My ebay nightmare and the link, not planning on payment from seller

[1969chargerrtse]

For those of you that have been following my ebay nightmare, I finally dug up the Link to the car I bought.  You can see the fender tag and the options listed of which several are not only not on the car, but not possible when the car was built as the option, like the code for hood pins was not on cars until April and my car was built around Nov and the tag is date 1/07.  I bid on that car with the idea that tag was correct for the car, it's not.  Without any harsh words for me again, any ideas above "you should take him to court"  Know of anyone, you agree a false tag is a big deal, or let it go?  Any ideas appreciated.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch-completed.ebay.com%3A80%2F230166001198_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQcatrefZC5QQfclZ3QQfisZ2QQfromZR7QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsacatZQ2d1QQsofocusZbsQQfviZ1&item=230166001198

The last # starting with 230 is the item # if the Link doesn't work.  I have not heard from him or ebay, we agreed he would kick back 2,000.00 to help with the cost of the motor blowing up but really on the Principal of the tag being incorrect and now I have a car with no tag.  Be nice    I'm not planning on seeing any refund here.

[TUFCAT]

Truly sorry. It appears the ebay seller took you for being inexperienced with Mopars.  My initial thoughts from 30 seconds of scanning that eBay ad -  that was a nightmare!!  I would have been concerned by the unpainted fender tag held on by the wrong screws, not to mention the wrong stripe (misplaced R/T logo) wrong air cleaner, valve covers, breather, trunk not painted body color, wrong exhaust tips, and missing the typical vinyl top with the SE package.  What about that description???  Just empty calories.... Nothing. Did you ask the seller any specific questions?? Do you have an email chain to document any details not mentioned in the ad?  Sorry, but you asked for an opinion....based on the sellers description of the car and what you got....he said it was a real SE...not a real R/T...no VIN in the listing.    I really don't want to make you feel bad.....maybe you DO need to initiate a lawsuit?? - I'm no lawyer.

He also mentioned that car is....."equipped with the code TR 440 V/8 NOM"  - - - what is  code TR?  Does NOM mean: "non original motor"? Who knows? 

Do the title and dash VIN match the "XS29" and the "197471" on the fender tag?

[chargerman68]

i would just cut and take what u got

[A34]

I would be concerned the car is a real R/T at this point. Have you verified the VIN number on the dash with the one on the core support, trunk lip and title? Silly question - does it have a broadcast sheet? Have you looked for one?

I personally think it's a big deal with a fake fender tag, but what you can do about it, I don't know. Is the car overall a nice car? If so, maybe you just drive it and enjoy it.

How far away do you live? Is a visit in person warranted? Not suggesting any violence, but just to let the guy know you won't go away quietly until a fair solution is reached.

[The70RT]

He has this in the auction -

1969 Dodge  :  Charger   
1969 CHARGER RT/SE 440 BEAUTIFUL CA CAR NO RUST DODGE


Presenting for your pleasure:  1969 Dodge Charger RT/SE 440.  This is a beautiful automobile and is the real deal Special Edition.

He doesn't say real R/T but he's saying it is an R/T with that in the discription isn't he

[BMOTOXSTAR]

 

[TUFCAT]

If the car was not a "real R/T" ...the seller had an obligation to point it out.  The ad was very misleading. 

[1969chargerrtse]

It's a real RT/SE, the radiator support vin and trunk lip match the XS29, the roof panel has never had a Charger logo  on it, only SE holes for the badge are there.  I learned on this site SE does not mean vinyl top, and under the body lines near the roof are th trim moldings for a vinyl top so it did have one at one time.  The TR on the motor was a mistake in the sense in was a T for Truck block but all the other part #'s match for the R/T engine.  I already have a 69 440 cast block, steel crank etc.  Bottom line, fender tag was repro and incorrect, should I push it, or let it go, that is the question?  Over all the car is great, rare options, super rust free body, it's just the principal that I'm out a fender tag.

[1969chargerrtse]

He has this in the auction -

1969 Dodge  :  Charger   
1969 CHARGER RT/SE 440 BEAUTIFUL CA CAR NO RUST DODGE


Presenting for your pleasure:  1969 Dodge Charger RT/SE 440.  This is a beautiful automobile and is the real deal Special Edition.

He doesn't say real R/T but he's saying it is an R/T with that in the description isn't he

That bugged me too, before I paid for it.  He just knows nothing about Mopars.  He has 10 GM toys and just bought this 6 years ago because they popular.  I had him check the radiator support, he had no idea about those matching numbers.  Why he pushed the SE is odd, but he knew no better.  If he did that fender tag would not of been on there.

[1969chargerrtse]

I would be concerned the car is a real R/T at this point. Have you verified the VIN number on the dash with the one on the core support, trunk lip and title? Silly question - does it have a broadcast sheet? Have you looked for one?

I personally think it's a big deal with a fake fender tag, but what you can do about it, I don't know. Is the car overall a nice car? If so, maybe you just drive it and enjoy it.

How far away do you live? Is a visit in person warranted? Not suggesting any violence, but just to let the guy know you won't go away quietly until a fair solution is reached.

Redone seats, headliner, rugs.  No sheet to be found.  He bought it in Bellflower CA 6 years ago so I still have to call the town hall there and research more.

[1969chargerrtse]

i would just cut and take what u got

It's the path I'm heading, I really love the car, and by doing the motor myself and detailing and powder coating, it will look nice, and if all things stay the same, it should go up in price and having 35k plus shouldn't be a biggy.  I know before I bought this and since, still,  anything real nice is at least 35k  and up, thats why I grabbed it.  I still find them so hard to find in this overall shape under 30k.

Thanks everybody for your advise, still thinking about it, I sent him a second email today.  We'll see.

[68charger383]

Contact Ebay buyer protection.

This is a clear misrepresentation on the cars description. The fact that someone places a fender tag on the car which they know is wrong in order to have you believe that it is something it is not...is a misrepresentation or fraud.

You would have to prove that he knew or should have known that the tag was false or that he sought out the tag for the purpose of deceiving a potential buyer. Bascially...hard to do unless his ebay feedback shows him buying a 69 Charger fender tag recently? Another issue is that he states the car is NOM, but you stated that it was not...is there a partial vin on the block.

Lastly, I think that the car would be worth about $35K-$40K with the fender tag, so buying it for $30K would place the car at about the right discounted price for the lack of a fender tag. (The engine blowing up/brakes is a different issue)

Try Ebay....might be to late...forget the lawsuit unless you have something to prove he knew....move on with that Hemi clone! 

[70charger_boy]

First of all, there are 3 things that stick out.  The fender tag is clearly a repop.  That is clear to anyone in the car world, mopar or not.  Different Font, I would've ran away from the car when I saw that.  It's not even painted.

I usually tend to run away from people selling cars that paint the master cylinder and wiper motor black

Then, the motor is all chrome, but the exhaust manifold is rusty.  Rule of thumb is, The undercarriage will look like the exhaust manifolds, at least in my experience.

So, what can you learn from this?

If you see a car with a really nice, gleaming paint job, chromed out engine, rusty exhaust manifold and black MC and wiper motor, Run Forest RUN

[fc7_plumcrazy]

Hi,

the seller showed the faked fender Tag. Real experienced Mopar guys will identify it as being wrong. The seller stated nowhere in the ad "original Fender Tag". The seller has -in general- a good ebay-feedback. That indicates me that he is a relativly honest ebayer. He just doesn't have a clue about Mopars. And the buyer wasn't to experienced at the point of purchase, too. Think that should be booked under experience. It would have been different if the seller would have been a dealer.

Just think about it: What do all the people do who bought an HLPAG or Texastoybox pork? They buy perfumed porks and if they want to sell them again they might advertise them the same way (rustfree). Simply because they don't know any better.

Carsten

[Charger74]

I have to say that was very well said.      Important thing is, you got a car you liked, you plan to fix it to make it a little more correct and drive it.   Like you said, these cars are closing in on 40 years old, things have been done to them.  Having a factory correct car is nice, but what fun is it if you never drive it.......

[PocketThunder]

I would value the rust free original panel body over the fender tag.   I would think as far as re-sale that an original sheet metal car with no tag would be worth just as much as a non original sheetmetal car with the tag.

Paul
in St. Paul

[Old Moparz]

It's a very nice car, but I'd be more annoyed with the fact that the engine grenaded more than the fender tag issue. Especially if the title & VIN match & you're happy with the car. I'm also pretty sure that the fender tag problem wouldn't hold up in any court since the fender tag has nothing to do with the vehicle's VIN & title. Yes, I know the tag shows the VIN & should match, but it's basically the metal version of a build sheet showing options. Hopefully the seller will make good on the offer to reimburse you something for the engine. I think you'd have a much better chance at that than proving the car was misrepresented.

I bought a 1969 Charger SE ages ago from a seller who advertised the car as being restored & the drive train rebuilt. The transmission lines were damaged, so he agreed to replace them before I bought it. A week after I had the car, the trans died leaving me stranded. I later found out after having the trans rebuilt that he only sectioned in some new lines & left a crushed section in place. I called him, told him the problem, & said that I'd like to work something out. He stalled by telling me to get another opinion & call him back. Well, he ignored me until we went to small claims court where he ended up paying for the entire repair.

Good luck with the seller & document everything you can.

[dodgecharger-fan]

I think the clincher will be the answer to this question: How does the dash VIN look and does it match the body stamps?
If it says XS29 and the numbers match the body stamps and doesn't look like it's been "restored" then the missing fender tag is unfortunate, but not the end of the world.
If this were the case, I'd let it go if I were in your position.

If that dash VIN is the least bit hinky, I'd be digging deep to find out as much as I can so I'd be sure of what I've got.

The body numbers match, but only the fender tag, dash VIN, and build sheet show the full VIN, right?
My concern is that it's way too easy to look at the sequence number on the body and go make up that fender tag to match those numbers and then add whatever you want to amek the car what you want it to be. The dash VIN and/or build sheet are the supporting cast to star fender tag.

Best of luck.

Either way, you have a real nice car.

[dodgecharger-fan]

The Vin is untouched, I'm positive it's a real RTSE. 

Then just enjoy the car!!!   

If you were ever to get lucky and find someone with the build sheet, you could get a proper fender tag made up.

[69Charger_440]

Have you tried calling him?  His number is in that ebay ad you posted.

Fernando

[TUFCAT]

Galen works on the good samaritan program regarding buildsheets. If he has your buildsheet, and you can prove ownership, he will send it to you. He's been offering this lost and found service for about 20 years (since he started in the hobby) and encourages people to send wrong buildsheets found inside cars, or from a previous car they have owned.  IT WORKS WELL - - good luck!

[moparstuart]

amazing you can keep such a positive attitude after all these guys dumb on you
  keep up the faith

[68chrgrwife]

Glad you are getting on with your car...she sure is beautiful.  I hope that she gives you and your wife tons of joy in the years to come.....

[TUFCAT]

Yeah, I second that!  It's a really great looking Charger!!!  I'm also very impressed with your positive attitude and composure during the brief ownership experience you've had.  It's been a downer for you and the family, when it should have brought you all the enjoyment you've expected!  How you managed to pull it all together shows a lot of class with such a big investment.  You obviously have a very understanding wife  -  Cheers to good wives!

[1969chargerrtse]

Glad you are getting on with your car...she sure is beautiful.  I hope that she gives you and your wife tons of joy in the years to come.....

Thanks, the good news bad news is, my wife has less than no interest in cars. In one way it's good because she really could care less, as long as the bills are paid.  I could have an AC cobra in there and she wouldn't know the difference (or care) .  Many of my guy friends have wife's that do care, and they have no car because of that.  On the down side she kinda doesn't understand the car/human bond going on here.  You do, thats cool.  Thanks.