Help turning a 440 by hand

[grdprx]

I've searched for help, and I've tried penetrating oil in the spark plug holes to free up the pistons, but I still can't seem to move the crank bolt by hand or with a bit of wrenching.  Now what?  I got the motor off craigslist.....

[firefighter3931]

Pull the heads and see if there is any rust in the cylinders. 


Ron

[grdprx]

If I take the heads off, they should get resurfaced before they go back on; eh?

[dukeboy_318]

try pouring coke in to the spark plug holes and letting it sit overnight and make sure the plugs are out and that should free it up

[firefighter3931]

If I take the heads off, they should get resurfaced before they go back on; eh?

If the block is frozen up you will probably be doing more than just surfacing the heads. 

Generally speaking ; the heads will probably require some milling to straighten them out...constant heating/cooling cycles will cause warpage over a 30+ year lifespan.



Ron

[grdprx]

Hey dukeboy, what happens to the coke after that; whether it works or not?  Is there any clean up necessary or anything?  Thanks for the suggestion.

[dukeboy_318]

Im assuming that its on a stand, if so simply put a pan under it and open the drain plugs in the side of the block and drain everything out, or simply tilt the engine over, slowly, and let it drain out of the plug holes.  No matter what with it being siezed, you will have to pull the heads and check the cylinders out for damage, so just take some mineral spirits and wipe the bores down.

[The70RT]

If it is hard to turn it needs rebuilt. If you free it up more than likely you will have problems sooner or later. You might even break a ring or piston. Pull the pan and that will tell you someting about it. I'm sure your gonna at least regasket it anyway....right? And for taking the drain plugs out of the side of the block....all that is doing is draining your water jackets. For pouring coke in it  some of it will go in the pan. I never heard of that except on this board. If ya gotta do that then it needs more than a drink  

[dukeboy_318]

   you will need to have it rebuilt either way, coke is just used to unsieze it to make it easier to get the pistons out.  i didnt believe coke would work till one of my dads friends who races dirt cars told us that a couple months ago and we tried it in a seized 350 and let it sit overnite and it unsiezed it, motor still needed rebuilt, but taking it apart was so much easier

[Bandit72]

If it is hard to turn it needs rebuilt. If you free it up more than likely you will have problems sooner or later. You might even break a ring or piston. Pull the pan and that will tell you someting about it. I'm sure your gonna at least regasket it anyway....right? And for taking the drain plugs out of the side of the block....all that is doing is draining your water jackets. For pouring coke in it  some of it will go in the pan. I never heard of that except on this board. If ya gotta do that then it needs more than a drink  

we used to do it to old farm tractors and besides the sticky factor it really wasn't that bad...i'm not so sure i'd try it on a car engine without rebuilding it afterwards though...

[SeattleCharger]

I bought an old steel crank 440 engine to get the steel crank out of it and maybe rebuild, and I tried a bit of time getting the thing to turn, eventually I took off a head and there was quite a bit of rust on the cylinder walls, not pitted, but rust powder, enough that the pistons were stuck in there,  dissassembled the thing and even when the crank was out and both heads off, there was no way those pistons were moving, the other side of engine, second head, those were pitted on a couple that they probably would have had to go to .60 over or even a sleeve, I have another good block fortunately and the steel crank was good to go.  Hopefully your block is ok enough to bore out .30 over, it could be worse.
  I would recomment taking off both heads and inspecting the cylinder walls at least, it is a pain, but I managed to do most of this with a 3/8 socket set, 1/2 inch on some when my limited set would fit the application of the bolt, much easier,   You will need to remove the intake also to do this,

[grdprx]

Thanks everyone.  I've got some work to do.  I'll keep you posted on the progress.

[SeattleCharger]

When I said it could be worse, I meant that if its seized up from rust or whatever,  and you have to do a rebuild and the block can be done .30 over, that is a good thing,   I meant if that's all you have to do, consider yourself lucky, the situation overall could be worse, that's what I meant.
   At least you will have a rebuilt engine that could last a long long time,  may cost a couple grand minimum though for parts and machine shop work

[grdprx]

OK, I've updated my situation.  There is quite a bit of rush in the cylinders.  I got 1 piston out, but we can't move the crank, so it's difficult to pound out the next one...

I've had brake fluid in there for a while.  I've had coke in there for 4 days.  Still stuck.  So I'm going to let it sit a bit longer.  It was pretty nasty though.. I'd put a pic on, but I don't know how to compress a file.

[terrible one]

Try some PB Blaster.

[SeattleCharger]

OK, I've updated my situation.  There is quite a bit of rush in the cylinders.  I got 1 piston out, but we can't move the crank, so it's difficult to pound out the next one...

I've had brake fluid in there for a while.  I've had coke in there for 4 days.  Still stuck.  So I'm going to let it sit a bit longer.  It was pretty nasty though.. I'd put a pic on, but I don't know how to compress a file.

I've been using this free photo shop type program for a couple/few years, its awesome, does a lot of things, not as good of photoshop, which is like 800 bucks or something, but for free it does tons of things,  no catch either,  they maybe send an email every 6 months,  anyways, here is the link, scroll down and click on "download photoplus 6",    the thing you use in there is "optimize", it lowers the file size, but not the actual width or height of photo, looks the same online, would only look different if you printed an optimized photo,   ask me if you need some help, oh ya, when you plug in your digital camera, all the photos will automatically go into the photoplus program, then you can crop em and resize em and optimize em, change the lighting a few ways, make it sharper, draw on it with different size paint brushes and any color, put writing on the picture, copy and paste parts of photos into other photos, thats is trickier, but you can sort of do photochops, 

     http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/PhotoPlus/

[grdprx]

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!

I got the crank out!  My wife doesn't share my enthusiasm...  I called my buddy who's helping me with the build, knows a tad more about motors...  He said, "What does it look like?"  I reply, "A crank..."  I dunno...   

Anywho, I've been working on this for almost 2 months.  We got a piston out, but the crank wouldn't move.  Someone suggested brake fluid to loosen things up, worked out, pounded a couple more pistons out.  But, the rod on a couple got stuck against the cylinder wall because of the way the crank was; not moving.  So I ended up with 4 pistons out, 4 loose, but not out because the crank wouldn't turn.  IT wouldn't even turn with no rods attached to it!!

So, I proceeded to remove the crank.  Smacked the main bearing seals loose and lifted the crank out.  Success!  I feel better now.   

I'll knock the other 4 pistons out tomorrow evening, figured the neighbors wouldn't appreciate the pounding hammer at 10pm.  Now it's off to the machine shop.   

[SeattleCharger]

Right on! 

        from this:   

         
                  to this:   

[dukeboy_318]

  glad to hear, sounds like that motor was locked up good, im willing to bet there was a lot of damage to the cylinder walls.  also if you want send the pics to my emai at dukeboy_318@yahoo.com, ill resize them for you and post them here as well as send the resized ones back to you.

[dukeboy_318]

heres grdprx's pics of his engine, doesnt look good, i hope it can be cleaned up if not you got yourself a boat anchor. Thats a lot of boring though, probably will need sleeved, good luck and  let me know if you need anymore help.

[hemihead]

I had a 440 like that a few years ago. A Main Bearing was wiped out and it wouldn't even turn with a Breaker Bar and a pipe. The cylinders were nice too. You may need to have that crank cut.

[RD]

I had a 440 like that a few years ago. A Main Bearing was wiped out and it wouldn't even turn with a Breaker Bar and a pipe. The cylinders were nice too. You may need to have that crank cut.

in case you do not know the terminology  "GRDPRX (the initial poster of this thread, *edit, for clarity sakes*)".. have it ground down/machined is the same as "cut"

[hemihead]

I had a 440 like that a few years ago. A Main Bearing was wiped out and it wouldn't even turn with a Breaker Bar and a pipe. The cylinders were nice too. You may need to have that crank cut.

in case you do not know the terminology.. have it ground down/machined is the same as "cut"

Just like a " steel " crank everyone here talks about but I don't split hairs. So be very technical on your future posts or I'll start playing this game.

[RD]

I had a 440 like that a few years ago. A Main Bearing was wiped out and it wouldn't even turn with a Breaker Bar and a pipe. The cylinders were nice too. You may need to have that crank cut.

in case you do not know the terminology.. have it ground down/machined is the same as "cut"

Just like a " steel " crank everyone here talks about but I don't split hairs. So be very technical on your future posts or I'll start playing this game.

dude... I was clearing it up for the initial poster of the thread... not trying to tell you what you meant... you obviously understand what that means, but there is a great chance that guy didnt... hell, he could have thought you actually meant for him to cut his crankshaft literally.

i knew what you meant, but if he is asking these questions, he may not have.  

[hemihead]

Sorry I took that the wrong way. Just a little edgey today. 

[RD]

Sorry I took that the wrong way. Just a little edgey today. 

its cool, no worries mate

[The70RT]

Technically it is called TURNING he crank......then polishing.

[grdprx]

Thank you ALL!  My buddy helping me with the motor had said the crank would need to be turned.  So when you said cut the crank, my first thought was "Why would I want to cut it?"  So I appreciate ya'll clearing that up.   

Hey hemihead, did your motor work out; having looked as bad as mine does? 

And thanks again Dukeboy for getting these pics online for me!