can I do it myself????

[RECHRGD]

Ron, I've still got a ways to go, but have a question----I was reading an article in a past mopar action about rocker arms.  They implied that the aluminum rocker arms are a "maintenance" item and could distort in time.  I assume that they were talking about a more radical build than mine with some heavy duty springs.  Those Crane Gold units aren't cheap and I hope that they are not something that will have to be replaced after a given amount of miles.  Are the springs on the Eddy (mopar) heads strong enough to cause me grief ?   Thanks, Bob 

[firefighter3931]

Those Crane Gold units aren't cheap and I hope that they are not something that will have to be replaced after a given amount of miles.  Are the springs on the Eddy (mopar) heads strong enough to cause me grief ?   Thanks, Bob 

Bob, every part has a fatigue life. On a mild combo like yours running a hudraulic cam with 125lbs on the seat and 330lbs open those rocker arms will last for years. The Golds don't hold up well to big roller cams and high spring pressures like in the 500+ range. You're fine. 


Ron

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Ron!  That's what I thought.  Heads should be here in a month or so.  All is well.   Bob

[RECHRGD]

OK, I want to be sure I'll have everything I need once the heads arrive and I dig into this.  I've got the 3 bolt timing set to go with the 3 bolt cam.  I don't see any bolts with either piece so I will need three of them----ARP 244-1001 ??.  Should be cam bearings be replaced ??  If so, can that be done with the engine still in the car ??  Any special tools ??  Degree wheel ,etc..   Thanks, Bob

[firefighter3931]

Bob, i prefer to degree the cam in but to do that you need a degree wheel and a dial indicator/magnetic base and  a piston stop. The procedure is outlined in the link below :

http://compcams.com/Technical/Instructions/Files/145.pdf

You are correct on the cam bolts :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ARP%2D244%2D1001&autoview=sku


You will also need a new intake manifold gasket set, head gaskets and a timing cover gasket set.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FPP%2D2716&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FPP%2D1009&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FPP%2D1215&autoview=sku


***also check with Mancini on the head bolts....those will probably need to be swapped out as well.



Ron

[Runner]

you may also want to consider swaping the crane rocker adjusters screws for smith brothers adjuster screws.   you can also save a pile of money by using the 8519 rebiulder head gasket.   dwayne told me in my aplication they would work just fine..... and they have.

[RECHRGD]

Thanks for the links Ron !  Very good info there.  It looks like I've got everything except the cam bolts and the timing cover gasket.  I assume that cam bushings are not an issue.

Mike-- Dwayne recommended the same 8519 gaskets for me and I bought them and the ARP head bolts through the General Store up here.  Smith Brothers?  Are those the same old bearded guys that sell cough drops?

Another question--- Just how critical is it that the engine fires up right away on the cam break-in sequence?  Knowing that timing, cooling and fuel supply have all been messed with there's a good chance of something being just a little off.  Can I spin the starter a bit to get fuel into the system?  What if it starts to overheat ?  Can it be shut off and restarted without damage to the cam?  Any suggestion on base line jetting for start-up?  Ooop's, that was more than one question.       Bob

[Runner]

hey bob,  smithbrothers makes pushtubes and adjuster screws.   crane rockers  have had a history lalty of haveing soft adjuster screws. i run the crane iron rockers and decided it was cheap insurance to replace the screws and nuts with smith brothers adjusters.    heres a really bad pic of the side by side 
http://www.pbase.com/runner1971/image/48226331        i think the adjusters and nuts were about 65 bucks   http://www.pushrods.net/  .    as for the carb,  sence you got the new main body i would either wait to do it until after you get the car up and running with the new heads so you know your starting it with a known good carb. or do it before you pull the motor down  again so you know the carb is working right and not leaking at start up.     the supplied jets that come with the mainbody should put ya pretty close on the jetting.   

       it is pretty important to get that thing fired and up to rpm as quickly as you can. the cam gets oil by getting splashed up from the crankshaft rotating and slinging it up onto the lobes.   if the engine gets hot, shut it down and let it cool down then resume your brake in procedure.  i have a big fan i put infront of the car,  but if the weather is like it is now,  i dont think you wil have a problem.   as for the timing,    you should be able to set the timing at about 10-20 degrees  btdc with the engine not running.  just set the timing mark at 15 degrees btdc then rotate the distributor until the rotor points to #1 plug wire.  that should get it in the ball park. some people say to get the motor started, set the timing then do the cam brake in.  i would get the car started and right up to rpm, once its idleing at 2k i would set the timing to about 34 degrees and then finish the cam brake in and then set the timing to about 36 total.     you can also fill your carb fuel bowls right though the sight glass holes so it has gas from the start.     i had a heck of a time getting my 383 in my satellite to fire up. i never had any issues.      thats my opinion anyway.

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Mike !!!!  Good stuff there.  I'll look into the Smith Brothers adjusters.  Stay warm down there in the banana belt.     Bob

[firefighter3931]

Bob,

Mike pretty well covered it and like he said...get it up to 2000rpm right away. The cam/lifters are splash lubed off the rotating assembly so it needs some RPM for adequate lubrication. Comp Cams sells a break in additive....get some and a good quality oil like Valvoline vr-1 20/50. You will want to replace the oil and filter immediately after breakin and again at 500 miles....normal intervals after that.

I agree with Mike on priming the carb....this will insure immediate fireup. You don't want to be turning the engine over and over because this will wipe the moly paste off the lifter faces. An easier way to fill the bowls is by using the vent tubes with a small funnel. With the bowls full the engine will run long enough to allow the fuel pump to prime and you will have no interruptions during your cam breakin.



Ron

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Ron !  Dwayne sent me the additive along with the cam, so I should be set there.  I know I'm not supposed to run synthentic oil during the break-in period.  I've been running Mobile 1 10/30 for about 25,000 miles with no problems.  Do you have a better choice of oil to go to after 500 miles?    Bob

[Chryco Psycho]

I would wait 3000 miles before using synthetic again , Mobil 1 is good though

[Runner]

id run vr1 20-50 valvoline from now on or shell rotella t . if your going to run mobil 1  be careful, they have 2 different lines one with a low anti scuff package, i dont remember how they market the 2 different lines though.     my friend with the pantera is a mobil dealer  i forgot what he told me about them. i choose the vavoline route.

[firefighter3931]

The regular Mobil one passenger car formulation has reduced anti wear additives thanks to the EPA.  The old M1 15-50 used to be good oil a few years ago but not anymore. 

The news isn't all bad though....M1 sells a motorcycle oil that does have lots of extreme pressure additives so if you stay with the Mobil line that is the one to use. Amsoil also is a descent oil as is Royal Purple Racing.

If you go to the "Bob's the oil guy" website and look around.... there is lots of good information. 



Ron


Ps. Check out this Amsoil tech bulletin....looks like good stuff ! 

http://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/TSB_Flat_Tappet.pdf

[RECHRGD]

HMMMMM, I had no idea that Mobile 1 had changed their formula.  Good info.  That Amsoil does sound good.

Good to hear from you Neil !!   I thought you had fallen off the face of the Earth, or at least had frozen solid in place up their in Calgary.      Bob

[RECHRGD]

I took off the carb today and did the ProForm main body upgrade so I can test it out to be sure it's OK at start-up after the new cam and heads are installed.  There was a bag with 2 air bleeds in it.  A sticker on the bag states "If your orginal carb has 2 idle mixture screws, remove the #72 bleeds (rear) and install these".  Being that my carb has 4 idle adj. screws, I did nothing with them.  Before I install the carb, I thought I'd make sure with you guys that nothing needs to be done with regard to air bleeds.  Other than that, the main body switch was pretty simple.   Thanks,  Bob

[firefighter3931]

Bob, as long as you follow the directions you will be fine. The bleed change is for carbs with 2 corner idle so you did right by leaving the factory installed air bleeds in the main body. 

The PF mainbody is really designed for a 4 corner idle carb...allthough they will work ok with the older style 2 corner idle Holley's. The reality is that they work MUCH better with a secondary metering block that has an idle adjustment provision. 


Ron

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Ron!!  I've been under the weather for a couple of days, so haven't started it yet.  I don't want to run it too long with the bigger jets in there.  I figure that right after I run it up to temperature ( if the carb works) I'll change the oil to what I'm going to use during the start-up along with the additive.

I was reading the cam installation instructions that came with the cam.  They go into alot of detail about how to check the piston to valve clearance and that with a hydraulic set-up you need to use solid lifters to do this check.  I don't really want to buy solid lifters just to check the clearances.  The new cam has a total lift of .526 on both the intake and exhaust.  The old one is somewhere in the .445 range.  All I know about the pistons is that they are TRW forged flat tops.  I won't know if they have valve reliefs in them until I pull the head.  I know that the block was decked in the original build, but have no idea how much.  Anyway, I don't know if I have a question here other than; if this exercise is necessary, can I buy just one solid lifter somewhere and do one cylinder at a time, or would one cylinder tell the tail for all the others?     Thanks, Bob

[firefighter3931]

Bob, you can puchase a pair of solid lifters for the piston to valve clearance check....no need for a full set. Just check intake/exhaust on #1 cylinder. 

If yours has the 6-pack pistons it will still have lots of piston to valve clearance as long as the cam is properly installed on the correct intake centerline. I have the same pistons in mine with a much bigger cam and the clearance was well within acceptable limits. 


Ron

[Runner]

bob, lift isnt were you have a problem with piston to valve clearance.  its your duration and cam timing .  anytime the lobe is at max lift the piston is way down in the cylender.  while it most likly woont have a problem is always nice to check those thing just in case you diidnt get the cam in quite right.  one of those better safe than sorry deals.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Bob, you can puchase a pair of solid lifters for the piston to valve clearance check....no need for a full set. Just check intake/exhaust on #1 cylinder. 

hmmmm    I always just used an old hydraulic lifter and filled it with resin so it wouldn't collapse   

[RECHRGD]

Thanks Guys !


hmmmm I always just used an old hydraulic lifter and filled it with resin so it wouldn't collapse

RT-- I like the way you think !

[firefighter3931]

bob, lift isnt were you have a problem with piston to valve clearance.  its your duration and cam timing .  anytime the lobe is at max lift the piston is way down in the cylender.  while it most likly woont have a problem is always nice to check those thing just in case you diidnt get the cam in quite right.  one of those better safe than sorry deals.

The valve timing is more critical with respect to piston/valve clearance. With a cam that small ; if you're running into clearance problems the cam is installed wrong. This is why i prefer to degree the cam in to the correct centerline....then there is no guessing. 

The last thing you want to do is install the cam in a retarded position....this will make the car sluggish off the line. 



Ron

[RECHRGD]

OK, today I started it up with the new ProForm main body installed on the carb.  All was well with no leaks, so I warmed it up and changed the oil.  Put in 6 quarts of Valvoline VR 20/50 racing oil and the Comp.Cam additive.  So I'm getting closer to getting something done.  I think I'll yank the tranny tomorrow and take it to the place that did the rebuild on it to take care of some "issues" with their work and have it gone through.  I probably won't start tearing things apart until I have the heads in hand and that may be after the holidays.  Comp. Cams recommends to replace the distributor gear with a new cam.  I've got about 30K mile on my Mallory Unilite.  It looks like the gear is almost half of what the whole distributor costs.  If you guys agree that a new gear is needed I may as well get a whole new unit.   Bob

[firefighter3931]

  Comp. Cams recommends to replace the distributor gear with a new cam.  I've got about 30K mile on my Mallory Unilite.  It looks like the gear is almost half of what the whole distributor costs.  If you guys agree that a new gear is needed I may as well get a whole new unit.   Bob

Maybe on a Chevy the gear might need to be changed on the distributor....but on a BB mopar the gear is attached to the oil pump drive. 

Bob, your distributor is fine....no need to replace it. When your engine was overhauled did they install a new oil pump drive ?



Ron


Ps. Here's a pic of the oil pump drive. The distributor shaft slides into the OP drive....