stroking a 500 block

[Steve P.]

Oh no... I didn't mean to rain on anyones parade.. Sorry if it sounded that way.. (Maybe the pain is talking). 

I just meant to say that this is very addicting. More power is just plain a must.. BUT,,, so many times I hear about people taking the car they have been driving to shows and cruise nights,(and loving every minute of it), and go hog wild on them. Next thing you know they have turned a mint ride into a full on drag car and now it is too much for the street.  This was a big topic last weekend at Big Daddy's. A few of us were shooting the chit about this subject and suddenly there was a  crowd around us all saying the same thing. One guy had his pride and joy in the car corral selling it as he cannot afford to race anymore..

To me, anyway, I would rather have the beautiful street car that has some balls and is fun to drive anywhere AND have the drag car that I don't mind taking a cutting wheel to.

Just my .02 ..  Not trying to talk anyone out of anything. Just kicking in some options....  There are tons of rusty framed, floorboards and trunks out there that are begging for a full tube frame.. 

[firefighter3931]

Oh no... I didn't mean to rain on anyones parade.. Sorry if it sounded that way.. (Maybe the pain is talking). 

I just meant to say that this is very addicting. More power is just plain a must.. BUT,,, so many times I hear about people taking the car they have been driving to shows and cruise nights,(and loving every minute of it), and go hog wild on them. Next thing you know they have turned a mint ride into a full on drag car and now it is too much for the street.  This was a big topic last weekend at Big Daddy's. A few of us were shooting the chit about this subject and suddenly there was a  crowd around us all saying the same thing. One guy had his pride and joy in the car corral selling it as he cannot afford to race anymore..

To me, anyway, I would rather have the beautiful street car that has some balls and is fun to drive anywhere AND have the drag car that I don't mind taking a cutting wheel to.

Just my .02 ..  Not trying to talk anyone out of anything. Just kicking in some options....  There are tons of rusty framed, floorboards and trunks out there that are begging for a full tube frame.. 

Just busting your balls Steve.....no need to worry. 

And you don't have to defend your position on here.     It's ok....some of us like big power and aren't scared of it 

Lmao....just funnin with ya Brother ! 



Ron

[Animal]

Don't really wanna tube the charger , tis a show n shine , runs twelve dead N/A , set the gas up (on a runway) but not got any times yet.

I'm all for building a 700/750 HP motor , that behaves itself on the street & a brute on the track , can always take it easy on the launch , then nail it.

With the set up already on the charger (dana , caltracs..........) think i'm getting there.

Are you guys building this on the 440 Mopar performance block , or the 500 mega block , both come out to 4.500 bore size , the only difference i think, is the 500 block comes with the raised camshaft.



Thanks guys.

[firefighter3931]

Are you guys building this on the 440 Mopar performance block , or the 500 mega block , both come out to 4.500 bore size , the only difference i think, is the 500 block comes with the raised camshaft.



Thanks guys.

Here are the new part numbers for the Mopar/World... Hemi & Wedge blocks. Looking at this list ; the P5153860 is the one to go with.....no rasied cam and it is a production block, not a race block. It also comes with a finished bore of 4.50 


Ron

[Challenger340]

Steve makes a real good point, and I know he ain't busting anybodys gonads.

That Charger in the PIC is an awesome ride, but it's what WE CAN'T SEE, more than what WE CAN SEE.

I've seen a ton of guys, that this becomes just like "Crack", more, more, more.

We usually like to get a guy to "slow down" for awhile.
Try and explain beforehand, or at least make sure he understands, the ramifications of that much power, or the effects on the Car, and support systems required, to "LET IT DO WORK".

Hence my requesting the info earlier in this thread, regarding fuel system/supply pump & line Dia., Tank Pickup, Header Dia. & exhaust/ Radiator & cooling/ subframe connectors, etc., etc.

The ENGINE is only 50% of the trick to going fast, if that much.


Animal;
Going easy off the line, doesn't usually result in a very good E.T. at the track.
In fact, it's the best way to get a terrible timeslip.
Not to mention that something like this, can just plain smolder the balonies at any speed !

Nailing it later, without sufficient co-efficient of friction, well,  it just ain't gonna hook once your outa the hole either !

Best "budget" to harness the Torque/HP at the outset of this program, lest the car will be a terd !
No Offense intended.

Some "minimum" CAR Suggestions/Requirements;

* Fuel system, ALL the way back & INTO the tank/delivery compatible Pump, w/nitrous best use 2 systems or a pony tank of C-14 fuel up front, NO PUMP FUEL to supplement the NITROUS. It must be real high Octane RACE FUEL on the Nitrous side !

*Aftermarket axles/caltracs
*1 helluva posi or spool better.
*Slicks/rims W/tires screwed to the rims, W/tubes.
* Frame connectors "minimum", cage as per how fast you go
*Convertor with STEEL stator/anti-ballooning plates for the juice.
*4 pinion front planetary/ 5 disc frt basket/bolt in sprag.
*Aftermarket Ignition & Timing retard/rev limiter
*supplemental "solid" engine restraint on drivers side
*cooling system. Forget belt driven W/pump too, go CSI or Mezierre
*1 wire Alternator fab'd with as short a belt as can fit.
It can be really tough keeping a stock P.S. & Alt/W-pump belt in place.

I'm forgetting lots here. There WILL be many more car upgrades required to make this thing "HAPPY" in your install.

Hope I ain't bumming anybody out, but thats the truth.

Bob out.

[Steve P.]

Thanks Bob. I think you put it on the table better than I did.. 

[Animal]

Gonna/wanna , build this motor , it's gonna be up to me what i do with the power , at least i'll have it there to start with.

The nitrous is fed via a fuel cell , with a Holley fuel pump dedicated to the plate system only. The fuel to the Demon is fed from the stoock tank , again , via a 3/8 fuel line & HV mechanical pump.

Jacobs controller looking after the nitrous.

Adam.

[Steve P.]

Above 600 HP should be fed by a 1/2" fuel line with the fuel being pushed forward by an electric pump. The system should also have a return line in it.

Also the size of the compressor you want to build should have 2 1/8 primary tube headers.

Welded frame ties at least.

[firefighter3931]

  Allthough it could be run with a 2x3.5 in header and that would just pull the torque peak down a few hundred rpm....which would fall in line with the street/strip type build. 

Electric pump and 1/2in line are a must. So are the frame connectors and a roll cage. The Dana 60 and caltracs are fine and very streetable...just back the caltrac preload off when cruising the streets.

A good aluminum rad and HV mechanical waterpump will work. My buddy uses that setup on his Blown 446 and we all know how much heat a roots supercharger throws off. 

There's no doubt that this will be an absolute monster on the street. You will have to be very careful because things can get out of control pretty fast. 




Ron

[Challenger340]

Gonna/wanna , build this motor , it's gonna be up to me what i do with the power , at least i'll have it there to start with.

The nitrous is fed via a fuel cell , with a Holley fuel pump dedicated to the plate system only. The fuel to the Demon is fed from the stoock tank , again , via a 3/8 fuel line & HV mechanical pump.

Jacobs controller looking after the nitrous.

Adam.

RACE FUEL only, in the Nitrous side Fuel Cell right ? 

Just clarifying.

[Animal]

114 race fuel in the cell , with a dose of octane boost in the stock tank (running 97 ron on street).

Whatever mods i have to do to the charger when the stroker gets built in not a problem , ie; upgrade fuel lines , fit a leccy pump to carb side.

The dedicated fuel cell feeding the nitrous is fed to the plate via a holley 110 GPH leccy pump , which is mounted in the trunk/boot , heard the fuel pumps should be @ the front (slam panel) , considering the power the motor is making @ the moment , i did'nt deem it neccesary. .

I hear what your saying regarding the upgrades for the new motor , this will be done before next season , ready for the stroker.

Ron , if the guy you pointed out can run a 9 in the charger , without a roll cage , then it sounds good to me , as i said , dont wanna fit a cage or cut the car up.

If the new motor stresses the car too much , will pull it out & stick it in summit else , at least the motor will be built & i'll have some fun with it , either way.

I am taking on board what your all saying about body twist , just can't get me head round the charger Ron's speaking about , running 9s , has he modified the car in some way?



Thanks
Adam.

[firefighter3931]

Ron , if the guy you pointed out can run a 9 in the charger , without a roll cage , then it sounds good to me , as i said , dont wanna fit a cage or cut the car up.

If the new motor stresses the car too much , will pull it out & stick it in summit else , at least the motor will be built & i'll have some fun with it , either way.

I am taking on board what your all saying about body twist , just can't get me head round the charger Ron's speaking about , running 9s , has he modified the car in some way?



Thanks
Adam.

Adam, the car i posted previously has a 10 point cage & frame connectors. Jim's car looks very stock other than the cage, hood scoop and big wheels/tires. Those are MT ET streets that he runs on the Charger at the track. The car is very scienced out and the powerplant is something to behold.....604ci Hemi with twin Dominator carbs. It runs 9.40's on motor and 8.80's on the spray....he also has a chute hanging off the back for those 150 mph blasts. 

If you don't want to put a rollbar in the car then this motor is gonna be too much, inmo. You will twist the body up and start tearing sheetmetal & bending things....seen it happen before on cars with less power than you want to make. 

I don't see what the big deal with a rollbar and frame connectors is ? I did it on mine and this was a virgin steel California black plate Charger. I didn't go full tilt....just an 8pt bar and frame connectors. If the bar is well done it will hardly be noticable and the car will handle much better and be much safer. 


Here are some pics of mine....it has a few custom bends but it'll do the trick just fine. I would consider something at least this good for yours....allthough a full cage would be even better, inmo. 

Fwiw, the cage is not welded in which is fine from a strength standpoint. Many chassis guys prefer to do them this way becasue they feel that welding will weaken the sheetmetal. The subframe connectors must be welded in however.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,1940.0.html



Ron

[Steve P.]

I could not agree any more..  VegasMike wants to make a ton more power than he is ALLREADY making. I think I have him talked into a dedicated race car for that..

[Animal]

 

Maybe pull a few horses out of it.

[firefighter3931]

Maybe pull a few horses out of it.

If you're not willing to upgrade the chassis then i would just build a nice 500hp 440 and call it a day. 

Even a 500hp motor will twist things up ...eventually. 

I've seen it more than once 



Ron

[Animal]

Got a 500 horse 440 in there @ the mo , maybe got carried away with the HP Nos , stiil gotta build something , maybe spec the short block for the high Nos , but come down on the heads & cam , if anytime i wanna upgrade the motor , it will be a simple top half job , best of both worlds.


Thanks
Adam.

[Steve P.]

I've got a nice 76' Cordoba that would make for a nice sleeper and it would not break any hearts if you tubbed, chassied and caged it..   Hey, it's a B body...   

[Animal]

Thanks for the offer Steve , you're not the only one to tell me i need another car , just can't seem to get it into me head ,i know i'm gonn ruin the charger , most would be happy with a twelve on the motor , maybe high 10s on the juice.

Gonna build the 540 , maybe trawl through the site & get some ideas on a 600 hp motor.

Feel free to chime in.

Adam.

[Steve P.]

Adam, if you are dead set on doing a monster in the Charger it is all kinds of possible. But it IS what it is. You will need to do much work on it to keep it from self distruction..  The biggest things are to tie the frame, (which you SHOULD do anyway), and a great cage.

The cage will keep the body from splitting all over and keep your glass IN the car where it belongs. Not only that but it will keep you alive when some dumb ass pulls out in front of you..

I would also suggest some monster brakes to go with your fries....   

Otherwise,,,,,  find a body you like and build a light mopar monster on steroids.....   The 62 - 65' "B" bodies are the lightest of all the B's. But I would some day like to DARE TO BE DIFFERENT and build the snot out of a 62' Chrysler 300....   Make it as light as I can and max stroke a wedge for it.....  Damn, would that be different...

[mally69]

Doyou realize that with this build your are trying to build is going to cost you at least 12,000 

[Animal]

Doyou realize that with this build your are trying to build is going to cost you at least 12,000 

Was thinkin more like twenty thousand $ , got $16000 on the 440 in there @ the mo. (£8500)

As i said , don't mind putting $$ in there for a good reliable motor.

[mally69]

Doyou realize that with this build your are trying to build is going to cost you at least 12,000 

Was thinkin more like twenty thousand $ , got $16000 on the 440 in there @ the mo. (£8500)

As i said , don't mind putting $$ in there for a good reliable motor.

well, that is good thing       I hope this thing is a mean son of a B**ch

You can buy an Indy crate motor that has 605cu.in  750HP @ 6500rpm and 775 ft lbs @4800 on pump gas for 19,050...  The 540 cu.in. not pump gas for 19,050 that has 860hp@7100 and 735ft.lbs. @5600

just some other ideas i thought id throw in since i was looking at my indy catalog

[mally69]

Or for 23,000  a 528 cu.in.  730hp 660tq pump gas HEMI

[Steve P.]

Or you could just keep what you've got and send me all that money so I can finish mine.. 

[mally69]

.well if i knew he was giving the rest of his money away then , i would have waited to order the rest of my stroker parts..