Cam Change Maybe In The Works

[darrin75]

Ok, I have had a enough of this 509 cam, sure wish I had listened, but o'l well maybe I can be one of you now, and tell someone else not to use it in certain builds.  My question is this, my engine has less than 600 miles on it, is there any way to change the cam without pulling the engine out    If I had to guess probably not..

[Runner]

yup you can do it in the car

[mally69]

Yes, you can do it without pulling the motor..  take out the radiator, fan, power steering pump, water pump, timing cover, alternator, distributer, loosen the oil pan or drop it either way etc.. Then before you take your timing gears and chain off, crank the motor around to line up your timing marks Make sure #1 cylinder is top dead center ....you will have to pull the plugs out so you can crank the engine over,  then take off carb intake and valley pan  pull the lifters out, then pull out the cam. Check cam bearing's , Slide in new cam and lifters then line up the marks. just to be safe degree the cam.  Also make sure that the valve springs are stiff enough for your new cam.

If i missed anything here guys correct me...

[0X01B8]

  Yep, you can do it.  That was my summer project (mine was over-cammed too) and I'm real glad I did it.  I didn't drop the oil pan though.  Just be really, really, really, really careful pulling the cam out or you'll end up like me    --> http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,30877.0.html  It all turned out well but was looking pretty bleak for a while.  Wrap some masking or duct tape around the dist. drive gear so it doesn't scuff the bearing on the way in or out.

[Purple440]

If i missed anything here guys correct me...

Drink 1 beer between each milestone.

[firefighter3931]

Darrin, no problem swappin cams with the motor in the car....piece of cake 

E-bay that 509 and throw a real cam in there ! 



Ron

[darrin75]

will I lose any horse power?  Also The engle 56k right?

[darrin75]

firefighter were are you

[firefighter3931]

firefighter were are you

I was working today.....home now. 

To answer your previous post.....no you will not loose any power, in fact you will probably pick up a bunch. The problem with overcamming an engine is that you waste all the bottom end torque and midrange horsepower which is where your engine spends most of it's time anyway. 

I've referred to this build several times in the past but it's worth looking at again. There is some very good dyno results with the same engine using 2 different camshafts and the results are dramatic to say the least. Have a look :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6000.msg356593.html#msg356593


Yep, the K56 would be my pick....perfect with your converter and i would be looking for a set of 3.91 gears. 



Ron

[darrin75]

So from engle racing cam to get is 2356-H K-56HYD
.504"
.504" 272°
272° .336"
.336" 224°
224° 110° $155.00


Also Will need to change lifters as well, Firefighter want kind of horsepower do you think I will make? Also any links to help with doing this is thankful.
Rebuilt Mopar 383 Engine & Transmission Note:
OK here is the scoop on the 383 and trans.There will be all NEW PARTS unless stated,I will start at the top of the motor,750 Holley carb,Used single plane intake painted nice,Chrome valve covers,chrome air cleaner,452 heads with a 3 angle valve job and hardened seats for unleaded premium,509 cam and lifters,pushrods,timing chain,pistons 10 to 1 compression so you can still drive around town on unleaded premium,pistons Keith Black,with there rings,chrome pan,Crank turned 20 and 20,rods rebuilt,water pump,fuel pump,filters and synthetic 10W40 oil after the break-in run,and of course all new gaskets.Only thing used is the intake I keep them in stock and new Holley carbs for customers all the time.727 trans Fresh and stock converter


Thats my build Thats really all the info i have, but making sure I get what I need this time around firefighter .  Going to order it today, but just making sure here. I need to know new lifters??  Probably not, but what gaskets do I need?  Also I plan on pulling the cam out in 69 charger hope grille does not hinder anything.  Does summit racing carry similar cams, or engle racing best??

[firefighter3931]

Darrin, you will have to order the cam from Engle....Summit racing does not carry them. Order the cam and lifters....the rest of your parts will be fine....allways new lifters with any camshaft swap. You should also mark the lifters when removing the 509 cam so that if you want to sell it the lifters are matched to the lobe that they were mated to. It's a big no-no to install used lifters on different lobes than were used while the cam/lifters were running in the motor. If the lifters get mixed up you might as well trash them because the wrong lifter on the wrong lobe will wipe the cam out....and cause lots of damage in your motor.

Also a timing chain cover set and an intake manifold gasket #1214 felpro which blocks off the heat crossover and keeps the carb/manifold cooler. That is the correct grind....K56 


Once the rad and front part of the engine is torn down you will be able to swap the cam out in the car without removing the grill. Comp Cams & Crane cams websites have some detailed instructions on cam swaps with lots of good pointers. Go have a look and read up. 


As for power my guess is you will be in the 400hp range with lots of tire frying torque. 



Ron

[darrin75]

So new cam and lifters.  New seals and gaskets for the timing cover and intake? Correct and I should be good to go correct.  Just tring to make sure I get everything I need at once.  Thanks

[firefighter3931]

So new cam and lifters.  New seals and gaskets for the timing cover and intake? Correct and I should be good to go correct.  Just tring to make sure I get everything I need at once.  Thanks

Yep, that should be it.....the timing cover set comes with waterpump housing gaskets and it should have a new fuel pump gasket as well. Get some permatex "Ultra Copper" high heat silicone at the same time....you will be needing it. 

The valve cover gaskets should be in good shape so you can most likely re-use them.

You will need some good breakin oil and a bottle of EOS or Comp Cams breakin lube. Shell rotella is fine for the oil with a Napa "Gold" oil filter. The cam & lifter set will also come with a paste which is to be applied to the bottom of the lifters prior to fireup.

When you get closer to installing the cam we can go through the finer points.


Ron

[darrin75]

I know this sound pretty  but could you provides some links to all the stuff I need?

[Purple440]

 

I'm happy for you - I hope to have that same cam someday 

[darrin75]

Firefighter I am going to order the engle cam that you suggested, I hope you are right about it, as I have my 509 cam running pretty good right now.

[firefighter3931]

Firefighter I am going to order the engle cam that you suggested, I hope you are right about it, as I have my 509 cam running pretty good right now.

Don't worry....the Engle k56 will be a huge improvement in bottom end power. 

You'll find torque you never knew you had 



Ron

[hemihead]

 # 1 mistake everyone makes is over camming . Followed by over Carburation , too low gear ratio , etc. Biggest is not always the best .

[Rolling_Thunder]

yep...     overcammed engines suck to drive...     I had a 69 Road Runner in the shop that had a big comp bumpstick (312/312 on a 108) and it was horrid - now it has an Engle cam and is an absolute blast to drive   

[darrin75]

Congrats to me finally, i have K-56 engle cam to be installed..509 going bye bye...Lets see what what he will do now..

[firefighter3931]

Congrats to me finally, i have K-56 engle cam to be installed..509 going bye bye...Lets see what what he will do now..

That will be a nice improvement in bottom end power and overall drivability. 



Ron

[darrin75]

What happen to this cam is it no longer available 2356-H K-56HYD?

[darrin75]

Bump