Body shop question

[69bronzeT5]

Hey guys, should the hood and fenders of my Charger be taken off for when it goes to the body shop or should I leave them on?

[Charger-Bodie]

i own a resto shop and if you were bringing it to me i would want ALL of the sheetmetal on when you brought it , the first thing we do to a car is align ALL of the sheetmetal and the bumpers to detect any problems that would really suck to deal with later! So in a nutshell Id say leave it on.

[69bronzeT5]

Ok, just another question, should the engine be taken out?? I think it should so the body guys can paint the engine compartment to match the colour of the car and etc etc....but Ive been told by a few people to just leave it in there and the body guys can cover up the engine when they paint

[70charger_boy]

I would leave the engine in, so they can better align all the body panels

[Charger-Bodie]

i would not paint the engine compartment with the gine in my way.

[69bronzeT5]

i would not paint the engine compartment with the gine in my way.

Exactly, thats why it looks like this now

[Charger-Bodie]

Yep! black engine compartments are for black cars and brand X cars ONLY! IMO

[Silver R/T]

I would leave the engine in, so they can better align all the body panels

engine doesnt affect body panel alignment, k-member holds frame rails together underneath, radiator core support, firewall, etc.

[70charger_boy]

I would leave the engine in, so they can better align all the body panels

engine doesnt affect body panel alignment, k-member holds frame rails together underneath, radiator core support, firewall, etc.

[bill440rt]

IMHO, I'd prefer to remove the engine & disassemble the car as much as possible. If you're gonna be detailing that engine compartment, it would be much easier to disassemble beforehand rather than try to work around a freshly painted exterior afterwards.
You'll be able to detail everything while the car is being painted, & just reassemble it when you get it back. A much cleaner job.

Leaving the body panels on is OK, at least the shop can see how it is put together if they're not familiar with these cars. Normally, engine removal/installation should not have an effect on panel alignment.

[Charger-Bodie]

IMHO, I'd prefer to remove the engine & disassemble the car as much as possible. If you're gonna be detailing that engine compartment, it would be much easier to disassemble beforehand rather than try to work around a freshly painted exterior afterwards.
You'll be able to detail everything while the car is being painted, & just reassemble it when you get it back. A much cleaner job.

Leaving the body panels on is OK, at least the shop can see how it is put together if they're not familiar with these cars. Normally, engine removal/installation should not have an effect on panel alignment.

when i said leave the panels on , i didnt meen to leave them on for the entire process , just so that the shop can align the panels to be sure that the adjustment is there so that you dont find out later that they wont align as good as needed. its an extra step to align the metal just to remove it right away but trust me its worth it when it makes it that much easier to reasemble.

[Silver R/T]

you have to take doors, trunk lid, hood off to jamb them and do the underside, inside the trunk, inside the engine bay. Once inside is all done, you bolt all the panels back on, mask them off and paint the whole exterior in one shot.

[Charger-Bodie]

you have to take doors, trunk lid, hood off to jamb them and do the underside, inside the trunk, inside the engine bay. Once inside is all done, you bolt all the panels back on, mask them off and paint the whole exterior in one shot.

    that may be how YOU do it but it surely not the way I do it . some people dont want tape lines in every opening of the car (ie doors deck lid hood etc)

PS Silver R/T  im not trying to be a know it all but , from most of youre posts (ecspecially about body and paint) you should be asking questions instead of answering them!

[Silver R/T]

If you go to any body shop (probably not the one you are working at) this is the way they do it if whole car is being repainted. My college teacher taught all of us the way to do it. So maybe you should be applying for local teacher at community college since you know it all. You do not notice any tape lines, because you blend it in. I'm talking about bc/cc system (I do not like any other way, ie single stage system) because bc/cc is the best way to go, unless you're working on something cheap like at maaco. I definitely wouldn't be painting my charger single stage.
You do not realize what I am saying because you probably have not painted much. Ive been painting for years.
First you lay doors on sawhorses or hold it with one of these :

obviously you're painting the inside. Then you take door off (once its cured of course) and bolt it onto the car. You tape the window, backmasking along the edges. This way no overspray goes onto painted inside or inside the car.
Here you can see whole car being painted, as you can see all the major body parts are intact.

You have to be careful especially with metallics. You have to have all the body panels on the car because if you lay doors on saw horses etc, metallic flakes will lay differently and you will have different shaded parts all over the car.
Now if anyone else needs more lessons do not hesistate to pm me or ask on here. This forum is for helping each other. Now if someone wants to attack me, I can't help that and it's up to moderators to stop that (if they pay enough attention to that).

[Charger-Bodie]

If you go to any body shop (probably not the one you are working at) this is the way they do it if whole car is being repainted. My college teacher taught all of us the way to do it. So maybe you should be applying for local teacher at community college since you know it all. You do not notice any tape lines, because you blend it in. I'm talking about bc/cc system (I do not like any other way, ie single stage system) because bc/cc is the best way to go, unless you're working on something cheap like at maaco. I definitely wouldn't be painting my charger single stage.
You do not realize what I am saying because you probably have not painted much. Ive been painting for years.
First you lay doors on sawhorses or hold it with one of these :

obviously you're painting the inside. Then you take door off (once its cured of course) and bolt it onto the car. You tape the window, backmasking along the edges. This way no overspray goes onto painted inside or inside the car.
Here you can see whole car being painted, as you can see all the major body parts are intact.

You have to be careful especially with metallics. You have to have all the body panels on the car because if you lay doors on saw horses etc, metallic flakes will lay differently and you will have different shaded parts all over the car.
Now if anyone else needs more lessons do not hesistate to pm me or ask on here. This forum is for helping each other. Now if someone wants to attack me, I can't help that and it's up to moderators to stop that (if they pay enough attention to that).

SILVER the way you are talking about is fine for a run of the mill paint job or on a non show car type job but if you are painting a Charger its probobly not going to be done as much justice with paint lines and dry spray resto work is alot differant than average everday stuff like you are obviously used to working on.

PS SILVER R/T how many best of show  and first place trophys do you have for the cars youve done? i have 5 bos 27 1st place and numerous others  all on a wide variety of mopars that have been done at MY shop.

PSS i wasnt trying to attack you ! just trying to help bronzy

[70charger_boy]

 

[bill440rt]

IMHO, I'd prefer to remove the engine & disassemble the car as much as possible. If you're gonna be detailing that engine compartment, it would be much easier to disassemble beforehand rather than try to work around a freshly painted exterior afterwards.
You'll be able to detail everything while the car is being painted, & just reassemble it when you get it back. A much cleaner job.

Leaving the body panels on is OK, at least the shop can see how it is put together if they're not familiar with these cars. Normally, engine removal/installation should not have an effect on panel alignment.

when i said leave the panels on , i didnt meen to leave them on for the entire process , just so that the shop can align the panels to be sure that the adjustment is there so that you dont find out later that they wont align as good as needed. its an extra step to align the metal just to remove it right away but trust me its worth it when it makes it that much easier to reasemble.

Right, 1hot68. I knew exactly what you meant. 

Bronzy here is just asking for some advice. I just don't want to see him get some bass-ackwards advice like painting jambs, then masking everything up, & painting it again.     Obviously, if the means are there to paint it disassembled, then do it. You'll get a cleaner job in the jambs. Most production or collision body shops do not work this way. I know a few shops in my area that paint pieces off the car & then assemble them just for the sole purpose of no tape lines in the jambs.

PS- And, FYI, even IF you backtape them, or use D.A.R.T tape, you'll STILL get a line. And, if you use any kind of pigmented sealer, you'll get a bleed-thru line that you'll HAVE to spot in later. Believe me, I KNOW.

PSSSilver- My '70 was painted disassembled. Guess what? It all matches. And it's metallic. 

[Goodz]

OK, I think we can all agree that there are several way of doing things.  Everyone here seems to think that there way is the best way, but that doesnt mean its the only way.  Some people have more experience and have modified techniques to fit their style and get a perfect paintjob while that same sytle might be a disaster for someone else.  The end result is what's important and it's nice to have different opinions to choose from when you ask a question.  Now if he goes with one of your ways and it doesnt work out, he has someone to blame.   

[Silver R/T]

^^^^^exactly, now if someone wants to post pictures for others to see that would be even better, that way there's no bsing around and saying that they're right and everyone else's wrong.

[hemi-hampton]

I do it a little different then all those ways. People tell me it can't be done but they change there mind after I'm done. LEON.

[Silver R/T]

shit, everyone read the article of guy rolling on the paint with a roller. I dont see people bashing him, afterall it works. It's just not the way I'd do it.

[Goodz]

shit, everyone read the article of guy rolling on the paint with a roller. I dont see people bashing him, afterall it works. It's just not the way I'd do it.

LOL!  i would LOVE to see that.  i have an airbrush.  it will take me about 6 days to finish, but i could do it too.  LOL

[TUFCAT]

I hate PAINT LINES!!!  Period.  I spent weeks (maybe months) doing "paint-line surgery" on my '72 Charger Rallye after someones ametuer restoration. UGH.

[Silver R/T]

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
It was actually discussed on here a bit ago, I just can't find the thread. Most of the members were impressed by it nonetheless.

[Charger-Bodie]

here ya go SILVER OL BUDDY!!

[Charger-Bodie]

1 more after the parts were rehung  NO PAINT LINES PERIOD!!!!  all i did was adjust everything took it apart painted it , then put it back together!!!    ...... by the way we do it this way on ALL restos we do and also regular jobs when ever possible if you can JUST put the parts that need paint in the booth ist alot less masking AND a better end result!

[Silver R/T]

looks pretty good! If Im correct it's solid color. Why you do not like painting all the parts on the car? Way I was shown you're left without tape lines. When clear is shot it blends into the jams way that its not showing tape lines. But whatever, whichever works, right?
Here's show car that my teacher painted (camaro) It has won numerous awards and its a race car and ran in high 9's last time I checked it out. He does all kinds of painting on the side also and has done many show cars, drag bikes, etc.
http://www.scc.spokane.edu/?autotechno

[Charger-Bodie]

looks pretty good! If Im correct it's solid color. Why you do not like painting all the parts on the car? Way I was shown you're left without tape lines. When clear is shot it blends into the jams way that its not showing tape lines. But whatever, whichever works, right?
Here's show car that my teacher painted (camaro) It has won numerous awards and its a race car and ran in high 9's last time I checked it out. He does all kinds of painting on the side also and has done many show cars, drag bikes, etc.
http://www.scc.spokane.edu/?autotechno

     the prob with back mask is if it not a hard line its a dry area that you need to hand rub the crap out of . by the way yes my car (in the pics) is a solid color (black) but we always do it that way , a couple examples a 70 r/t b5 blue , a 69 1/2 a12 road runner vit c both metalic and the modern form for vitimyn c is a tri coat and it matched ! its all about spraying the base evenly and keeping youre head in the game while spraying ......best of all not tape lines or dryspray to deal with just a matter of masking the bolt and squirting them after its back together , which you would also need to do if you jamb the parts off .......if you can jamb a part off you can paint the entire panel off too!!!

[supserdave]

I wouldn't get in a fight with Brian about body work...If he doesn't kick your butt I"m sure his car will. 

[bill440rt]

1hot68, nice work! 

That's almost EXACTLY the way I did my '70. I even painted the fenders off the car, & the hood was laid flat.

Masking & painting the bolts afterward can be a headache. A good trick is to assemble the car with hardware store bolts, using a metal then a PLASTIC washer not to scratch anything. Line everything up, then swap out the bolts again one at a time. Eastwood sells a plastic socket insert set which works great so you don't scratch the bolts. You can't crank down tight with them, but get them snug enough. I then used a thin rag in a socket for the final tighten.
Time consuming? Hell yeah! But the end result was cleaner.

Granted, not everyone has the means of doing it this way!! If you do, you can see how much better the job is. I had no choice but to jamb in my '69 & then spray the rest of the car assembled, it was just the nature of my working conditions at the time. I used DART tape on the jambs. Guess what? Shi++y edges with traces of gray sealer! 
I prefer to spray a coat of sealer prior to paint, and you WILL get an overspray edge in the jambs from this. I had no choice but to spot in the jambs again. A major headache.   
Even if you don't spray sealer, the clear may not cover all of the basecoat overspray that goes into the jamb. You'll always have some kind of edge.

Silver, I'm not trying to bash you or your ideas, but you seem to be very un-receptive when someone else here makes a suggestion or has a different method to show you. For your benefit, try to keep an open mind, eh? 

[hemi-hampton]

TUFFCAT, You didn't see any tape lines on my buddys Green 1970 Super Bee did you? LEON.

[Silver R/T]

1hot68, nice work!

That's almost EXACTLY the way I did my '70. I even painted the fenders off the car, & the hood was laid flat.

Masking & painting the bolts afterward can be a headache. A good trick is to assemble the car with hardware store bolts, using a metal then a PLASTIC washer not to scratch anything. Line everything up, then swap out the bolts again one at a time. Eastwood sells a plastic socket insert set which works great so you don't scratch the bolts. You can't crank down tight with them, but get them snug enough. I then used a thin rag in a socket for the final tighten.
Time consuming? Hell yeah! But the end result was cleaner.

Granted, not everyone has the means of doing it this way!! If you do, you can see how much better the job is. I had no choice but to jamb in my '69 & then spray the rest of the car assembled, it was just the nature of my working conditions at the time. I used DART tape on the jambs. Guess what? Shi++y edges with traces of gray sealer!
I prefer to spray a coat of sealer prior to paint, and you WILL get an overspray edge in the jambs from this. I had no choice but to spot in the jambs again. A major headache.
Even if you don't spray sealer, the clear may not cover all of the basecoat overspray that goes into the jamb. You'll always have some kind of edge.

Silver, I'm not trying to bash you or your ideas, but you seem to be very un-receptive when someone else here makes a suggestion or has a different method to show you. For your benefit, try to keep an open mind, eh?

Im not bashing anyone, including hot68. Go re-read what I wrote. I said "whatever works"ok? That means whatever pleases you. He sprays hiis cars his way, I'll do it my way. My teacher thought it and he's done many cars and never had a problem with edges, besides you have to cut in edges on panels and jambs anyways so your paint goes OVER the edge so you don't have to go back and respray edges, possibly missing paint.
The point is I suggested what he could do, it's up to him to decide which way he wants to paint his car. Topic closed.

[TUFCAT]

TUFFCAT, You didn't see any tape lines on my buddys Green 1970 Super Bee did you? LEON.

NOT AT ALL    I liked it - and I'm Picky!

[Charger-Bodie]

TUFFCAT, You didn't see any tape lines on my buddys Green 1970 Super Bee did you? LEON.

NOT AT ALL    I liked it - and I'm Picky!

yo Tuffcat I bet there arent any paint lines on youre surviver!!!

[hemi-hampton]

TUFFCAT, Remember, that was just a Daily Driver, Far from my best work. 90% of my time was spent doing quality nitpicky body work, making every crack & crevise mint, By then the guy started rushing me saying taking to long, Result was a quicky wet sand & rub. Beleive it or not I painted that car with all the parts bolted together, I prefer it this way on a metallic car. Believe it or not I did not use the foam D.a.r.t. or tape of any kind & had NO tape lines but painted all the parts on car. People say it cant be done but I know a trick to it.  LEON.

[TUFCAT]

Here's to having no paint lines  

[Silver R/T]

TUFFCAT, Remember, that was just a Daily Driver, Far from my best work. 90% of my time was spent doing quality nitpicky body work, making every crack & crevise mint, By then the guy started rushing me saying taking to long, Result was a quicky wet sand & rub. Beleive it or not I painted that car with all the parts bolted together, I prefer it this way on a metallic car. Believe it or not I did not use the foam D.a.r.t. or tape of any kind & had NO tape lines but painted all the parts on car. People say it cant be done but I know a trick to it.  LEON.

thanks for backing me up, I hope some people will lay off of my back for now.

[hemi-hampton]

Not the first Time, I backed you up when you first hacked off your 1/4, remember? LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

TUFFCAT, Remember, that was just a Daily Driver, Far from my best work. 90% of my time was spent doing quality nitpicky body work, making every crack & crevise mint, By then the guy started rushing me saying taking to long, Result was a quicky wet sand & rub. Beleive it or not I painted that car with all the parts bolted together, I prefer it this way on a metallic car.                                                                                                                                                                                                        " Believe it or not I did not use the foam D.a.r.t. or tape of any kind & had NO tape lines but painted all the parts on car. People say it cant be done but I know a trick to it.  LEON."

Leon i also know how to "sealer mask" , and it is better than a hard line but still not even close to as good as NO PAINT LINES ! but whatever suits a guy , suits a guy! by the way Leon this isnt an attack on you or anyone else but i just dont hang with the good nuff crowd, i am constantly striving for better and better! and those who dont strive for better in this bussiness soon get passed and out performed.

[70charger_boy]

I love tape lines.  It's like a bikini line

[Charger-Bodie]

I love tape lines.  It's like a bikini line

actually no they are comp[letly differant!!

[supserdave]

Not even close to the same! I don't mind seeing tan lines on cars though ....

[70charger_boy]

Well, I still love tape lines 

[Charger-Bodie]

Well, I still love tape lines 

you would ! freak!     calm down im kiddin

[70charger_boy]

Well, I still love tape lines 

you would ! freak!     calm down im kiddin

Speaking of freaks, where's Timmy?

[Charger-Bodie]

Well, I still love tape lines 

you would ! freak!     calm down im kiddin

Speaking of freaks, where's Timmy?

Timmy no have internet any mo.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Timmy, Timmy! Timayayay ! :

[Charger-Bodie]

Timmy, Timmy! Timayayay ! :

funniest part about that is that , we great him with that everytime we see thae timmay!

[70charger_boy]

   Well, tell the timmaey that they have the internet at the local public library.  Hot chics too.  Jailbait, but hot!!

[Charger-Bodie]

  Well, tell the timmaey that they have the internet at the local public library.  Hot chics too.  Jailbait, but hot!!

he dont have time to go to the library with a job and a man whore service!!!

[hemi-hampton]

1HOT68, What do you mean by Sealer Mask,    Explain this in detail as I never heard of it?   This sealer mask might have nothing to do with my technique?   Might be totally different? LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

OK Leon a sealer mask is when you put tape and paper to the first line inside the jamb and then take another piece or pieces of tape all the way too the edge of the jamb leaving a tail to grab it with, after sealing the car you pull the strip of tape out allowing the base and clear to flow over the edge of the sealer to make for a nice , sealer edge free jamb. alot of the time if you hand rub this back it can fool most people ,BUT it is still not the same as NO TAPE LINES!! Brian  Later Brian (1hot68)

[hemi-hampton]

NO, Sorry, That is not the Technique I use. I dont think my cars would get many first place trophys & be in Detroit Autorama & my Red T/A used in all the Mopar Performance Ads if I had tape lines or sealer mask. LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

NO, Sorry, That is not the Technique I use. I dont think my cars would get many first place trophys & be in Detroit Autorama & my Red T/A used in all the Mopar Performance Ads if I had tape lines or sealer mask. LEON.

tape lines dont show with the doors shut ! so explain youre method!

[hemi-hampton]

This is the same Red T/A seen in all the Mopar Performance Catalogs & advertising, ect, ect. No tape lines or sealer lines. I also did the most of the $30,000 paint job on the West Virginia Hemi 68 Super Stock Hemi Cuda Car  in Multi rainbow colors inside & out of doors & jambs, ect & no tape lines. Should I post pics? LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

NO, Sorry, That is not the Technique I use. I dont think my cars would get many first place trophys & be in Detroit Autorama & my Red T/A used in all the Mopar Performance Ads if I had tape lines or sealer mask. LEON.

tape lines dont show with the doors shut !



"so explain youre method!"

[hemi-hampton]

Feel like my work is in Question. Heres what happened with this car. $30,000 paint job & first painter puts about 10 coats on it & screws it up. Then 2nd painter puts another 10 coats on it & screws it up. In the mean time doors jambs taped up to the very very edge of 1/4, not even in a a 1/2 inch or more, right at the edge, Now with 10 coats or more & taped to the very edge you can imagine the tape line, about a 1/4 deep, enough to break a finger nail off on. So, I come along & bail them out, Everybody says good luck, your screwed. I fix & Paint & do jambs seperate & guess what, NO Tape lines.  Multi custom stripes & layers & done seperate & no tape lines. Take a look if you ever see this car. LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

Heres another Pic, Not the best, 35 mm in my Portfolio taken with digital with flash in dark, Sorry. LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

Here it is at Autorama, 1HOT68, I dont specialize in Quicky Earl Sceib Maaco tape line jobs, You must have me confused with someone else? LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

first off Leon i never called You earl Schieb and also i never would ive gained respect for you on this site ,BUT you are kida beating around the bush here , did yo do a flip edge solvent blend , What/ lets here it there are only so many ways to deal with an edge!

[70charger_boy]

Oh, I see what is going on here.  Divert the attention away from Silver's body work to Hemi-Hamptons

[hemi-hampton]

The Hang with the Good enough crowd I took as a insult impling Earl Schieb, I dont like to do those & prefer the $100,000 100 point showcars myself but most tight wades bring me a Total Rustbucket & say can you mint it out like a showcar for 5 , uh ok $10 grand. You get what you pay for. Pay for Garbage get Garbage. Sometimes  You wait along time for those moneybags Lawyers, Doctors, Businessman, ect to walk up & throw $100 grand at you. In the meantime you gotta do the local plumbers 74 Valiant slant 6 for $3,000. LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

The Hang with the Good enough crowd I took as a insult impling Earl Schieb, I dont like to do those & prefer the $100,000 100 point showcars myself but most tight wades bring me a Total Rustbucket & say can you mint it out like a showcar for 5 , uh ok $10 grand. You get what you pay for. Pay for Garbage get Garbage. Sometimes  You wait along time for those moneybags Lawyers, Doctors, Businessman, ect to walk up & throw $100 grand at you. In the meantime you gotta do the local plumbers 74 Valiant slant 6 for $3,000. LEON.

so whats the paint edge deal?

[hemi-hampton]

Ancient Chineese Secret

[70charger_boy]

 

[Charger-Bodie]

Ancient Chineese Secret

load of what?

[70charger_boy]

Man who go to bed with itchy bum, wake up with smelly finger