to stroke or not to stroke, finishing off combo

[67_Dodge_Charger]

I would talk to the machine shop when sellecting the copper gasket; you will need to know if you have zero deck on your pistons and what cc on the heads.  Copper gaskets require orings for high compression setups; costs for oringing the block is around $50 and you will be able to use your copper gaskets (after a thorough cleaning) up to three times.  I used a .093 copper gasket on my build to get 10.5+ compression.  Thickness of the intake gasket will be affected by the thickness of the head gasket; alignment of the intalke bolts changes with thicker head gaskets. 

My engine build went beyond my project budget; engine work was around $2000 and parts was around $5500.  Compression will affect all of the decisions on what is required (necessary) for making the engine reliable (longevity). 

Sounds like you will have a great setup for defeating that lowly mustang.

Robert

[Hot_Rodder]

took it to shop yesterday to have it bored, hopefully to .030 over, also any reccomendations for converter and flexplate in terms of manufacturer also im looking at the MSD 6AL ignition box with the rev limiter set at 7000, any thoughts on this box, good/bad??

Hmmm.... Since you will be going to a smaller than factory converter, at the biggest I would say an 11" conveter, so either way, yep you'll be changing the flexplate.... As for who though, dun know, maybe B&M? I'm thinking of probably getting a full round plate (stronger) with dual bolt pattern, if I can find it again.... . MSD 6AL is a great box, look into the Summit Racing stuff, they have some of there brand products out now, and some of it looks interesting, how ever, some of there stuff is about the same as some of the other products listed..... Something like these boxes:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D6420&N=700+4294925143+4294839065+4294925127+115&autoview=sku

And http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D850600&N=700+4294925143+4294839065+4294925127+115&autoview=sku

and http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=MAA-6853M&N=700%200&Ntt=MSD~6420%20or%20SUM~850600%20or%20MAA~6853M%20or%20PNX~500%20or%20CRN~6000~6440&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

and http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=CRN-6000-6440&N=700%200&Ntt=MSD~6420%20or%20SUM~850600%20or%20MAA~6853M%20or%20PNX~500%20or%20CRN~6000~6440&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

and http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=PNX-500&N=700%200&Ntt=MSD~6420%20or%20SUM~850600%20or%20MAA~6853M%20or%20PNX~500%20or%20CRN~6000~6440&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

Now, try and compare all three of them together, and see how they all compare. They did this in one of there catalog issues, and I found it a bit interesting....

I don't know if this link will work or not, but try it, if so, then there's the comparison already lined up for ya. http://store.summitracing.com/compare.asp?N=700+4294925143+4294839065+4294925127+115&Nao=30

[dukeboy_318]

that is interesting hotrodder, hmmm when you find that flexplate, let me know, just out of curiousity(wont matter with the stroker kit being ballanced) is a 77 400 externall or interal balanced?

[Hot_Rodder]

I couldn't say for sure, but as a guess, and only a guess, being a later year production like this, it will probably have a cast crank factory, and if so, probably externaly balanced, but that's just a guess..... As for your motor, as you've said it want matter with the Stroker kit, it will have a forged crank, and therefor should be internaly balanced... But maybe you can get an external balance set up for it though . As for the flex plate, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Here's a point of a start..... If you don't Summit Racing, these are carried by other folks. http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925134+4294839071+4294863762+4294908395+115+4294905607 This is based on a 727 TF. You can choose internal or external balance from there. And also the bolt pattern, as I've said, I've not come across the dual bolt pattern in a little while, so I'm wondering if it's still made for Mopar?

[firefighter3931]

took it to shop yesterday to have it bored, hopefully to .030 over, also any reccomendations for converter and flexplate in terms of manufacturer also im looking at the MSD 6AL ignition box with the rev limiter set at 7000, any thoughts on this box, good/bad??

Chris,

440 source carries a nice "solid style" flexlate which looks just like the B&M SFI unit : 

http://440source.com/flexplates.htm

Converter needs to be matched to the cam profile....once the cam choice is finalized then you can pick a converter. 

MSD 6AL is all you will ever need. 




Ron

[dukeboy_318]

this is the cam im looking at using
Voodoo Cam; duration in/ex 268/276, duration @ .050- 226/234, gross lift- .494/.513; pn number 60303- 132.39
rear gears will either be a 3.91 or 4.10s, havent decided yet on tires size, any one know how big i can go without tire rub and with out relocation the springs, rim size is 15x8 american racing alumunum draglites(discontinued)
Im thinking a 3500 to 4500 stall converter with anti balloning plate, just dont know who to get it from.

carb and intake
Wieland Action plus intake pn: 8008- $175.95
holley 4160 750 cfm, $265.95

looking at getting some hedders too, cheap ones at first while i break the motor in, then ill save for tti's

[Hot_Rodder]

For my converter, I'm going to go through PTC, here's there site: http://www.ptcrace.com/. As for rear tires, based on PaulG's thread about his thrid gen, pretty much the biggest rear tire you can run is a P295/50.... As for the backspace, I'd have to look that up and see what is recommended, but I think it was 5" b/s. Hope this helps some.

[firefighter3931]

this is the cam im looking at using
Voodoo Cam; duration in/ex 268/276, duration @ .050- 226/234, gross lift- .494/.513; pn number 60303- 132.39
rear gears will either be a 3.91 or 4.10s, havent decided yet on tires size, any one know how big i can go without tire rub and with out relocation the springs, rim size is 15x8 american racing alumunum draglites(discontinued)
Im thinking a 3500 to 4500 stall converter with anti balloning plate, just dont know who to get it from.

carb and intake
Wieland Action plus intake pn: 8008- $175.95
holley 4160 750 cfm, $265.95

looking at getting some hedders too, cheap ones at first while i break the motor in, then ill save for tti's

The cam is a little small for a 470ci build....unless you want to build a cruiser type motor. Something in the 240--245@.050 duration range would be better. 

http://holley.com/60305LK.asp

The PTC 9.5in converter with a set of 4.10's would work great !

For the intake i would be looking at a low rise single plane and a double pumper carburator for up top. 



Ron

[Challenger340]

Fel-Pro 1009's are fine.
Cometics, very fine surface finish or CBN finish on the Aluminium side for sure.

Why any talk of copper ?

Just my opinion, but NOT for the street. We do it for Blown track stuff, with o-ring and reciever grooves opposite, but P.I.T.A. for street, and usually leaky sooner than later.

[dukeboy_318]

For my converter, I'm going to go through PTC, here's there site: http://www.ptcrace.com/. As for rear tires, based on PaulG's thread about his thrid gen, pretty much the biggest rear tire you can run is a P295/50.... As for the backspace, I'd have to look that up and see what is recommended, but I think it was 5" b/s. Hope this helps some.

already got the rims, so thats good to go, im thinkinr 285/45s course i might be getting a relocation kit for free from a friend, so we'll see

[dukeboy_318]

this is the cam im looking at using
Voodoo Cam; duration in/ex 268/276, duration @ .050- 226/234, gross lift- .494/.513; pn number 60303- 132.39
rear gears will either be a 3.91 or 4.10s, havent decided yet on tires size, any one know how big i can go without tire rub and with out relocation the springs, rim size is 15x8 american racing alumunum draglites(discontinued)
Im thinking a 3500 to 4500 stall converter with anti balloning plate, just dont know who to get it from.

carb and intake
Wieland Action plus intake pn: 8008- $175.95
holley 4160 750 cfm, $265.95

looking at getting some hedders too, cheap ones at first while i break the motor in, then ill save for tti's

The cam is a little small for a 470ci build....unless you want to build a cruiser type motor. Something in the 240--245@.050 duration range would be better. 

http://holley.com/60305LK.asp

The PTC 9.5in converter with a set of 4.10's would work great !

For the intake i would be looking at a low rise single plane and a double pumper carburator for up top. 



Ron

Ron, will this cam still give me enough vaccum to run my brakes and stuff???

[max]

this is the cam im looking at using
Voodoo Cam; duration in/ex 268/276, duration @ .050- 226/234, gross lift- .494/.513; pn number 60303- 132.39
rear gears will either be a 3.91 or 4.10s, havent decided yet on tires size, any one know how big i can go without tire rub and with out relocation the springs, rim size is 15x8 american racing alumunum draglites(discontinued)
Im thinking a 3500 to 4500 stall converter with anti balloning plate, just dont know who to get it from.

carb and intake
Wieland Action plus intake pn: 8008- $175.95
holley 4160 750 cfm, $265.95

looking at getting some hedders too, cheap ones at first while i break the motor in, then ill save for tti's

The cam is a little small for a 470ci build....unless you want to build a cruiser type motor. Something in the 240--245@.050 duration range would be better. 

http://holley.com/60305LK.asp

The PTC 9.5in converter with a set of 4.10's would work great !

For the intake i would be looking at a low rise single plane and a double pumper carburator for up top. 



Ron

Ron, how would that set up work with a single plane Weiand 7511 intake?

if i'm not mistaken the 7511 was the ground work for the Team G Weiand intake.


dukeboy_318, if your getting a relocation kit from a friend then you might not need to cut those perches off of that rear end housing.

[firefighter3931]

this is the cam im looking at using
Voodoo Cam; duration in/ex 268/276, duration @ .050- 226/234, gross lift- .494/.513; pn number 60303- 132.39
rear gears will either be a 3.91 or 4.10s, havent decided yet on tires size, any one know how big i can go without tire rub and with out relocation the springs, rim size is 15x8 american racing alumunum draglites(discontinued)
Im thinking a 3500 to 4500 stall converter with anti balloning plate, just dont know who to get it from.

carb and intake
Wieland Action plus intake pn: 8008- $175.95
holley 4160 750 cfm, $265.95

looking at getting some hedders too, cheap ones at first while i break the motor in, then ill save for tti's

The cam is a little small for a 470ci build....unless you want to build a cruiser type motor. Something in the 240--245@.050 duration range would be better. 

http://holley.com/60305LK.asp

The PTC 9.5in converter with a set of 4.10's would work great !

For the intake i would be looking at a low rise single plane and a double pumper carburator for up top. 



Ron

Ron, will this cam still give me enough vaccum to run my brakes and stuff???

Yep, no problemo....it will idle pretty smooth in a 470 ci build and make lots of vacuum. 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Ron, how would that set up work with a single plane Weiand 7511 intake?

if i'm not mistaken the 7511 was the ground work for the Team G Weiand intake.


dukeboy_318, if your getting a relocation kit from a friend then you might not need to cut those perches off of that rear end housing.

Max, i'm not a fan of the lowdeck Wiend single planes. The inside runners (3-5-4-6) are really pinched off to clear the intake bolts. Have a look at the 383 team g and you will see what i'm talking about.


I was thinking more along the lines of a street dominator or torker. The Performer RPM dual plane wouldn't be a bad choice either but that creates throttle and kickdown linkage issues...aftermarket brackets/cables required.



Ron


Pic # 1. Check out the "pinch" on those Team G inside runners....that can't be good for flow and fuel distrubution ! 

Pic # 2. Check out the Torker and you see a big difference....much better design, inmo 

[dukeboy_318]

dukeboy_318, if your getting a relocation kit from a friend then you might not need to cut those perches off of that rear end housing.


yep thats what im thinking, if he can find it

[dukeboy_318]

Ron, how would that set up work with a single plane Weiand 7511 intake?

if i'm not mistaken the 7511 was the ground work for the Team G Weiand intake.


dukeboy_318, if your getting a relocation kit from a friend then you might not need to cut those perches off of that rear end housing.

Max, i'm not a fan of the lowdeck Wiend single planes. The inside runners (3-5-4-6) are really pinched off to clear the intake bolts. Have a look at the 383 team g and you will see what i'm talking about.


I was thinking more along the lines of a street dominator or torker. The Performer RPM dual plane wouldn't be a bad choice either but that creates throttle and kickdown linkage issues...aftermarket brackets/cables required.



Ron


Ps. Check out the "pinch" on those inside runners....that can't be good for flow and fuel distrubution ! 

Im kinda watchin a torker intake on ebay right now, might try to pick it up, also ron with that cam, ill have to upgrade my valvesprings wont i?? Im planing on geting a set of 44osource heads later next fall, but until then ill be running stock heads that are ported and polished. 

[max]

Ron, how would that set up work with a single plane Weiand 7511 intake?

if i'm not mistaken the 7511 was the ground work for the Team G Weiand intake.


dukeboy_318, if your getting a relocation kit from a friend then you might not need to cut those perches off of that rear end housing.

Max, i'm not a fan of the lowdeck Wiend single planes. The inside runners (3-5-4-6) are really pinched off to clear the intake bolts. Have a look at the 383 team g and you will see what i'm talking about.


I was thinking more along the lines of a street dominator or torker. The Performer RPM dual plane wouldn't be a bad choice either but that creates throttle and kickdown linkage issues...aftermarket brackets/cables required.



Ron


Pic # 1. Check out the "pinch" on those Team G inside runners....that can't be good for flow and fuel distrubution ! 

Pic # 2. Check out the Torker and you see a big difference....much better design, inmo 

yeah, i have one of those Weiand 7511 intakes and yes it does have those pinched areas and is a real pain in the butt to even bolt on. i just wondered if those intakes were actually any good or not on a well built engine.
if i remember correctly i thought at one time the Team G was one of the best intakes on the market, but this was several years back.

dukeboy_318, that would be the hot ticket if those spring perches were already in the right position for a spring relocation kit. 

[max]

Im kinda watchin a torker intake on ebay right now, might try to pick it up, also ron with that cam, ill have to upgrade my valvesprings wont i?? Im planing on geting a set of 44osource heads later next fall, but until then ill be running stock heads that are ported and polished. 

yes, the valve springs would need to be upgraded on those stock type heads. but to be honest i wouldn't throw alot of money at those stock heads in the form of port and polish plus more then likely the guides will need to be cut to fit the valve springs and valve seals.

when it's all said and done you will have just as much $$$ in those stock heads then what a set of good aluminum heads would cost.

[Hot_Rodder]

Im kinda watchin a torker intake on ebay right now, might try to pick it up, also ron with that cam, ill have to upgrade my valvesprings wont i?? Im planing on geting a set of 44osource heads later next fall, but until then ill be running stock heads that are ported and polished. 

FireFighter recommended the 60305LK cam. If I'm not mistaken, this is the cam that I'm gonna be running on my 500+ cid motor. I too will be running the 440 Source heads. If you check out Summit's website, under suggested parts, it lists the recommended springs, retainers, ect for that cam.... http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60305LK&autoview=sku

locks: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-77012
retainers: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-75702LUN
springs: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-73815

Those are the three recommended parts for the above cam. Hope this helps some. The above locks/retainers want work for me because I'm gonna use an aftermarket valve that want have the multiple groove lock, I will be going with the single groove lock, and I am wanting to go with a 10* lock versus the 7* design lock/retainer setup. Also don't forget, this is a 3 bolt design cam, and not a one bolt, so when ordering the timing chain set, be sure to get a 3 bolt design, and you will also need timing chain bolts...

You have not asked about carb choice yet, but I think that you may ask about it. If so, I'll recommend the same one, as far as brand, to you that was to me, and that's the ProForm carb. Here's a good start on some to check out, unless you already have a crab that you're gonna run.... http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925239+4294839063+400405+115+4294919007. As I've stated before, these links are for reference, you can go somewhere else to get these or other items, I plan on going to other places since Summit has opened a store here in GA, and that means that now I'm gonna get caught up in the GA sales tax, and I don't know anyone close by just outside of GA to avoid the sales tax.... Anyway, good luck.

[dukeboy_318]

Im thinking about a holley 4160 750 cfm dual inlet, ive worked with holleys for a while and i know them pretty well and while there not the best, id rrather stick with the trid and trusted then try something new at this time

[dukeboy_318]

which intake do you reccomend that will work with the factory throttle and kickdown linkages?? 

[Hot_Rodder]

Being that you are running a low deck block don't know what to tell you... If it were RB block I'd say the Street Dominator, unless it's offered for the B block, and have never seen it....

[firefighter3931]

which intake do you reccomend that will work with the factory throttle and kickdown linkages?? 

Chris, sorry i missed this here and i responded to your pm...but i'll post it again ;

The Street Dominator and Torker will work fine with the stock throttle/kickdown linkage. 


Ron

[dukeboy_318]

no problem, im just trying to find a street dominator, found torkers on ebay but they seem to be running pretty high, are these no longer made???

[firefighter3931]

The street dominator is no longer made....keep looking on e-bay. Not sure about the torker....it might still be available ? I would hold out for the street dominator if at all possible 



Ron