Home Security Help Needed

[Troy]

I went back and read a couple of previous discussions we've had about this but I'm looking for any information that I can get. First, some background. I moved out of the city several years ago - mainly because I got tired of having my stuff stolen. Also, I hate living right up against my neighbors and I like having a yard and trees and grass. I moved in with a friend just outside of a smaller town. We live on a street mostly filled with retirees who have lived here for 30-40 years and never had to deal with any crime. When I first moved here we never locked the doors on the cars and rarely locked the house unless we were going to be gone all day. My roommate had a dog (German Shepherd/Chow mix) when I moved in and we took in a stray Beagle/Boxer/mutt a little over two years ago. My roommate took a job in Cleveland (4 hours away) late last year and moved with the dogs up there. However, for the purposes of this discussion, I'll still refer to them as my "roommate" since it's easier than saying "the owner of the house that I live in".

In March, someone took a crowbar to the door frame in the back of the house and knocked the door clean off into the house. They stole a big screen TV, the hitch ball off my Ram, and my used-once pressure washer. They went through all of the rooms but we didn't notice anything else missing. They caused nearly $2,000 damage to the house. The first question all the neighbors asked was "where were the dogs?" The police never caught anyone but both officers AND the detective remarked that they'd never had any problems in our area. It was treated as a random occurrence. It was especially random since nearly all of our neighbors were away when it happened. One thing that really sticks in my head is that the light bub was unscrewed from the porch light in back - even though the thieves broke in during the day. The insurance covered all of my roommate's stuff but I had to replace mine. I also had to miss some work to be around for the detectives. My roommate purchased security flood lights and some inside light timers. We checked into an alarm service but it seemed overkill with all of our nosy neighbors on the lookout and for something so random. I moved a bunch of my stuff to my garage and/or storage.

Last Wednesday, I had to work late to move some updates to the company web site. When I got in around 11:30 PM the security lights didn't come on when my truck hit the driveway but I could see the red LED on the sensor. The first thing I did was went to check them out and I saw that the lights had been aimed towards the ground and the bulbs were loosened. I reset everything and did a walk around of the entire house. The lights in back came on as soon as I got past the corner like they are supposed to. None of the windows or doors appeared to have been tampered with but I went inside and double checked all the rooms any way. I went to get the mail and decided that I should also check the storage shed in back. Half way across the yard I could see that the door latch/clasp was just hanging and I could tell someone ripped it off with a crow bar. The only thing missing appears to be the almost-new riding lawnmower. It had frosted so there were clear tracks going through the side yard and into the street.

So, in my estimation, this isn't a random occurrence. Someone knew that there were security lights and where they pointed. I can't imagine that they unscrewed the bulbs in the evening when they were on (defeats the purpose of disabling them) so they probably did that during the day. They also appeared to know that the neighbors don't have a clear view of the back yard (we have lots of trees/woods) so they left the rear lights alone. They knew that no one and no dogs were at home. They obviously didn't know that the shed door wasn't actually locked - which they could have seen in the daylight. The tracks in the grass also point to the fact that they did it late when all of our neighbors would have been in bed. There has been NO CRIME on our street in 40 years and our house has now been burglarized twice within eight months.

Needless to say, my roommate was ticked. Partially because the items stolen are barely more than the insurance deductible so this is all out of pocket again. We (I) have guns but they're pretty useless if you aren't home. We're looking at video surveillance systems and/or a monitoring system. I'll have the dogs back with me from today through New Year's at least but they're only good if someone actually comes inside (or deters them from trying it). Outbuildings and cars are fair game. That also limits my ability to travel for the holidays but I can't see leaving for a week with the house unattended. I work a LOT (and actually try to have a social life when I can) so it's difficult to rush home immediately every day. So, I'm looking for solutions - preferably video so we can see anyone snooping even if they don't steal anything. Recommendations, personal experience, or advice on who to talk to would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Troy

[dukeboy_318]

id get a video system and take the battery out of the cars while you are gone.  make sure you have one on the shed, all for sides of the house and one facing the road closest too you so that you can get a plate number in case they come back.  Then shoot the SOBs when you catch em

[Todd Wilson]

I know what you are going through there Troy. I had my garage broke into about 7 years or so ago. Lost most of my tools.  I've had people out back of my garage I dont know how many times in the last 4-5 years messing with everything. Someone took my Mopar Parking Only sign off the garage. I 've had the vehicles messed with and various big items along the garage that grow legs and walk off.  I have put up 2 mercury vapor lights one in the front and one out back now. I think I had the front one when you were here to visit.  I had motion lights out back and they never did seem to work consistant so I went to a big Merc. out back. Its up high enough no one can get to it. What I have noticed in my case is the big lights dont mean much to who ever keeps messing with my 74 Dodge truck The light just makes it easier to see what they are doing.

I've set up a video camera in a few places and record. I have a DVR card for my computer but it takes a robust machine dedicated to watching to use it fully. I use VCR's now and rotate the tapes every 8 hours. Problem with cheap camera's is they see good during the day and may or may not see good if at all at night. They also may not be able to pin point who it actually is.  If you know the people ripping you off you could probably tell who it was if they were caught on tape. If not you probably couldnt pick em out of a line up. But cops usually know people who are in and out of trouble and they may be able to recognize someone so its not all lost.   Only way to do it right is to spend some $$$$ on good camera's. You could easily have 1000$ invested in a few cameras. Stay away from wireless cameras if you can. I have a 2.4ghz unit that works really pretty good. GOod quality camera but it doesnt like interference. wireless networks mess with it. Cordless phones and even the microwave running will knock it out.  It has IR LED's for night vision and between those and the merc. vapor light it does a good job. It also shows the red eye glow of the LED's at night. The good camera's wont show themselves but this is not a bad thing because it shows who ever messing around that they are on camera. I havent had any problems since I put the camera up out back.

You also need to protect your recording device as good theives will take it too and then you got nothing. What ever it is put it in a place hidden and out of the way. Someplace completely stupid for a recording device to be. Like under your bathroom sink in the cabinet.

Only way to slow down things is to get stupid on locks and stuff.  Maybe put a sound device in the shed so if they door opens an alarm rings.  Camera's everywhere. If you can film the road along with all areas of your property. Chain up the riding mower like your bicycle at school even though its in the shed.  If you got fences around stuffd lock the gates. Anything to slow things down for the stealing.


Heres a web site that has a lot of cool stuff if you are wanting camera's


www.scdlink.com


I am looking at wireless network camera's  Lots different then the 2.4ghz wireless you can buy at Walmart. Stick one of them in the shed and they may trash or steal it but you got em by surprise when they open it up! This stuff could be viewed while you are at work if you have a good internet connection at home.


I also now dont try and advertise when I am at home. I used to have the garage door open while I was out mowing the yard and doing stuff. Door may be open all afternoon  letting who ever see whats inside and the 2 Chargers. I did this after I kept getting people stopping wanting to buy the Chargers.  Most were friendly fellow Mopar people but after I got my stuff ripped off I started thinking a different way. I dont trust anyone I dont know and my stuff stays shut like a fortress around here now.


In the end you can only slow down stuff. You cant prevent it as someone will get in if they want. An alarm system is good but if you live out of town they would be gone by the time the cops showed up after an alarm trip. Keep an eye on everything. Talk with your neighbors. Keep up on the neighborhood buzz. All of us on this block talk pretty frequent and others have had problems too. A few guys have been caught on this block too. I had my story a year or so ago on the forum here of talking the cops into a garden of a backyard via 911 to bust some dudes.  Next door nieghbor seen someone prowling around here earlier this summer and they got busted too.


Todd

[Drache]

Ive worked as a security consultant for both residential and commercial and I can say you made one mistake. Security lights should NEVER be placed low enough that someone could just reach up and unscrew them, they need to be placed so that a ladder is required. Also getting the brightest lights made is a good choice! If you get complaints from your neighbors that it seems daylight comes on when the lights come on, they are bright enough.

Another cheap trip is to buy these little alarm type things that are normally used for putting on cupboards, they go off if the cupboard door is opened. It's just a small startle effect that can sometimes work. A little more pricey is a simple fake security camera with a red light. Just remember to place it well out of reach but pointing to your shed or garage in your back yard and also place a sign saying that your place is now video monitored. That will keep them watching just in case.

A really simple way is to have a friend dress up like you and leave in your vehicle as if you're going to work and you just sit in a darkened house with a telephone close at hand. They think you left, you just lie in wait... course no guarantee this will work or when they would break in again.

You can also get a motion device that when it goes off sounds like a large dog going ape shit in the house.

But none of these compare to a monitored security system. What I mean by that is a system that if it goes off, the company informs the poilce if you cannot be reached at home.

[Troy]

Thanks for the suggestions. Money isn't really a big deal as it's cost around $3,500 out of pocket so far. No one has messed with any vehicles or I'd be camped out on the roof with a sniper rifle. It seems that they are interested in a few large items that can be easily sold. They left the surround sound stereo and DVD players when they took the TV and left my mountain bike and the other yard equipment in the shed this time. I'd rather have real cameras than fake ones as I'm no longer looking for a deterrent - I need evidence. I have looked at several systems that can be monitored remotely (we have a 5MB internet connection since I sometimes have to work from home). I was hoping that motion sensors on the cameras would cut down on the amount of storage required. My web cam has this feature and I use it to get pictures/video of the dogs since they won't sit still if you point something at them. It can record video or a series of still whenever it detects movement. We also have an abundance of spare computers and hard drives since we both work in the IT industry. The lights were placed where we had electricity because it was better to have them low than nothing at all. There is a street light at the road directly in front of the house and the lights under the porch have covers. If it were up to me the security lights would be on the upper corners of the house or possibly on free standing poles (especially out back).

Troy

[Todd Wilson]

Most good DVR surveillance cards will have a motion detect built in. The card just sits there and watchs and when he detects movement it records. Wireless cameras can cause a constant trip as any jump in the picture/signal is considered movement. I do not know how wireless IP camera's are. I suspect a lot better. I'd dig around for at least a 1000mhz machine with as much HD you can get. My 40gig showed 30 some hours of record time when I was messing with it. Put it in the most remote out of the way hidden area you can. View it if theres a problem or remotely from your regular PC. Who ever is ripping your stuff off knows its an easy target and they can make some quick cash to go buy more meth. Double locks on the shed door. Maybe even have a chain inside so when the door is cracked you got to unloack another lock to open it clear up. I'd have a noise maker start when it opens too. A hidden switch somewhere to shut off when you have to get in to it.  Dont forget about battery back up. Most everyones power box outside the house can be tripped pretty easy. Then they can do what they want.


Todd

[HITMAN 149]

GET AN ALLIGATOR!! OR A SPITTING COBRA!!!!!!!! OK..OK..I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE SITUATION!! IT WORKED ONCE WHEN I WENT TO A CALL OF A GIRLS APT THAT HAD BEEN BROKEN INTO!! SHE WAS IN TEARS, AND OBV TERRIFIED, AND THE ALLIGATOR SUGGESTION, MADE HER BUST OUT LAUGHING!!!
SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR THIEF TROUBLES!!!!! I'D FLIP OUT!! BUT I HAVE A PSYCHOTIC AMERICAN BULLDOG NOW!!! WOOF WOOF!!!
HAHAHA PROBABLY BE CHEAPER FOR ME TO JUST GET FRIGGIN ROBBED.. THAN IT IS TO FEED HIM!!!! lol!!!! OMG HE NEVERS STOPS!!!! LIKE A WELL OILED MACHINE!!!!!
HOPE ALL WORKS OUT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!

[bull]

I too would be more interested in catching than deterring. The first thing I always try to figure out is who it could be. Do your neighbors have a new addition to one of their homes like a dead-beat son who lost the job he only had for six month because he got caught doing drugs? Is there a new roommate in the neighborhood? IMO it's obviously someone who's had time to case your home and knows when you're gone. He might even know the dogs well enough that they'll leave him alone when he comes in. Before I read Drache's idea I was going to say the same thing about getting a buddy to leave the house about the same time you do, or just sneak someone in and leave them there when you go to work. It's a little paranoid and maybe hit and miss but probably a lot cheaper than a bunch of surveillance equipment. If you really want to catch the guy and get some money back out of him (or play a little soccer with his head) I doubt he's going to return once he sees a bunch of cameras all over the place.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Anytime that anything has ever happened in my neighborhood it gets tracked to troubled adolescent males that live within the neighborhood.   







   

[remta1]

 ...have you innocently and almost unknowingly mentioned it to someone and they could be the perpetrator or passed your info on ,have a good think about who you have discussed your security details with  neighbours , friends , workmates , without sounding paranoid recollect any things that you have noticed that are different around your enviroment that you perhaps didnt connect with previously .. are there any new people in your neighbourhood ( try seeing your security system from your nighbours point of view and search for weaknesses in your system  ..even give all those people false info , and if something happens that only they or you would know about  then you can elimate them or narrow them down  from your list of "candidates "  i agree get surveilance to catch them and set up a little sting operation .( over here we have a powder that most places in your neck of the woods would sell ...put it on certain items of " no real value " tell a few people ( as above ) and see what happens . ( the powder just looks like dust but when it comes into contact with skin or clothing it goes bright green and takes about 3 or 4 days to come off ) ..or you may just want to use cyanide 

Whatever surveilance system you use make sure that they cant break in and get access to tapes or a computer where it would be being recorded and monitered .a supermarket got broken into down the road from where i live and thay broke into the office where the surveilance recorder was and stole it and the tape inside it .

[BMOTOXSTAR]

id get a video system and take the battery out of the cars while you are gone.  make sure you have one on the shed, all for sides of the house and one facing the road closest too you so that you can get a plate number in case they come back.  Then shoot the SOBs when you catch em

Troy,
In all honesty, this may sound funny but get some guard dogs. My brother did that and he never had probplems with the thieves again.
Really man, the dogs scare em' off & they bark and howl like crazy.

[Lowprofile]

I too would be more interested in catching than deterring. The first thing I always try to figure out is who it could be. Do your neighbors have a new addition to one of their homes like a dead-beat son who lost the job he only had for six month because he got caught doing drugs? Is there a new roommate in the neighborhood? IMO it's obviously someone who's had time to case your home and knows when you're gone. He might even know the dogs well enough that they'll leave him alone when he comes in. Before I read Drache's idea I was going to say the same thing about getting a buddy to leave the house about the same time you do, or just sneak someone in and leave them there when you go to work. It's a little paranoid and maybe hit and miss but probably a lot cheaper than a bunch of surveillance equipment. If you really want to catch the guy and get some money back out of him (or play a little soccer with his head) I doubt he's going to return once he sees a bunch of cameras all over the place.

Anytime that anything has ever happened in my neighborhood it gets tracked to troubled adolescent males that live within the neighborhood.

I agree. Same thing was happening up here in the woods. They would figure out your time-line then roll in while your working, and only take stuff they could get rid of quickly. Come to find out, it was 4 young males working for "meth $$$$".

Talk to your neighbors......see who's new/visiting. Maybe get your neighbor across the street from your house to let you mount a camera on their property looking at your house. Put some "nanny cams" in the house/shed........
Criminals are stupid, especially kids.....they'll be back.

[DukesofHoward]

GET AN ALLIGATOR!! OR A SPITTING COBRA!!!!!!!! OK..OK..I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE SITUATION!! IT WORKED ONCE WHEN I WENT TO A CALL OF A GIRLS APT THAT HAD BEEN BROKEN INTO!! SHE WAS IN TEARS, AND OBV TERRIFIED, AND THE ALLIGATOR SUGGESTION, MADE HER BUST OUT LAUGHING!!!
SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR THIEF TROUBLES!!!!! I'D FLIP OUT!! BUT I HAVE A PSYCHOTIC AMERICAN BULLDOG NOW!!! WOOF WOOF!!!
HAHAHA PROBABLY BE CHEAPER FOR ME TO JUST GET FRIGGIN ROBBED.. THAN IT IS TO FEED HIM!!!! lol!!!! OMG HE NEVERS STOPS!!!! LIKE A WELL OILED MACHINE!!!!!
HOPE ALL WORKS OUT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!

I gotta quit speed readin'...the first time through Hitman's comment I thought it said "once when I went to a call girl's apt and broke in"!! Losin' it...

[Old Moparz]

There isn't much to add, but I can add something about having a monitored alarm system. My house has one that was installed by the previous owner & it works great. There is a monitoring company that dispatches the local police to the house for the burglar alarm, or the fire department for the fire alarm.

I've had some false alarms that were triggered by a pet, but never a break in. The smoke alarm has gone off from something that was burnt in the kitchen, & the alarm company called right away to check on it. Once a friend looking for a light switch hit the panic button & the police showed up fast.   

There are stickers on a few windows warning that the house is protected, & you can see the blinking key pad inside my house from a couple of windows. I also have a few motion sensor flood lights around the house & keep nothing out in the open to be seen. You can't see my house from the road, so it's necessary.

Hope you catch the low life scum.   

[HITMAN 149]

GET AN ALLIGATOR!! OR A SPITTING COBRA!!!!!!!! OK..OK..I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE SITUATION!! IT WORKED ONCE WHEN I WENT TO A CALL OF A GIRLS APT THAT HAD BEEN BROKEN INTO!! SHE WAS IN TEARS, AND OBV TERRIFIED, AND THE ALLIGATOR SUGGESTION, MADE HER BUST OUT LAUGHING!!!
SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR THIEF TROUBLES!!!!! I'D FLIP OUT!! BUT I HAVE A PSYCHOTIC AMERICAN BULLDOG NOW!!! WOOF WOOF!!!
HAHAHA PROBABLY BE CHEAPER FOR ME TO JUST GET FRIGGIN ROBBED.. THAN IT IS TO FEED HIM!!!! lol!!!! OMG HE NEVERS STOPS!!!! LIKE A WELL OILED MACHINE!!!!!
HOPE ALL WORKS OUT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!

I gotta quit speed readin'...the first time through Hitman's comment I thought it said "once when I went to a call girl's apt and broke in"!! Losin' it...

hey that's not a bad scenerio either!!!!!!! hehehe

[C_stripes]

I don't remember what they are called, But they have cameras that are Motion sensors. You can program them to send a pic to your phone and email. They use them for hunting deer and other big game. As soon as there is motion. It takes a pic and sends it to you. The great thing is, Is that they are night vision. So they wouldn't even know you took the pic.  You can probably find them threw cabelas. Get a few of them and you will have hard evidence.

[C_stripes]

Here are a few links of simaler products.
http://www.snapshotsniper.com/
http://www.4hiddenspycameras.com/hucaouirmotr.html
http://www.4hiddenspycameras.com/hucaouirmotr.html

None of these are the one I was thinking.  But its a start.

And no, I don't hunt,  Except for muscle cars.

[dodgecharger-fan]

I've got some x10 wireless cameras and the software is pretty decent.

You can get in to a pretty decent system for not too much money.

They have motion sensor flood lights with cameras built in too...

The software can record, take a series of stills, etc... and e-mail you when there is an event. If you set up your firewall right, you can then connect to your system remotely and view the video, stills or real time right over the internet.

The site is cheezy, the e-mail newsletters are plentiful and there's always a sale on, but the stuff works. www.x10.com

[70charger_boy]

Move to Rhode Island.  There is no crime here

[Charger_Fan]

I haven't had to go down the extra security route yet *knock on wood*, so I don't have much to add.
However, I hope you can catch the losers that are doing this!

[nh_mopar_fan]

Move to Rhode Island.  There is no crime here

That's because all the criminals are elected officials.

[70charger_boy]

Move to Rhode Island.  There is no crime here

That's because all the criminals are elected officials.

Exactly!!

[2Gunz]

I would put up anything you can to make yourself less of an easy target.

Thieves are lazy and if its hard they will move on.

And to me it sounds like an "inside job". Somebody that knows you and

knows when you are gone.


Put up Alarm signs even if you dont have one.

Get a beware of dog sign.

Get a dog.

Put up some fake cameras.

Tie all the Lights together, as in one trips they all go on.


Make the stuff you have do out of the ordinary stuff.........

Such as make the outside lights turn on an inside light 10 seconds later.

Get a fence with a gate.


   As a kid I used to break into old buildings. It was fun and we never did damage,
or took things, Just wandered around checking out the old stuff.

The one thing that ALWAYS scared the hell out of me was noise.
Noise from anything.... Birds, creaking buildings, doors, you name it.

So get some stuff that makes noise.

If i was poking around and heard a recorded message say "hello..... anybody there?"

I would be SO gone.

Buzzers and alarms would be fine as well, but dont have the eminent danger that a human voice has.


Make the old garage light switch turn on a camera or take pictures.

Or maybe an alarm.

Move the real light switch to someplace less obvious.


Basically do everything you can to make it hard.

And do what you can to make things "odd" so it puts the thief on edge.

[Old Moparz]

The one thing that ALWAYS scared the hell out of me was noise.
Noise from anything.... Birds, creaking buildings, doors, you name it.

So get some stuff that makes noise.

If i was poking around and heard a recorded message say "hello..... anybody there?"

I would be SO gone.

Buzzers and alarms would be fine as well, but dont have the eminent danger that a human voice has.

Good point, I forgot to mention that the security system I have has a light & siren box mounted on the outside wall of my house. It's at least 25 feet off the ground, so without a ladder, you aren't going to get to it. It's loud & will scare the crap out of you when it goes off.