440 Based stroker, another one that is....

[Hot_Rodder]

Out of all the 440 Stroker builds going on this site and others, here's another one.....
The car:
'72 Charger SE.
Originaly 400/auto/8 3/4 rear
Will be getting a 440, and will resuse the auto, but built up some of course.....
The rear is supposed to be a 3.55 gearing, but it's an open, and that just want work...

Motor:
440 block, for now assume a .030 over
Stroker kit looking at the 440 Source 512 kit. http://www.440source.com/strokerkits.htm
High volume aluminum w.p. and aluminum housing http://www.440source.com/wpumphousings.htm
Heads, plan on reusing the 452 casting heads, can upgrade to bigger valves, and do some porting work on them if needed
Intake will be the Eddy RPM
Carb probably something like this: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D67202&N=700+4294925239+4294839063+400405+4294919007+4294784718+115&autoview=sku
I may use a carb spacer, if so it would be a 4 hole design made out of aluminum
Dist: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DCC%2D3690432&N=700+4294925143+4294839065+4294881256+400172+4294881252+4294881197+115&autoview=sku
ECU: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DCC%2D4120534&N=700+4294925143+4294839065+4294872692+4294872689+115&autoview=sku
Coil: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D8202&N=700+4294925143+4294839065+4294890813+400122+115&autoview=sku
Spark Plug wires: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D31313&N=700+0&autoview=sku
Cam: I'm looking at the Lunati VooDoo line, was thinking about this: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60303LK&autoview=sku but FireFighter said that the cam for this size motor wouldn't be enough, so I'm thinking of one of these two instead:
1: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60304LK&autoview=sku
2: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60305LK&autoview=sku
3: ? Any suggestions?
What else..... Will be using a double roller timing chain, I've heard great things about Roll Master, but one, don't know where to go to get one, and two, they are probably quite high in price.... Then again, a Stroker motor isn't cheap anyway, so.... Plan on using a 180* thermostat. Will be using a V belt set up, but the pulleys are going to be questionable, so.... I'll have more info later on once I get a better look at certain things.. Exhuast will be a 3" set up with X pipe, and probably will go with Magna flow straight through design. Headers will be 3" collector, with a 1 7/8" primaries. I already have this oil pan: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/bl7quoilpan.html, pick up tube: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/brbengine12.html, and windage tray: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/moparbrb.html. I do plan on going to a high volume oil pump with hardened shaft, should I upgrade to a bronze block bushing for the oil pump shaft? The rocker arms I plan on using are these: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D64770%2D16&autoview=sku and these shafts: http://www.440source.com/rockerarms.htm Part No: 113-1009 - Replacement 4340 Super Heavy Duty Rocker Shafts. and considering these: Part No: 200-1032 - Aluminum Rocker Holddown Set. If I upgrade the valves to a larger valve, then I'll use a one piece stainless valve, with one groove locks, the valve springs and such will be the ones also carried by lunati and recommended on the site of which ever cam is decided on. I will probably upgrade to a better harmonic damper and all, so.... What else is there? Any questions, comments, concerns, please let me know, and I'll try and get back with some answers/feedback asap. Also, the car will be a street cruiser, probably want go to the track being as heavy as it is, car does and will have power brakes, power steering, and eventualy have A/C..... again.... Anyway, let's see where it goes from there.
BTW, the hyperlinks are for reference, if I find the same thing but cheaper, guess what....

[Charger-Bodie]

i highly recommend a msd 6al for its rev limiter these motors rev VERY fast and i have bounced mine off the rev limiter a couple times allready ....cheap insurance 

[mally69]

I would most definatley would change the heads, at the least i wouold get the edelbrock  heads big gains in power, If money is no object get a set of indy ez heads

[375instroke]

...or these:

"Price: $899/set fully assembled and ready to bolt on / $699/set bare castings!!" from 440Source.com.

[Hot_Rodder]

I've concidered the 440 Source heads, granted they want be out until next year, but at this rate, this motor want be built this year.... Then again, we are pretty much at the end of this year anyway.... But before I can price heads out that are fully assebled, I would need to figure out what cam... Then again, I could get them bare, and get the rest of everything later on.

[firefighter3931]

The list looks good...allthough i have to agree with the MSD comment and a rev limiter. 

At that displacement an aluminum head is almost a requirement unless you are building a truck motor. As far as the cam you have to keep in mind that big displacement motors eat up duration so what's considered "wild" in a 440 is very mild in a 500 ci stroker. The right cam will depend on several factors....stall speed, gearing, power brakes requiring high manifold vacuum etc...


Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

Here's the deal with the 383 block based 430 cid stroker kit I was going to go with until, the 383 turned out to be a 361...... Anyway, the deal was, Eddy RPM intake, Proform carb, ect ect ect, with the .496/.513 cam listed earlier. I called up PTC told them what I have, the cam, and (assuming the numbers are right) a 3.55 geared rear axle. I've yet to pull the chunk, but I do plan on doing this b/c I recently found out that it's an open rear, and that's not gonna work to well with this kind of power this thing will probably be putting out. Anyway, the converter will be based on the cam. Once again, this car does have power brakes, and will be mostly street only. I like the sound of a rough idle, but that usualy = less vacuum and defeats the purpose of a vacuum assist power brake booster. I'd rather not have to run a vacuum pump, nor a canister, so I'd like the motor to make enough of it's own vacuum to be able to run the power brakes correctly. I'm saying I'd like to stick with the Lunati VooDoo b/c they are a great cam, and the make really good vacuum, but if this line up want cut it, then I'll cut it, and go for something else. If the 500 + c.i.d. motor needs a lot of duration, then..... Either way, based on a '72 Charger, with 727 TF, assuming 3.55 gears, custom converter matched to motor and said axle ratio, running the 512 kit, what cam? Gonna be mostly street, if not all street, with cruises to nearby shows, anything fruther, and will probably driven on a trailer, and pulled b/c gas aint cheap, and it will empty a gas tank easily esp on an extended drive like so....


Also a question about the MSD set up, though I'm sure about the answer, I want to be completely certain about it.... Anyway, I want to stick with the M.P. electronic dist set up, because of the adjustability of it, want the MSD box with rev limiter work with this dist? I still plan on running the spark plug wires and coil previously mentioned.

[SeattleCharger]

 

[Charger-Bodie]

Also a question about the MSD set up, though I'm sure about the answer, I want to be completely certain about it.... Anyway, I want to stick with the M.P. electronic dist set up, because of the adjustability of it, want the MSD box with rev limiter work with this dist? I still plan on running the spark plug wires and coil previously mentioned.

yes the msd will work with the mp dist, thats the set I personally runn on my 505 ......msd 6al,mp dist baster coil (paited black) repro plug wires and it works very well,and looks stock-ish.

[Hot_Rodder]

1hot68, thanks for the reply. I thought I had heard that you could somewhere, but wasn't 100% certain. Look like instead of the chrome box, it will be the 6AL box. But still, what about the cam? Should I go with a roller cam? I still planon running the 1.5 ratio Crane Cams dustile adjastable rocker arms with the 440 Source H.D. shafts, so..... I would like to go with a hydraulic setup either way, so... Or would I be better off trying to figure out who it was to contact, I think the guys name is Steve Slavic, but what cam manufacture I can't remember.

[firefighter3931]

MSD will work fine with the MP distributor. As for the cam.....the largest VooDoo stick would fit the bill. It will be fairly mellow in a 500 incher and make lotsa manifold vacuum for power brakes. For the Converter ; something in the 2600-2800 range is compatible with the cam and your 3.55 gearing. PTC can fix you up with the converter....their 11in street model is what you want.


Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

I've been checking out some of the other 512 builds, the ones I've read so far, each seem different. Some quite a bit more sounding than others. Anyway, So for the ign, the previous lited parts:
Distributor: Mopar Performance adjustable vacuum advanced
Coil: MSD Blaster 2
Spark plug wires: 8.5mm MSD Super Condustor wires, black
ECU: MSD 6AL box
Spark Plugs, yet to be determined, to many other undecided variables

Rotating kit will be the 440 Source 512 kit.....

Water pump will be the 440 Source high volume aluminum setup

Rocker arms, as said above in previous post.

These are certain parts...... Ect. Will the Proform 950 cfm carb be enough for this motor? Also, want an electric fuel pump have to be used? I'm planning on replacing all brake and fuel lines plus gas tank, ect, so, maybe it's time to figure exactly what's gonna be going in to supply this beast to keep it going, as for stoping, that's another topic.

[firefighter3931]

The proform 950 will be plenty and you can use a mechanical HP fuel pump with 3/8 in lines. The Carter 120gph street pump would be my choice. It's regulated at 6-7 psi which is perfect for carburated applications.


Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

I assume this fuel pump is the one you're refering to:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRT%2DM4589&N=700+0&autoview=sku

And I'm considering lines like:
http://www.paddockparts.com/Paddock/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=RGL7202SS&gift=False&0=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D4%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D%2CDodge%2FPlymouth&1=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D60%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D0%2CDodge%2FPlymouth%20Fuel&2=product%5Ffamily%2Easp%2Cfamily%5Fid%3D1105%26Tree%3D1%2CDodge%2FPlymouth%20Front%20To%20Rear%20Fuel%20Lines%20B%2DBody&HSLB=False&mscssid=0EA54259F88694D76B1A573112B03C9C
                                                &
http://www.paddockparts.com/Paddock/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=RGL7203SS&gift=False&0=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D4%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D%2CDodge%2FPlymouth&1=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D60%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D0%2CDodge%2FPlymouth%20Fuel&2=product%5Ffamily%2Easp%2Cfamily%5Fid%3D1105%26Tree%3D1%2CDodge%2FPlymouth%20Front%20To%20Rear%20Fuel%20Lines%20B%2DBody&HSLB=False&mscssid=0EA54259F88694D76B1A573112B03C9C

For the sending unit:
http://www.paddockparts.com/Paddock/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=U117C&gift=False&0=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D4%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D%2CDodge%2FPlymouth&1=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D60%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D0%2CDodge%2FPlymouth%20Fuel&2=product%5Ffamily%2Easp%2Cfamily%5Fid%3D10282%26Tree%3D1%2C62%2D74%20Dodge%2C%20Plymouth%20Fuel%20Tank%20Sending%20Unit%20Deluxe%20Kit&HSLB=False&mscssid=0EA54259F88694D76B1A573112B03C9C

The gas tank:
http://www.paddockparts.com/Paddock/productr.asp?pf%5Fid=CR10A&gift=False&0=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D4%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D%2CDodge%2FPlymouth&1=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D60%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D0%2CDodge%2FPlymouth%20Fuel&2=product%5Ffamily%2Easp%2Cfamily%5Fid%3D1065%26Tree%3D1%2C62%2D76%20Dodge%2C%20Plymouth%20Fuel%20Tank&HSLB=False&mscssid=0EA54259F88694D76B1A573112B03C9C If memory serves me correct , which I think it does , the build date is 2/72.....

Now on the return line, should I run this on this motor, or should I forget about the return line, and cap it off with something at the sending unit? If I run the return line, then the selection of the carb fuel line will change somewhat.

[Hot_Rodder]

As for the cam.....the largest VooDoo stick would fit the bill. It will be fairly mellow in a 500 incher and make lotsa manifold vacuum for power brakes.
Ron

What would you concider the "biggest" Lunati VooDoo cam?
something like this:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60305LK&autoview=sku highest lift.....
                                                                        -or-
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60304LK&autoview=sku highest duration

These are cams listed through Summit Racing, and I'm not completely sure if these are the biggest made, but based on Summit's past, I don't see why they wouldn't carry the whole VooDoo line from Lunati....

[dukeboy_318]

not a bad combo,    we'll have to line my 400 74 charger up against your 72 440 when we both get em done    Based on what you're saying, id save the exhaust mounting for later.

[firefighter3931]

Now on the return line, should I run this on this motor, or should I forget about the return line, and cap it off with something at the sending unit? If I run the return line, then the selection of the carb fuel line will change somewhat.

I would run the return line....it will keep the fuel circulating and prevent vapor lock in the hot weather.


Ron

[firefighter3931]

What would you concider the "biggest" Lunati VooDoo cam?
something like this:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60305LK&autoview=sku highest lift.....

                                                                       

Yep, that's the one 

[Hot_Rodder]

dukeboy, sounds like a plan to me, lol
firefighter, since it will help prevent the vapor lock, then no doubt about it, I'll run it. Also, thanks for the advice on the cam. When I get up with 440 Source, I'll let 'em know about the cam selection. Also I checked there site out again today, and was looking at there heads. They mentioned that there's a rumor going around that the heads will be available at a discount price with one of there stoker kits.... Wonder what's gonna come of this?

[firefighter3931]

HotRodder....check out this thread. 

Brians build is very similar to yours....i talked him into the Proform 950 and it appears he's quite happy with it. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,35989.0.html



Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

HotRodder....check out this thread. 

Brians build is very similar to yours....i talked him into the Proform 950 and it appears he's quite happy with it. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,35989.0.html



Ron

Thanks for the link. World a better place with all Mopar BB's running double pumpers eh? Yeah, Chrco had suggested this carb over the others that I have looked at. If they do, which I have no reason to think otherwise, run this well, then I'm sure it's worth it's $$$.

[dukeboy_318]

dukeboy, sounds like a plan to me, lol
firefighter, since it will help prevent the vapor lock, then no doubt about it, I'll run it. Also, thanks for the advice on the cam. When I get up with 440 Source, I'll let 'em know about the cam selection. Also I checked there site out again today, and was looking at there heads. They mentioned that there's a rumor going around that the heads will be available at a discount price with one of there stoker kits.... Wonder what's gonna come of this?

that 512 will kill me, thinking bout a 472 stroker now

[Hot_Rodder]

 
that 512 will kill me, thinking bout a 472 stroker now

If you are running a stock style 400, yeah, it probably would. Then again, knowing my luck, I'd sit there and roast the tires, lol.


BTW, anyone know where to go and get a Roll Master timing chain? I've looked online, and only place I've found so far is over seas...I was wondering if there may be a dealer here in the states? 
Two places I've found so far are:
1: http://www.kbengineparts.com/kbrollmaster.htm
2: http://www.romac.com.au/

[firefighter3931]

I've had good luck with the Comp Cams timing sets but if you want to spring for the extra dough and buy a rollmaster check with Greg at Magnum HP.


http://www.magnumhp.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36_37&products_id=300



Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

I've had good luck with the Comp Cams timing sets but if you want to spring for the extra dough and buy a rollmaster check with Greg at Magnum HP.


http://www.magnumhp.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36_37&products_id=300



Ron

Thanks for the link, didn't know they were quite that much. I figured that they would be up there some, but not quite that much. Anyway, as for the comp cams chains, which one? The Magnum or Hi Tech sets? I'm sure you don't mean the adjustable set, it's over $200.....
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925232+4294924497+4294892074+4294908110+4294908395+4294840062+4294892073+4294871499+115+400114

BTW, got to thinking, shouldn't I be looking into aluminum main caps? I'm already planning on going to main studs, but what about the caps..... I figure these kind of #'s would probably need the aluminum caps, but probably not a main girdle....