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Found Out My Blocks Cracked? Screwed by Seller

Started by darrin75, October 31, 2007, 07:56:55 PM

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darrin75

It seems the engine that sold me has a cracked block, it has never been overheated when I owned it, I am mad as hell, the guy seems to not want to make it right either.  I have had a drip here a drip there ever since I had the engine installed, but got worst over time, now I am screwed.  Me and my dad inspected the block and it would appear that the block had been dobbied up, and not fixed correctly.  Is there anything I can do here.  By the way the guy lives in Nc, and I live in Ky.  He has said that for ME to bring the engine to him to fix, shit if he did this before, what makes me trust him now. :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
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Steve P.

What is dripping?? Do you see a crack?? If so, where exactly is it??
Steve P.
Holiday, Florida


The70RT

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darrin75

Did not buy it on ebay, but guy sells stuff there some times.  Its  a hair line crack that has been leakiing antifreeze, si I would assume thats good anyway, and itis located on the side of the block around the number on the block or few inches below head gasket on drivers side.
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70charger_boy

You can't really blame the seller.  If your going to buy an engine you should have asked him if it was magnafluxed.  It is usually hit or miss when it comes to these things.  If I were to buy an engine I would rebuild it before installing

Now, if you bought an engine that claimed to be rebuilt.........PUNCH him in the throat

Steve P.

I took one of my blocks in for the works last spring. It had a crack in the side between freeze plugs. I had them pin the motor. I asked around first as I had never had it done before and everyone said to go for it. I guess it is pretty common practice.. The machine shop said they pin motors all the time.. I don't remember the cost. I think it was a few hundred bucks...
Steve P.
Holiday, Florida

darrin75

Quote from: 70charger_boy on October 31, 2007, 10:50:54 PM
You can't really blame the seller.  If your going to buy an engine you should have asked him if it was magnafluxed.  It is usually hit or miss when it comes to these things.  If I were to buy an engine I would rebuild it before installing

Now, if you bought an engine that claimed to be rebuilt.........PUNCH him in the throat

It was rebulit brand new, magnaluxed and pressure tested, but I got off the phone with him and he said he uses block sill before taken to the machine shop, whether he really did this or not, i will never know, but here's the kicker.  I found bondo, thats right bondo over the crack and then painted, thats the slap in the face to me.  Damn people can't trust no one.
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70charger_boy

Yeah, you definately have a case there.  Engines were not made for Bondo.  I feel the only way to talk to this guy is through a lawyer

Oh, take lots of pics of the motor and his shitty repair

Challenger340

Try and post a picture of the crack, "pinning", or "stitching", as a repair is fairly common, and easy to do, as long as the crack doesn't travel over the deck.
Then things get a little tricky to do.

I feel your pain !

Any Prestone getting in the Oil ?  Or just exterior leak ?
Only wimps wear Bowties !

darrin75

Quote from: Challenger340 on October 31, 2007, 11:26:45 PM
Try and post a picture of the crack, "pinning", or "stitching", as a repair is fairly common, and easy to do, as long as the crack doesn't travel over the deck.
Then things get a little tricky to do.

I feel your pain !

Any Prestone getting in the Oil ?  Or just exterior leak ?

Will try to post a pic later, just exterior leak.  Also what kind of things do i need to do this repair, or is it something a pro should do?
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RD

Quote from: darrin75 on October 31, 2007, 11:34:03 PM
Quote from: Challenger340 on October 31, 2007, 11:26:45 PM
Try and post a picture of the crack, "pinning", or "stitching", as a repair is fairly common, and easy to do, as long as the crack doesn't travel over the deck.
Then things get a little tricky to do.

I feel your pain !

Any Prestone getting in the Oil ?  Or just exterior leak ?

Will try to post a pic later, just exterior leak.  Also what kind of things do i need to do this repair, or is it something a pro should do?

most machine shops can repair this crack if it simply leading to exterior leaking, not a problem.  now if the coolant is mixing with the oil, it really depends upon the location and severity of the crack.
67 Plymouth Barracuda, 69 Plymouth Barracuda, 73 Charger SE, 75 D100, 80 Sno-Commander

Challenger340

Get a guy who's done it before.

Anybody CAN do the stitching, it's getting a good final at the crack end, to prevent propagation, that needs some "knowhow".
Only wimps wear Bowties !

darrin75

what about using cast iron welding rods and a good welder.  I mean the crack just seeps out very slowly?
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The70RT

Quote from: darrin75 on November 01, 2007, 12:05:32 AM
what about using cast iron welding rods and a good welder.  I mean the crack just seeps out very slowly?

I believe you will have to use a nickel rod. I have seen where they use a small drill bit and drill a hole at each end of the crack to stop the crack from spreading before you weld it. I belive I would let a pro do that :Twocents:
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Plumcrazy

Quote from: The70RT on November 01, 2007, 05:35:55 AM
Quote from: darrin75 on November 01, 2007, 12:05:32 AM
what about using cast iron welding rods and a good welder.  I mean the crack just seeps out very slowly?

I believe you will have to use a nickel rod. I have seen where they use a small drill bit and drill a hole at each end of the crack to stop the crack from spreading before you weld it. I believe I would let a pro do that :Twocents:

:iagree:  My father in law was a welder at a nuclear power plant.  I remember him telling me cast iron is very difficult to weld.  I'd have the block pinned by someone who's done it before.

It's not a midlife crisis, it's my second adolescence.

firefighter3931

 :iagree: with the rest....repair it and go. Let a pro pin it.  :yesnod:

Bondo on the block is an obvious attempt to hide a problem and that is  :icon_bs: i'd be leaving him some nice feedback on E-bay !!!  :icon_smile_angry: :smash: :2guns: :naughty:


Ron
68 Charger R/T "Black Pig" Street/Strip bruiser, 70 Charger R/T 440-6bbl Cruiser. Firecore ignition  authorized dealer ; contact me with your needs

supserdave

Cast iron is a p.i.t.a. to weld. I welded 2 cracked bell housings. One turned out absolutely beautiful. I'm still working on the other one, it keeps cracking again right next to the weld.

If you do have to pay to get it fixed, take it to someplace that has done it before.

I would raise all kinds of hell with the seller.

Challenger340

Get the thing stitched/pinned, forget the welding.

Welding a block involves heating the thing almost redhot, damn near melting, then burning in your Rod of choice, High Nickel, or, I've heard of guys using stainless MIG wire ?.
The Oilpatch guys around here are very good at it, but they use cooling ovens for hours on end !
The real trick, is to then cool it VERY slowly, as they do, to prevent too much thermal stress fracturing.

Either way, you can see how dimensionally, the Block may require alot of fix ups, after sustaining that kind of thermal loads, for the extended periods required.
Only wimps wear Bowties !

1969chargerrtse

Quote from: The70RT on November 01, 2007, 05:35:55 AM
Quote from: darrin75 on November 01, 2007, 12:05:32 AM
what about using cast iron welding rods and a good welder.  I mean the crack just seeps out very slowly?

I believe you will have to use a nickel rod. I have seen where they use a small drill bit and drill a hole at each end of the crack to stop the crack from spreading before you weld it. I belive I would let a pro do that :Twocents:

:iagree:   Beats the rod through the block thing I got.  Sucks, but can be repaired.
This car was sold many years ago to somebody in Wisconsin. I now am retired and living in Florida.

max

the story of bad blocks and sellers knowing it just irritates me :flame:

when i sell a block or engine that i don't have paper work on i try and work with the person how buys it, meaning i give the person 30 days to have the block maged and checked and if there's a problem i make it good some way.

i have had to take 2 blocks back like that in the last 10 years i started that and to me that is only good business.

the pin and stitch is the best way of fixing a crack but there are a few shops that won't even touch one.

i have one block that has a crack between two freeze plugs and i went to a local welding supply store that sold me a brazing rod that claims to work very well with cast iron but i have yet to give it a try.


The70RT

Why would anyone patch a place they know is gonna leak soon? I know to get money but they know it's gonna be sooner than later when it takes a dump. I learned my lesson a long time ago - either hear it run or get one and completely rebuild it and have the machine shop do all the machine work and checking, then you know what you got. I don't even like remanufactured unless I heard rave reviews about them.
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70charger_boy

Quote from: The70RT on November 02, 2007, 08:38:01 PM
Why would anyone patch a place they know is gonna leak soon? I know to get money but they know it's gonna be sooner than later when it takes a dump. I learned my lesson a long time ago - either hear it run or get one and completely rebuild it and have the machine shop do all the machine work and checking, then you know what you got. I don't even like remanufactured unless I heard rave reviews about them.

:yesnod:

max

Quote from: The70RT on November 02, 2007, 08:38:01 PM
Why would anyone patch a place they know is gonna leak soon? I know to get money but they know it's gonna be sooner than later when it takes a dump.

the 1969 440 that i have in the garage came from an original 1969 440 dart and the previous owner passed away and his 20 something year old son let the block freeze and bust so instead of taking the engine out and fixing it. he did the samething and just put some sort of bondo over the crack and sold the car.

the fellow that bought the car drove it about 75 street miles and noticed a wet spot on his garage floor and took it out. i ended up doing so trading on it and sure enough you could not only see the gob of bondo but when he sprayed paint over it the paint didn't even match the same color of orange on the block. :eyes:

to be very honest about your statement, money seems to be the deciding factor and more of it happens then what people relize and ebag is great place to find crap that no one local to them wants or they can sell it to someone they don't have to deal with when the problem is found.

The70RT

Quote from: max on November 02, 2007, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: The70RT on November 02, 2007, 08:38:01 PM
Why would anyone patch a place they know is gonna leak soon? I know to get money but they know it's gonna be sooner than later when it takes a dump.

, money seems to be the deciding factor and more of it happens then what people relize and ebag is great place to find crap that no one local to them wants or they can sell it to someone they don't have to deal with when the problem is found.

Yeah they wouldn't want a mad local harrasing them. I bought a motor locally one time and it was a piece of crap and was sold as good. I dropped it off in his drive late one night. I guess the next morning it somehow got hung up under the back of his truck when he was backing out  :D
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70charger_boy


bull

Quote from: The70RT on November 02, 2007, 08:38:01 PM
Why would anyone patch a place they know is gonna leak soon? I know to get money but they know it's gonna be sooner than later when it takes a dump. I learned my lesson a long time ago - either hear it run or get one and completely rebuild it and have the machine shop do all the machine work and checking, then you know what you got. I don't even like remanufactured unless I heard rave reviews about them.

Even the "hear it run" theory is flawed. I bought an IH 345 for a Scout I once had that a guy had strapped to a pallet or something so I could hear it run. Sounded great. I loaded it up, drove the 40 miles back home and then my brother and I spend a good 12 hours installing it. I took off down the road for a little test drive and at about 45 mph the thing started knocking like a woodpecker -- let me tell you, I was one red-faced SOB after spending all that time and money on nothing. After that experience I really don't think it's worth it to bother with used engines. Too much of a gamble IMO.

But if a guy says an engine is rebuilt and yet tried to hide a crack in the block with bondo (of all things) I think he needs to have his a$$ put in the ringer. This is just me but I think have someone stitch the block as suggested or try to V out the crack and use some JB Weld on it -- just a temporary fix until this clown pays for what he did.

Challenger340

Sorry for your pain, that just plain sucks, the guy should be shot with a lump of his own Poo !

Just trivia for anybody interested.

Given that these stock blocks are getting so old now, and core history is unknown at best these days, heres what we do prior to accepting a "core" for machining, NOW !

We Mag first of course, all critical areas, however, we have been stung by writing "no evidence found", proceeding, and later found somebody goofed !
Expensive warranty !
We ain't perfect !

Anyways, last 10 years or so, we ALWAYS bolt on a couple of Torque-plates to the decks with head gaskets after rough Boring & Decking, and use a jig we built to bolt on in place of the water pump housing with a "tire valve".
We then pressure it up with the frost plugs in place to around 30 psi, watch the gauge, and spray soapy water anywhere suspicious.

** :2thumbs:
Not that everybody has a coupla Torque-Plates kicking around for a 440 Mopar, but you guys can all find a decent Cyl. Head, Bolt it on, and build your own block-off plate with a Tire Valve, cover the 2 water pump holes at the front of the block,  to do one side at a time.

We found the extra hour in Labor on each engine(our expense), far more beneficial, than standing red-faced with a "puddle of Prestone" at our feet in the Dyno room, in front of our "money spending" guys !
I hate Prestone "soakers" on my sneakers !
Step SLOP, Step SLOP, Step SLOP,
Geeeez !

OR, You'd be amazed at where these things can leak internally !
"porosity" is a factor.

Get an old Cyl. Head, and pressure up the water jackets FIRST before proceeding !

Damn !

I wrote another NOVEL !

Awfully sorry 'bout that again Fellas
Bob out.
Only wimps wear Bowties !

max

Quote from: Challenger340 on November 03, 2007, 10:40:59 AM
Sorry for your pain, that just plain sucks, the guy should be shot with a lump of his own Poo !

Just trivia for anybody interested.

Given that these stock blocks are getting so old now, and core history is unknown at best these days, heres what we do prior to accepting a "core" for machining, NOW !

We Mag first of course, all critical areas, however, we have been stung by writing "no evidence found", proceeding, and later found somebody goofed !
Expensive warranty !
We ain't perfect !

Anyways, last 10 years or so, we ALWAYS bolt on a couple of Torque-plates to the decks with head gaskets after rough Boring & Decking, and use a jig we built to bolt on in place of the water pump housing with a "tire valve".
We then pressure it up with the frost plugs in place to around 30 psi, watch the gauge, and spray soapy water anywhere suspicious.

** :2thumbs:
Not that everybody has a coupla Torque-Plates kicking around for a 440 Mopar, but you guys can all find a decent Cyl. Head, Bolt it on, and build your own block-off plate with a Tire Valve, cover the 2 water pump holes at the front of the block,  to do one side at a time.

We found the extra hour in Labor on each engine(our expense), far more beneficial, than standing red-faced with a "puddle of Prestone" at our feet in the Dyno room, in front of our "money spending" guys !
I hate Prestone "soakers" on my sneakers !
Step SLOP, Step SLOP, Step SLOP,
Geeeez !

OR, You'd be amazed at where these things can leak internally !
"porosity" is a factor.

Get an old Cyl. Head, and pressure up the water jackets FIRST before proceeding !

Damn !

I wrote another NOVEL !

Awfully sorry 'bout that again Fellas
Bob out.

Challenger340, that's a very good peice of advice and to be quite honest i was thinking about that earlier today. i have that one block that i'm going to try and fix but i wasn't sure just how to go about testing it before i built the engine.
thanks for posting that. :2thumbs:

poppa

Hopefully this will help you with your problem . Been there,done that.    http://www.locknstitch.com
God must love stupid people....he made a sh**load of 'em....

Matco tools...guaranteed for a lifetime. Just not a human lifetime.

poppa

Or      http://www.muggyweld.com/   Haen't tried but ......maybe something to look into???
God must love stupid people....he made a sh**load of 'em....

Matco tools...guaranteed for a lifetime. Just not a human lifetime.


The70RT

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