stroking a 500 block

[mally69]

Don't really know what HP/torque a 540 would make.

Maybe go for indy heads , or the Eddy Victors , just taking a stab in the dark with this , also gotta figure what cam specs , should i go roller lifters & what heads would be suitable , i'm all ears.

Going with the 440 aftermarket block , 4.500 bore size , just need help in pieceing the puzzle together. 

Seeing as the build is gonna be using a 1.67 rod ratio , should i have any concerns , it appears 1.5 or less could be problematic regarding the cylinder walls?

Will have to have enough manifold vac to run the brake servo.

Once i know what parts to use I can start ordering.

I'm all ears.

Been reading through the previous threads , all great info , also daunting @ times.

Thanks guys

What I meant was How much hp are you looking to have

[Challenger340]

Stayin tuned.

Glad you mentioned the heads , gotta stay with stock ports , already got the TTI headers buttoned up on the edy heads in there @ the mo.

Adam

OK, what tube dia. are the tti's ?

[Animal]

Hoping around 700/750 , gotta keep it tame enough for street use , really don't know , was hopeing you guys would tell me.

Adam.

[Animal]

Bob , there the TTI 1 7/8 primaries , going into 3.5 collectors (i have no two on the keyboard)

Adam.

[firefighter3931]

Ron I think you may still have some of the dyno sheets from a few years ago,
But, that stuff ain't real streetable if 'ya know what I mean ?

I may be able to offer some "suggestions".

Bob out.

Bob, i do have those dyno sheets saved. Those were some big HP/TQ combos but i'm sure that they weren't all that streetable. 

The EZ's with a MW port seem like the way to go. If you want to keep it under the hood then your only real option is to use the Indy dual plane and open it up to a max wedge port along with the heads. The Big EZ is a 325cc intake port and has the standard exhaust port location. The TTI headers are gonna limit the breathing somewhat due to the 1 7/8in primary tube....2in would be better. If this is going to be a pump gas deal you might as well build it for low end grunt and make it reliable. It will make gobs of torque anyway and will easily run in the 10's and with a small shot of spray in the 9's.

For sure you will have to cage the car because it will be fast enough to require it. Like Bob said ; with that much torque you will twist the unibody pretty easy and the doors will close funny.


Ron


I'm interested to hear what Bob comes up with for a cam profile.

[Mike DC]

 
The chassis will twist up like a pretzel if you ever actually hook this motor up. 


But suppose you wanna run around with skinny steel rims and redline reproduction bias-plys, and compete in the F.A.S.T drags  .  .  .

 

[Challenger340]

Gonna find a 545 dyno sheet, and post a parts list from the actual engine as dyno'd.

We can then "modify", make suggestions, even argue if we want, as a group "together" for fun, to detune to the 700-750 H.P. mark as mentioned.

Everybody can have opinions, like I said, more than 1 way to skin a cat !

Stay tuned, this will be FUN !

Bob out.

[Animal]

Still waiting , been up all night & missed work today.

[firefighter3931]

Gonna find a 545 dyno sheet, and post a parts list from the actual engine as dyno'd.

This one 

[mally69]

what was the build for that engine?

[Challenger340]

OK, here goes.
This is a Mopar megablock @ 4.500" bore
7.100" Rods, ARP 2000 ( can't remember exactly, but close ?)
4.280" Stroke Eagle 4340 Crank (long story later, customer supplied)
JE Pistons Custom Flat-top @ 1.45" C.D./ 5cc flycut. (again, I think I'm close)
Comp. Solid Flat-Tappet 290/.650" (customer supplied)

Remember, this is a baseline engine for discussion only. Regardless, be it understood that the level of development involved in these SR heads, was a little excessive. An "experiment" in how much we could attain, but nonetheless, Ballpark, as the law of "diminishing returns" dictates when porting.
The EZ head with MW porting should be within 25 H.P. IMO, with a better matched Cam.
Also this was at 12.6:1 Compression with the 78 cc chambers as "worked".
Dropping to pump fuel friendly 10.5:1 or so, depending upon Cam profile selected, should still put this engine easily in the mid-low 700's IMO.

OK, "PICK AWAY" , and have some fun making this streetable for this application.

I'll chime in later,

Bob out

[/img]

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[firefighter3931]

what was the build for that engine?

It's TOP Secret   

[Challenger340]

Yep, I think that's the same one Ron ?

Looks same.

[firefighter3931]

Yep, I think that's the same one Ron ?

Looks same.

Yep.....looks like the same sheet. 

Bob, any notes on the cam specs ? I see that the customer supplied the stick. 

Any ballpark numbers on the cylinder head flow ? The Big EZ's are a pretty descent head and come in at 325cc so on a 540 it should still have descent throttle response i would think. The Indy dual plane opened up to MW port would be the manifold of choice for hood clearance but this limits the carb to a 4150 base. 



Ron

[Challenger340]

Damned if I can remember alot about this one to be honest !

I better start writing shit down, but I know we used a REALLY long Rod on this one, purpose cause we were comparing this one, against another 528/540 Combo with a stock 6.76" Rods, but with 572-13 Heads and alot more flow !

I'm liking a 512 kit from 440 source, because it's relatively cheap
with the INDY "EZ" Heads, M/W port
XTQ Profile

K.I.S.S. formula ?

[Challenger340]

On our bench, the SR's came in above a "cleaned up" 440-1 Head, by about 10% I think ?
Nowadays a waste of time, just go "buy it".

By the time you take out the SR short turn to gain Volume, it's actually just forcing the flow out the backside of the Valve anyways.
It all goes "crashing" out the backside, and you actually lose on the scfm averages where ya want it for a Flat/solid.
Back to the "plug wash problems to boot !

Ended up just making a 440-1 with a pushrod "pinch". Need the Volume further back in the port.

In hindsight, I remember thinking next time, to just "tilt", and lower the short "slightly" like a BRODIX, and call it a day !

[firefighter3931]

The XTQ is a nice grind but i bet there is something better out there. 

Have you looked at the newer SQ lobes ? They're the big brother to the FL lobe family....based on an agressive .875 lifter diameter. They are more stable and have more high lift area than the older XX lobes which also work very well in BB Mopar applications. 

Animal is looking to build a 540......4.25 stroke-4.50 bore. I'm thinking long rod (7.1) for rod ratio would work well. 



Ron

[Challenger340]

Hey RON, that ain't a "big power" sheet, I got some real "DOOSIES" for ya since then.
I'll pm.

Bob out.

[Challenger340]

Everybody has an opinion, me too and I'm an old fart !

I like long rods in Mopars, especially if cylinder heads are a factor, which they usually are for a "street" build, especially with a heavy ride.

Just my opinion, 7.100"s are my choice too, even at the expense of Skirt length. As long as the guy doing the Boring/Honing ain't a "Bunyack" and pays attention to correct sizing as per application.

[Challenger340]

Yeah, ALWAYS better stuff out there, 

What's ENGLE got ?

[firefighter3931]

What's ENGLE got ?

The Engle website doesn't have any .200 duration numbers and i don't have a catalog from them....wish i did. They do look like agressive grinds....similar to the old Ultradyne sticks that are now defunct.

I like long rods in Mopars, especially if cylinder heads are a factor, which they usually are for a "street" build, especially with a heavy ride.

Just my opinion, 7.100"s are my choice too, even at the expense of Skirt length. As long as the guy doing the Boring/Honing ain't a "Bunyack" and pays attention to correct sizing as per application.

My thoughts exactly.....this is going to be a big torque type build. Those darned Chargers weigh a TON (or two)  The 4.25/7.1 rod still gives us a compression height of close to 1.5in. With a descent rod ratio and less side loading it should be livable on the street. Your thoughts ?



Ron

[Challenger340]

I can't see any trade off at all @ 1.48" Piston Ht. , or thereabouts.
Should be very durable, and those long Rod deals, with limited Cylinder Heads(relative), and, well, it just don't matter where a guy "hits the loud pedal", in range, or not,
they just plain GO !
Very forgiving with the extra Bore size !

So lets start refining this thing for the street ?

Is it a megablock for sure Animal ?

Everybody "OK" with the
4.500 bore,1.480" Compression Distance Piston, Reverse Dome Forged @ 27 cc, W/2618 Material(nitrous) Max 300 H.P. or upgrade Pin, .280" root depth, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16.
4.250 Stroke 4340 Forged Crank Arm with 2.200" Rod Journals
7.100" Rod, 2.200 Big End on the Mopar 1.007" width, & .990" Pin end
1.67 RR

Initial C.R. Calc.'s;
head = 75cc
Gskt @ .040" = 10.5 cc
.010" down from deck = 2.6 cc
Piston = 27 cc effective

Total Clrc. Volume @ 115.1 cc
Total 540 Swept Volume @ 1106.5 cc

Initial Compression Ratio(targeted) @ 10.6:1

We can raise this, but until we "nail" the bumpstick, just a good start point.

[Steve P.]

This is going to be sick.. The question I have is: What are you going to do about traction?? 4000 lb. car on max 12 inches of foot print and leaf springs??  800 ft. pounds torque BEFORE a nitrous blast??? This sounds more and more like a straight track car by the second..

I've said it before, 550 HP. on the street is more than plenty. 99 times out of 100 you are not using more than a stocker provides. Track time is another story. Prepped track. Slicks. Aluminum race wheels with screwed beads. cage. Lightened up and tightened up body. No need for A/C or a heater.. Hehehe... Now toss a 300 shot at a 700HP motor and add the wheelie bars and engine plates. BUT WAIT... We're moving into the 9's now and that crappy 6 point isn't cutting it. Nor is this little ass fuel system.. Fix all that and start thinking about a parachute.
Time sheets are looking better. The chassis is tuned in, but,, I want to go faster.. Time to remove some more weight. Crap.. There goes that beautiful new interior, all my glass and that brand new Just Dashes dash and 600 worth of gauge redo... But it will be lighter and go faster...  Maybe some fiberglass for the front end. Hell, I can't get enough cold air to the carb. anyway. Time for a pro scoop on a glass hood..

You thought I was writing a book, didn't you.....   My point is that you should look hard at what you reallly want to have in the end. Having the BEST of both worlds, reallllllly the best, normally requires 2 cars. In the end you will have a nice street car that kicks ass. Also a nasty-fast mopar that you won't mind lightening every chance you get.

One last thought. Tubbing a REAL NICE Charger takes a REAL MAN....  And allllllot of tissues.... 

[firefighter3931]

This is going to be sick.. The question I have is: What are you going to do about traction?? 4000 lb. car on max 12 inches of foot print and leaf springs??  800 ft. pounds torque BEFORE a nitrous blast??? This sounds more and more like a straight track car by the second..

Steve....there you go again raining on everyone's parade !   

So....it can't be done ?   Never say never 

Last year's pump gas drags runner up did it in a 3800lb Charger.   Full interior, No tubs, SS springs, 4.10 Dana 60 (stock rear end). He drives the car everywhere.....doesn't own a trailer. On motor it makes 850hp and he sprays it with a 300 shot.....it runs 8.80's at 150 + Mph. 

We were pitted next to him at Norwalk....super nice guy 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

So lets start refining this thing for the street ?


Everybody "OK" with the
4.500 bore,1.480" Compression Distance Piston, Reverse Dome Forged @ 27 cc, W/2618 Material(nitrous) Max 300 H.P. or upgrade Pin, .280" root depth, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16.
4.250 Stroke 4340 Forged Crank Arm with 2.200" Rod Journals
7.100" Rod, 2.200 Big End on the Mopar 1.007" width, & .990" Pin end
1.67 RR

Initial C.R. Calc.'s;
head = 75cc
Gskt @ .040" = 10.5 cc
.010" down from deck = 2.6 cc
Piston = 27 cc effective

Total Clrc. Volume @ 115.1 cc
Total 540 Swept Volume @ 1106.5 cc

Initial Compression Ratio(targeted) @ 10.6:1

We can raise this, but until we "nail" the bumpstick, just a good start point.

That looks perfect !  A set of the Big EZ's to top it off and Animal is in business.  With a descent cam this combo should make 700hp easy and still be quite streetable. Throw on a shot of juice and it will be making some big power numbers.   


Ron