can I do it myself????

[RECHRGD]

cool beans bob. so how much snow did ya get up there? we acually avoided getting any accumulation but did get several fluries over the weekend. i am absolutly sick of winter.

We got about an inch Friday night and another on Saturday that melted away.  Got up this morning to more coming down, but should all melt away by this afternoon.  Hopefully that's the end of it, but still no big warm up in site.  The shop still stinks to much of gas to spend much time in there.  I'm going to go up and open it all up even though it's cold.  Guess I'll just stand guard to be sure no meeeeses get in there.  Bob

[RECHRGD]

OK, here's another dumb question.  I finished cleaning up things and gasket scraping today.  I'm ready to start assembly of this thing now.  Problem is; with Spring coming so late, there is a ton of work now required around the house and orchard, along with the never ending honey do list that needs attending to in order to keep the peace.  I know you guys could throw this thing back together in a day with no problem.  But, being the novice that I am, more time will be required.  That said, I'm doing a little every day or so.  Will the cam lobe lube still be OK if it stays on the cam for a few days or longer?  I know that the cam/lifters and other stuff must be lubed/oiled as it goes together.  What if this process is slower than normal?  Will I run into problems if the engine sits for a week or so before the start up happens.  Thanks, Bob

[Runner]

i think it will be fine bob, lots of motors get put together and then sit for a bit before they get installed and fired up....  i hate yard work, id do the car instead     

[RECHRGD]

i think it will be fine bob, lots of motors get put together and then sit for a bit before they get installed and fired up.... i hate yard work, id do the car instead

Thanks Mike.  I hate yardwork as well, but gotta keep the peace, if you know what I mean!  I'll keep you posted.  Bob

[firefighter3931]

Bob, i have to agree with Mike. The moly paste lube will stick on the cam/lifters for awhile. When lubing the lifters just cover the bottoms...not the sides. 



Ron

[RECHRGD]

OK, made a little progress this afternoon.  Got the cam in and timing set on.  The timing set is one of the Comp. type that you have all kinds of optional key slots in the crank gear in order to advance or retard the cam up to 8 degrees either way.  I put it in at zero degrees for the cam (outside row of numbers) with the cam gear dot looking straight down at it with piston #1 at TDC.  Assuming you guys give me a thumbs up on that, I'll proceed dropping in the lifters (currently soaking in oil) tomorrow and maybe even get a head on.  I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to jack up the engine to get the driver's side head properly torqued.  I've decided to forgo the valve clearance test since the pistons are further down than we originally thought.  Seems like too much of a pain and probably not necessary in my case.  As long as the degreeing comes in good and it spins easy I'm thinking I should be good to go.
How am I going to prelube this thing before startup?  Mancini sold me a square rod that is supposed to attach to a drill, but it doesn't match up with anything that I can see.  Anyway, it's good to start seeing this go back together rather than the other way.  Thanks, Bob

[firefighter3931]

Sounds good Bob. As long as you used the mark for straight up it will be fine....no advance or retard needed. The Comp stick has 4* of advance built in so it will be 4* advanced just by installing it "straight up".

The priming rod goes into the oilpump in place of the distributor drive which must be removed. The rod gats attached to your drill and is turned counterclockwise. You will feel the drill bog down as oil pressure increases. You might have to rotate the engine over by hand to get oil to the rocker arms. The #4 cam bearing supplies oil to the top end and the holes must be lined up for that to happen. Once you see oil coming out of the rocker arms/shafts you are ready to go. 



Ron

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Ron!  I thought that mancini had sold me the wrong priming rod.  It looked square when in the package, but after I really looked at it, it was the right one.  I got one head on yesterday (not yet torqued) and will tackle the hard one later today.  The ARP lube says it's good to 60 pounds and after that use motor oil.  Seeing that the heads will be torqued to 70 lbs. I guess I'll just use oil.  Seems kind of odd.  Bob

[Runner]

bob, i just checked my notes i have  and dwayne told me that with arp bolts and e-heads he uses 30w oil and torques the heads to 80 foot pounds.

[RECHRGD]

bob, i just checked my notes i have and dwayne told me that with arp bolts and e-heads he uses 30w oil and torques the heads to 80 foot pounds.

Thanks Mike!  The directions that came with the heads say to torque to 70 lbs..  I wonder if the 80 lbs. was for different gaskets??  Bob

[Runner]

bob, i just checked my notes i have and dwayne told me that with arp bolts and e-heads he uses 30w oil and torques the heads to 80 foot pounds.

Thanks Mike!  The directions that came with the heads say to torque to 70 lbs..  I wonder if the 80 lbs. was for different gaskets??  Bob

nope same gaskets, same heads    doesnt arp offer a different spec than the heads?  as i remember, thats why i asked him what i should torque them to. 

[RECHRGD]

bob, i just checked my notes i have and dwayne told me that with arp bolts and e-heads he uses 30w oil and torques the heads to 80 foot pounds.

Thanks Mike!  The directions that came with the heads say to torque to 70 lbs..  I wonder if the 80 lbs. was for different gaskets??  Bob

nope same gaskets, same heads doesnt arp offer a different spec than the heads? as i remember, thats why i asked him what i should torque them to.

HMMMM, I'll go check the ARP paperwork and let you know.

[RECHRGD]

Nothing is stated in the papers that came with the bolt set, as to what they should be torqued at.  I guess you torqued them to 80lbs. and had no problems?  Bob

[RECHRGD]

Nothing is stated in the papers that came with the bolt set, as to what they should be torqued at. I guess you torqued them to 80lbs. and had no problems? Bob

I take that back!!!  Under Preload (torque) Recommendations; it says "Torque values are based on 75% of the fasteners yield strength.  Use the manufacturers torque sequence but do not use the engine manufacturers torque specs.  Torque the bolts to 65 ft. lbs. for ARP MOLY ASSEMBLY LUBRICANT or torque to 85 ft. lbs. with 30wt motor oil."  So I guess the 80lbs. that Dwayne recommended makes sense.  I never would have guessed that the bolt manufacturers recommendation would trump the heads manufacturers.  Thanks, Bob

[RECHRGD]

OK, heads are on and torqued.   I'll get going on the valve train tomorrow after some honey do's and converting the tractor from a snow blower to a lawn machine.  One question that I keep forgetting to ask-----What holds the cam in place???  It just floats in there and the timing chain seems to be the only thing holding it in place.  The timing chain loosens with age.  It seems like there should be something more substantial in there to keep everything in order.  Thanks, Bob

[firefighter3931]

OK, heads are on and torqued.   I'll get going on the valve train tomorrow after some honey do's and converting the tractor from a snow blower to a lawn machine.  One question that I keep forgetting to ask-----What holds the cam in place???  It just floats in there and the timing chain seems to be the only thing holding it in place.  The timing chain loosens with age.  It seems like there should be something more substantial in there to keep everything in order.  Thanks, Bob

Bob, the gear driven oil pump drive keeps the cam in place. The lifters are also slightly tapered which also keeps things centered where they should be. 


Ron


Ps. 80 ftlbs with oil sounds about right to me on the head torque. 

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Ron!  I should have thought about that, but it's not installed yet, so, out of sight out of mind.  I've ground to a halt again.  I installed the valvetrain yesterday.  This morning I started to do the preload adjustments and got a little scared.  When turning the engine with the breaker bar, after about 1/4 turn, it started to get hard to crank.  I was afraid that a valve was hitting so I stopped right there.  I know I questioned the length of the rods awhile back, but didn't think there would be an issue with the adjustable rockers.  The rockers were installed with the adjusters backed off as much as possible, but even so, some of the rods were hard against the rockers when I torqued it all down.  I backed off on the hold downs a little to relieve some pressure, but it still felt too hard to turn to so I left it as is.  Oh, and now I can't turn the engine in the opposite direction because the 1 1/4" bolt just loosens up.    Could it be that, because the springs are now in the picture that it would be normal to feel different levels of resistance when turning the engine?  I hope so.  Also, Cranes literature suggests that you go one full turn on the adjuster after it's tight on the rod and Comps.  Says 1/8 turn.  Who's right?  Thanks, Bob

[Runner]

hey bob, do you have the sparkplugs installed?   if so you might want to take them out,  it will make turning the motor over much easier.     the first time lash can be a bit tricky. i like to have the adjusters backed off as far as absolute possible when im doing them for the first time,   but be carefull when turning the motor over,  the push rod can slip out of the adjuster.    your going to have some valves open no mater how far you back off the adjuster.

 

     

[RECHRGD]

No spark plugs are installed.  I'm using the Smith Brothers adjusters and, as stated, they were backed off as much as possible.  How much muscle can I put on the bar before I know I have a problem or start bending things?

[Runner]

  with the plugs out id think it should turn over faily easy.     id pull the rocker gear off and see if it turns over easily again,     look and see if the any valves seem to be slightly lower than the the others.     if you got the cam timing off,  you might have a valve open when its not suposed to be or you might  not have enough piston to valve clearance.      might not be anything wrong at all.


     how loose are the rockers that are backed off with the valves closed?

[RECHRGD]

The rods are barely into the sockets of the closed valves.  The cam timing seemed so straight forward, I don't know how I could have screwed that up, :shruggy:but I'm capable of anything.  I'll pull the valvetrains back off hopefully tomorrow and start over.  I'm done for today.  Thanks, Bob

[firefighter3931]

Bob, here's a chart to help you set the preload. Basicly you bring the piston to TDC on number 1 and set the valves in order as they appear on the chart. Your balancer needs to be indexed every 90 degrees to use this method.

Can you post a pic of your timing chain with the gears lined up ?


Ron

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Ron!  I'll see if I can post a picture a little later.  I was just looking at an older thread about a "Lazy 440".  There was some differing opinions on how the dots should line up.  My cam gear dot is pointing at 6 O'Clock and the crank dot is at 12 O'Clock with #1 at tdc compression stroke.  Should the cam gear be at 12 O'Clock?  Also, when this gets sorted out and I'm back on track, what do you think I should set the preload at.  Thanks, Bob

[firefighter3931]

Bob, you have it right....the dots should be facing each other with #1 at TDC. Make sure you use the correct position for the lower (crank) gear as they usually come with multiple keyways for advance/retard/straight up etc...

What timing set did you get ? Multiple keyways ?


Ron

[RECHRGD]

Yes, multiple keyways!  There is an inner and outer set of degree numbers.  I used the outer '0' degree as the cam degree.  The manufacturers guy on their tech line said the inner numbers were for the crank degrees,  Bob