bad oil leak

[srpntlair1]

some have kept up on my stroker build. well I have a BAD oil leak inside my bellhousong. thought it was the rear main. ordered anothe seal and the billet cap from 440 source. after about 25 mins it started dumping oil again. I am frustrated big time. the mechanic says the machine shop may have screwwed up the " bolts" that go through to the lifters in the back of the block. the machine shop is saying the mechanic bumped the cam  into the cam plug at the back too hard. any of this sound right. all i know is oil is running from the inside the tranny and running on the ground...NOT GOOD         HELP

[Plumcrazy]

I think you are going to have to pull the tranny to find anything out for sure.

[firefighter3931]

I think you are going to have to pull the tranny to find anything out for sure.

It could be leaking out of a core plug or possibly the freeze plug behind the cam....don't panic. Just pull the trans and fix it....



Ron

[srpntlair1]

well now i am at a total loss, we pulled the tranny, and no tell tale sign of where it is coming from. everything was wet, due to the converter slinging oil everywhere. plugs and cam seal all seem to be good, can still see all the " goop" around the threads. unfortunately with the tranny out we can't start the motor. will pulling the distributor and "priming" the oil pump be enough to see a leak or am i gonna need to pull all the plugs and spin the crank or does anyone else have ideas?? I've heard everything from the knurled cuts in the new cranks are tearing the rear main up to the plugs in the back of the block are in too far and the block is now cracked. like i said in the original post, it make no sense because it took 25 mins to start. it was at temp. after 10 mins at idle

[firefighter3931]

I would try priming the oil pump with the priming rod and rotate the engine over by hand with a ratchet on the crank bolt. Hopefully the leak will reveal itself. That sounds like a descent sized leak from what you are describing....shouldn't be too hard to find. I'm thinking with the large volume of oil it's the rear main seal.

Ron

[srpntlair1]

Ron, I really appreciate all the help. After isolating the problem, it is the rear main. put the 3rd one in and low and behold it blew again! just like the others took about 25 mins or so? what am i missing? everyone local i have talked to is at a loss, I can't see having 3 bad seals in a row

[BrianShaughnessy]

Strange.

I know there's old marine cranks out there with the fillets cut the opposite way because they're reverse rotation but I thought they started spewing oil immediately.

Not that that helps you any.

[firefighter3931]

That seems odd.... a seal should not blow out like that. The finish on the crank will have some impact on the seal but i'm assuming this was checked when the engine was rebuilt ?

Are you lubeing up the seal prior to installation ? If you put them in dry it can tear them up until oil reaches the seal area back there.

Another issue could be excessive crank case pressure. You need to have breathers or a pcv on the engine. If you have a pcv valve make sure it is working properly.

Let us know how it turns out. 



Ron

[srpntlair1]

all tolerences were checked, eveything within specs. got 2 last options... go back to the original " rope" seal   available from VICTOR or going to  a viton seal, i will keep you up to date once again i am at the point of why it is a problem to try and help others.  In reality I know i am the 1 in 1000 that has a problem   trust me with my luck i have become used to it

[Rolling_Thunder]

Strange.

I know there's old marine cranks out there with the fillets cut the opposite way because they're reverse rotation but I thought they started spewing oil immediately.

Not that that helps you any.

We had this problem in the shop with a 440...     Not immediately but within a few minutes - they leak...   

[srpntlair1]

New update.... I as well as my mechanic are now bald. after installing the viton seal, as well as the old school rope seal both leak at the wonderfull 25 minute mark. that is telling me the crank is not correct or flawed. Only thing I can figure is the knurling at the end of the crank didn't get final polishing or something along those lines. it has to be too rough to tear up 5 seals from 3 different compositions and 3 manufacturers. now my problem is...we gotta tear the whole motor down correct...$$ wise this is crap   any new ideas???

[firefighter3931]

I hate to say it but the crank needs to come out....the finish must be fubarred to keep wipeing rear seals. 


Sorry dude. 



Ron

[Plumcrazy]

I would take one more look all the way around the sealing surface for the seal.  I would think that anything that could chew up a seal that fast would be obvious. 

This is a long shot but, have you checked the bearing clearance back there?

[srpntlair1]

well, the final update to all that's going on. after talking to Brandon @ tech support. We determined the knurling on the crank is way too aggressive and didn't get final polish, or just not enough. unfortunately I am 5 times into oil pan removal and reinstall. As this is a forum I feel I am allowed to speak my mind. I by no means wish to bad mouth anyone, their products or policies, but when you invest money as I and many of you have in a quality product, and I am happy with all other aspects of my stroker kit, I think it is just crap when something like this happens. Unfortunately the warrantee is 30 days from invoice and the item cannot beinstalled for returns. I have been told the crank should have been checked and double checked. It was, unfortunately there are no specifications that you can check and no tolerances given for a flexible seal. I was informed that the teardown and rebuild shouldn't be that bad because all tolerances have already been done, but really that doesn't work, because my mechanic refuses to reuse bearings and I don't blame him, there just are certain things you don't re-use. so once again I am stuck not only paying for a new main cap because we thought that was the problem, 5 rear main seals, tear down and reinstall 5 times to replace those 5 seals, now I am going to have to eat labor on complete engine removal, teardown, crank polishing,  complete reassembly, including all new bearings, gasket kit, and the reinstallation of the motor. oh and by the way they said they might be able to help out and send me a new gasket kit. and hopefully after all that PRAY  the crank is correct this time. so my $13,000 motor with labor and parts is going to approach $16,000. wish I had just bought a crate 528 hemi from mancini around now 

[aifilaw]

Here's one other thing to check, internal and external engine balancing.... if it needed, or did not need a rear external balance from a weight either added or not added to the flywheel, or torque converter to externally balance the engine, and that was, or was not missing, depending on how it was built, that will tear up a few of your main journal bearings and especially the rear main seal

[srpntlair1]

ok, newest question. checked with machine shops within 200 miles, general concensus is with the amount of grinding to polish or remove knurles on main seal area, it will undersize the crank too much. some of the shops say to grind it completely out and weld in new steel, then cut it back down to factory diameter. is this durable and safe? is it going to compromise the weight and balance of the rotating assembly, any other problems forseen in doing this, or am I gonna have to foot another 700 for a new crank. recommendations and help GREATLY APPRECIATED!

[Challenger340]

Apologies for chiming in so late, but if you don't mind backing up a bit, I may be able to help out.

What is the appearance of the suspected failing rear main seals, are they actually "DAMAGED" on the lip from the crank surface, or, did they just leak, with no physical apparent reason "visible" for the leak ?  You said "chewed up" ?
Were they " ripped " ?

If they physically looked OK, please answer the following, and I may have a fix for 'ya.

What year is the block ?
Block Castings # ?
If 440, need farum numbers from Top Pad.

If the rear mains seals were all torn up and damaged, thats a crank problem, and disregard the above, and my apologies.

[srpntlair1]

it is a 1973 400 cast #'s not sure of other than late 72 what really leads me to believe it is the crank is back in 1992 I had the motor torn down and freshened up, new rings bearings etc all original internals and no problem, now with the new crank, seals are going out. have not looked at the rope seal yet, but neoprene seals were worn down. what is your idea???

[Challenger340]

I'm gonna take it to pm if ya don't mind, but your late 72 block would "fit".

sending pm.

[AKcharger]

Hey srpntlair1

Your making me nervous, I just got my short block back after installing a 440source stroker kit and crank. The motor is still in short block form and on my engine stand, is there anything I can check to ensure I don't have the same issue?

AK

[Challenger340]

I think Dan is checking it out right now, stay tuned.

Bob out.

[firefighter3931]

I think Dan is checking it out right now, stay tuned.

Bob out.

I'm curious as well. Is it a machining "finish" issue or something else ?

[Challenger340]

"pm" sent Ron.

[firefighter3931]

"pm" sent Ron.

Got it....and thank you for sharing your experience with the members ! 



Ron

[Steve P.]

"pm" sent Ron.

Got it....and thank you for sharing your experience with the members ! 



Ron

Hey Bob, I didn't get my secret PM...