add up.

Sometime in the next week I should be getting the #s from the dyno.

Below is the final list that includes most parts, but maybe not every little nut or bolt.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use: Primarily street/highway, few times a year at the strip

Desire: power across the band, 11s at the strip, very low maintenance, reliability, *decent* fuel economy, fits stock hood, room for future growth (porting heads, etc)

Note: Car has power breaks, 275/60/15 rear tires

Block:

• 1972 440 block
• pressure tested, cleaned, magnafluxed
• .030 over bored
• squared decks, bore and deck plate honed, file fitted piston rings, honed lifter bores

Engine:

Compression Ratio: 10 - 10.5:1

• 512ci Stroker Kit from 440 Source (4.25" stroke/7.100" rod), balanced crank, -17 CC dished pistons, 1.480" Compression Height
• 440 Source Billet Steel Main Caps
• ARP studs
• ATI Super Damper Harmonic Balancer (elastomer style)
• Holley Street Dominator Intake Manifold (low rise single plane) - Part# HLY-300-14
• Fel-Pro 1215 intake gasket, valley pan
• ARP bolts
• Machining: gasket match intake porting


• Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads 84cc
• Comp Cams Pro Magnum Shaft Mount Roller Rocker Arms - Part# CCA-1321-16
• Comp Cams 3/8 .080 Wall Pushrod set
• Comp Cams "stock" springs
• Comp Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Lifters - Part# CCA-867-16
• Fel-Pro 1009 head gaskets
• Fel-Pro valve cover gaskets
• ARP head bolt, washer set
• Machining: push rod hump, bowl blending, intake "cleanup"


• ProForm 950hp Carburetor - Part# PRO-67202
• Dual Feed Line
• 20-7 Bracket Adapter
• Carb insulating Gasket (3/8in)
• Summit Phenolic 1" Carburetor Spacer - Part# SUM-G1405
• K&N X-Stream Air Flow Assembly, 1.25" drop base, 14 in. diameter, 3" filter height - Part#  66-3040
• MOPAR Hemi Oil Pan - Part# DCC-4529884
• 3/8 pickup
• Enlarged oil passage
• Fel-Pro 1834 gasket
• MOPAR 4.150 in. Stroker / 500ci Windage Tray - Part# DCC-5007345


• Engle Hydraulic Cam (k62 intake lobe/ k64 exhaust)

• 294/298 advertised running duration
• 244/250 duration @ .050
• .540/.557 valve lift
• 110* lsa
• 3 bolt flank
• Dura-Bond PDP-17 Cam Bearing set
• ARP Cam bolt kit

• 160 Thermostat


• 3 Bolt Double Roller Timing Chain

• Billet Gears w/ Torrington Bearing

• Edelbrock Victor Series Mechanical Water Pump – Part# EDL-8814
• Carter Hemi Fuel Pump
• Melling High Volume Oil Pump – Part# M63HV
• MOPAR Oil Pump Driveshaft Part # DCC-3571071
• MOPAR Oil Pump Pickup Part # DCC-5249817
• MOPAR Hemi Oil Dipstick (modified)
• Fel-Pro R.A.C.E. Gasket Set 2716
• Indy Billet Rear Seal Retainer
• Brass Block Plugs

Ignition:

• MSD Pro Billet Distributor
• MSD 6al Ignition (6000 RPM rev limiter) Part # MSD-6420
• MSD Blaster Coil 2 Part # MSD-8202
• Autolite 3924 Spark Plugs
• Taylor Spark plug wires

Exhaust:

• 2" TTI ceramic coated, polished headers w/ thermal barrier
• 3" TTI X pipe front and rear exhaust
• DynoMax Ultra Flo straight-though, offset-center mufflers - Part# WLK-17221 (2)

Transmission:

• 727 Torqueflite, 1966 casting
• 10" Street "S-800" Series Turbo Action Torque Converter (Tight) Part #17805ST

(2800 stall - 3400 stall range)

• Heavy duty B&M Flex Plate (holes must be for 7/16 bolts with flat heads to work with convertor) Part #10230
• A&A Ultimate Rear Sprag gear
• A&A Rollerized Rear Governor Support w/ Bearings
• Red lined clutches
• Speedometer Gear (3.54 gears, rear tires = 27.5" diameter)
• ARP hardware

Misc:

• 18* initial timing at idle, 18* swing, 36* total advance, the total in by 2800 rpm
• Brad Penn 20w 50 motor oil (after break-in)
• 26" Be Cool Aluminum Radiator Kit w/duel 11" Spal Fans - Part # BCI-82270

[/list]

[Charger-Bodie]

That thing is VERY similar to MY 505. 

[joflaig]

Now, I just need to decide on the radiator and fan combo. I'm looking for aluminum, bolt-in, possibly with the trans cooler built-in and an electric fan.

[Steve P.]

It all sounds great. I would make one change to your future purchase though. Add a tranny cooler and do not use the rad. for your tranny at all..  You have built a motor that will be TOO much for a wintry road, so no need to ADD heat to the tranny. You will want to keep the tranny cool as you can.



  Steve

[firefighter3931]

I finally got to see and hear that beast run today. Even with the mufflers it sounded fierce. Somehow I don't see myself practicing very good fuel economy with this thing...


* May add 1" spacer beneath the carb, and change to 1.25" K&N drop base air filter

A big azz stroker is supposed to sound fierce.....wait till you drop the hammer...then you'll have a true appreciation for torque and acceleration. 

I would add the 1in open spacer....that large of a motor will want the additional plenum volume for upper rpm breathing. Trust me on this 



Ron

[joflaig]

I would add the 1in open spacer....that large of a motor will want the additional plenum volume for upper rpm breathing. Trust me on this 

I asked the builder and he agreed, but he wasn't sure the hood would clear, but maybe he isn't aware of the K&N filter kit you had in mind. Anyway, if it had been his motor the hood would not even be factored into the equation!

Does it mater what material these spacers are made of?

[Steve P.]

I like the phenolic  spacers. They are the best for "NOT" transferring heat and they should never crack.

[joflaig]

Looks like ProForm offers exactly what I need then:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRO-67160C

It comes with a 4-hole insert and a 4-hole tapered insert. What's the difference in air flow between the two?

I'm looking on Summit and K&N's website, but am probably missing what I should seeing.

[firefighter3931]

I like the phenolic  spacers. They are the best for "NOT" transferring heat and they should never crack.

Phenolic is the way to go...no question ! 


spacer : http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG1405&N=700+4294925239+4294839063+4294873482+400304+4294873429+4294873480+115&autoview=sku

Air cleaner assembly : http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=KNN%2D66%2D3040&N=700+4294925239+4294839057+4294756384+400171+4294904151+4294756359+4294790850+4294756032+4294791485+115&autoview=sku



Ron

[joflaig]

Thanks Ron, I've ordered those parts (and updated the master list above).

The builder thought a custom measured aluminum rad from Mancini and a viscous fan would be fine for this combo. I talked at length to a helpful guy at Mancini and (surprise) he thinks it would be fine too (ok maybe I'm being too cynical). His point was that with this engine a viscous fan would rob almost no power. He also thought it was "old fashinioned" to think there was some disadvantage to a built in trans cooler. I know, you could argue endlessly.

[firefighter3931]

I prefer to run the trans cooler as a stand alone unit because it will not tax the cooling system. 

Here's a thread you should look at to "bulletproof" your driver side engine mount. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13216.0.html



Ron

[joflaig]

Here's a thread you should look at to "bulletproof" your driver side engine mount. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13216.0.html

Yup, saw that a while ago. That has been taken care of already!

[firefighter3931]

Here's a thread you should look at to "bulletproof" your driver side engine mount. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13216.0.html

Yup, saw that a while ago. That has been taken care of already!

Good....you'll need that reinforced mount with the stroker ! 



Ron