GTX motor progress... UPDATE... VROOOM!

[471_Magnum]

Gonna let the old thread die. It's gotten a little too long. 

Anyway... I got the block and crank home last night. Mounted the block on the stand and started file fitting the rings. Got the tops done. Called it a night.

First thing tonight I file-fit the middle rings. After that I spent some time cleaning up the block. Knocked off some casting flash and wire wheeled the rust off.  I think this block once served as a boat anchor judging by the heavy exterior rust.

After cleaning the outside, I chased all the threads. Don't want to get halfway into assembly and find a stripped hole. Better to find and fix now than have to break out the drill and helicoils, risking getting filings into a new motor. Fortunately, no stripped holes were found. I then pushed the block to the side.

Next I disassembled the rods. Much easier to do without a piston flopping around on the end.

Finally I assembled the pistons to the rods. I hate spiroloxs. 

Just for giggles, I threw a new rod and piston assembly up on the scale: 3 lbs 8 oz. I followed that with one of the old ones (LY rod, cast piston) that maxed out my 4 lb 8 oz scale (barely). That's over a pound reduction per cylinder. 

New bobweight is 2281 grams for those keeping score. This sucker is going to zing.

Tomorrow I'll start with a thorough scrubbing of the block. Then I'll mock-up the bottom end and check clearances. If all checks out, I should be able to get the long block assembled.

The pile of parts in the last picture should just get smaller from this point forward. 

[69bronzeT5]

Good to hear that is coming along.

[Silver R/T]

good progress

[Charger-Bodie]

sounds fun , thats always a good time anticipating the first run on a new gine!

[471_Magnum]

Quick update.

Rotating assembly is installed. Stuck the cam in and installed the timing chain.

Later this evening I'll degree the cam.

Moving right along...

[TUFCAT]

I love reading your updates...and I learn a lot. Keep posting them. They're great! 

[471_Magnum]

Quick break.

Cam came in just right installed "dot to dot" (106 CL). The nine-way billet timing set seems like waste. LOL

Timing cover installed (don't forget the oil slinger). Oil pump installed. Oil pick-up installed.

Windage tray and pan are next. I forgot I needed to clean-up the used windage tray I bought. I'll do that, install the pan and probably call it a night.

I need to swing past the hardware store and pick-up some grade 8 washers tomorrow for the engine stand. I'm going to reinforce the mounting bolts before I install the heads. The grade 5s are starting to pucker.

[Rolling_Thunder]

keep it up man...    I just assembled a customer 440 myself these past 3 days and broke in the cam today on the run-up stand...     

[bull]

Are you going to balance the rotating assembly?

[471_Magnum]

Are you going to balance the rotating assembly?

Machine shop took care of the balancing.

[OttawaCharger]

 

[bull]

Are you going to balance the rotating assembly?

Machine shop took care of the balancing.

So they weighed everything? I'm interested in this because I'm wondering if doing a spin balance is better. I'm getting closer to doing something with my engine so I'm starting to have questions.

[471_Magnum]

Pretty much got the assembly done today. Still have to install the water pump and valve covers. Then it's time for paint.

Spent WAY too much time cleaning up the valve covers today. Cork gaskets and HiPo manifolds DO NOT MIX.  Damn things were crumbling, but glued on with Lord knows what. Still haven't gotten them completely clean.

I'm tempted to put the stock covers aside and install some chrome ones. Really not in the budget though.

So tomorrow I'll finish the assembly and start painting.

[471_Magnum]

Are you going to balance the rotating assembly?

Machine shop took care of the balancing.

So they weighed everything? I'm interested in this because I'm wondering if doing a spin balance is better. I'm getting closer to doing something with my engine so I'm starting to have questions.

Not sure what your getting at. Machine shop weighed the rods and pistons and equalized them (if necessary). Then the bobweight was calculated. Crank was spun balanced accordingly.

[Rolling_Thunder]

cork gaskets....      yuck!  I know all too well what you mean...     I'm lucky - I have a media blasting cabinet at work...    does a great job - otherwise it was a wire wheel on a bench grinder...       before that is was a razor blade and many cut fingers   

[firefighter3931]

Looking good Jim....allways fun to assemble a new bullet ! 



Ron

[bull]

Are you going to balance the rotating assembly?

Machine shop took care of the balancing.

So they weighed everything? I'm interested in this because I'm wondering if doing a spin balance is better. I'm getting closer to doing something with my engine so I'm starting to have questions.

Not sure what your getting at. Machine shop weighed the rods and pistons and equalized them (if necessary). Then the bobweight was calculated. Crank was spun balanced accordingly.

I thought they spun the crank, rods and pistons when they did a spin balance. What the heck do I know.

[chargerman68]

 

[bull]

By coincidence I just talked to an engine rebuilder here in town who explained the process, so now I'm informed.

[471_Magnum]

I've got an issue/concern with the timing set. Seems kind of tight and it isn't rolling quietly. Chain wants to climb up on the teeth of the crank sprocket. It's a standard length chain. Not sure what the issue is.

Been trying to get a hold of 440Source to discuss it.

Might have to get a different chain. That will cost me a couple of days.

[rav440]

471 , whats the deck height ? it looks like it was milled down about .060 or so . what heads are you running ?  keep the pics comming 

[471_Magnum]

Okay. I think I got the chain issue resolved. After turning the motor over repeatedly while squiring oil on the chain through the fuel pump hole, it still made noise. Pulled the cover and found the chain LOOSE!

Last night, I had a devil of a time getting it installed, like it was too tight. After installing it, the tension felt fine. Now tonight I find it loose.

Fortunately, since I had the block line hone I had ordered a 0.005" under sized chain, just in case.



So I installed the 5 under chain and the problem is fixed. Weird.

471 , whats the deck height ?  what heads are you running ? keep the pics comming

Those pistons are 2.067" CH, 12 cc dished. 452 heads milled to about 84-85 cc. Big valves. Gasket matched. Nothing fancy. ~9.3:1 CR. Just a pump gas friendly torque monster.

[471_Magnum]

Update time.

Didn't get much done last night since I didn't make it out to the garage until about 9:00.

Re-installed the timing cover. Installed the water pump. Finished cleaning the valve covers. That's about it.

Tonight I installed the valve covers, installed the fuel pump and got it all painted-up.  I left the exhaust manifolds off for paint. Not sure whether or not I want to do the overspray thing. This car will be driven, so the paint probably wouldn't hold-up very long anyway.

After the paint dried a bit, I pulled it off the stand and installed the bell housing to check the run-out. It checked out right at .007" TIR. Spec is .008" max. I'd like it to be a little better, but I won't sweat it at this point.

Plan for tomorrow is to paint the bell housing and clean-up all the clutch parts. I also need to touch-up a couple of scratches in the transmission tunnel.

Friday night I'll install the clutch and mate the engine and transmission.

Saturday the crew will come over and we'll stab it in and start reconnecting everything.

With a little luck, Sunday it should be ready to fire-up.

[471_Magnum]

The engine hoist anyway. 

Tomorrow morning, 9 AM, the crew comes over to help drop the motor in. 

I'll spend the rest of the day re-attaching, re-connecting, and re-installing everything. 

Maybe Sunday morning we'll get it started.

[Rolling_Thunder]

 

[Forza]

Congrats man, Im glad everything is finally done and hopefully that puppy fires up on the first try. Talk about a long, drawn out ordeal you went through. You'll forget it all when you get it on the highway, love those GTX's!

[71gtx]

is the tran 18 or 23     

[471_Magnum]

In the words of Carl the Greenskeeper.... IT"S IN THE HOLE!!!! 

Gearbox is a 23 spline. Future upgrade will be a 18 spline OD gearset from Passon Performance.

[Charger_Fan]

Man, that looks sweet!

BTW, I like the shipping wrap idea on your fenders, to keep grungy paw prints off.

[Charger-Bodie]

there are some real nice contrasts of colors in that gine compartment ...me likey me likey alot?/

[Mefirst]

-Damn, wish my hemi project/build would move on as fast as your engine build..

/Tom

[nakita7]

Nice...

[471_Magnum]

-Damn, wish my hemi project/build would move on as fast as your engine build.

Don't know if I'd consider eight weeks fast. Fortunately, once I got all my parts, the machine shop did turn it around quickly.

Anyway, about all there is left to do now it hook-up the clutch linkage, install radiator & shround, hook-up the exhaust, fill the fluids, prime it and install the ignition.... then let it rip.

[Ricardo]

Looking good and great job!

[Rolling_Thunder]

NICE!     Lookin Good man!     We just got the 440 running in that Road Runner I mentioned - it was a 9 week endeavor...    Machinist took the most time...          be sure to post some "smokie" pictures 

[Ghoste]

Good to hear Jim.  We've been waiting with baited breath up here.

[BrianShaughnessy]

-Damn, wish my hemi project/build would move on as fast as your engine build.

Don't know if I'd consider eight weeks fast. Fortunately, once I got all my parts, the machine shop did turn it around quickly.

After about 8 weeks or whatever,  my block has progressed to a location somewhat nearer the line boring machine.
That progress was this week.    The previous 7 weeks or so the progress was approximately NADADAMTHING. 
Your machine shop kicks ass.   

[471_Magnum]

Got it fired up and broke-in. Took a little more work than expected to get it started (always does).

Had a brain fart and overheated it a bit in during break in. I forgot to top off the radiator. About ten minutes in, I had to shut it down. Let it cool, filled it up, then started it again to finish the break-in. No harm, no foul.

Runs good. No leaks. Actually idles a lot smoother than I expected with the XE274H.

Anyway, I'm waiting for it to cool down so I can change the oil. Also need to make a clutch adjustment.

Then I'll get it out on the road and report back. Stay tuned.

[The70RT]

Cool. Sounds like you will be back on the road soon.

[471_Magnum]

Cool. Sounds like you will be back on the road soon.

Soon?!?! Is today soon enough? 

Went for a spin around the block. No motor issues, but the cluch linkage needs work. For some reason, the clutch pedal is not coming up all the way against the stop.

I also noticed the z-bar is contacting the exhaust pipe. Something has shifted around down there.

Need to let it cool off and get it back in the garage. 92 degrees here today... record high. Too damn hot to be leaning over a hot(ter) car.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Nice progress report Jim. 

[tan top]

good work 

[Ghoste]

WhoooHooo!!!! 

[NYCMille]

Congrats Jim! Sounds like it's coming along nicely.

[six-tee-nine]

We.....eeeehhhhhhm.........kinda jaleous here   

[Troy]

Too bad I missed it the last time. Maybe I can make one last little trip before cold weather sets in. 

Troy

[firefighter3931]

So which cam did you end up using ? Earlier in the thread you mentioned the xe274h then you mention the xe275hl ? If you did use the HL version did you trim the guides down for retainer clearance ?

Glad to hear it's up and running ! 



Ron

[471_Magnum]

XE274H

It actually idles a lot mellower than I expected. No problem maintaining a 800 rpm idle. I expected a bit more lope.

Still has OEM style exhaust though. Not like I'm running headers and 3" pipes.

I'll get the clutch issues resolved tomorrow, then I can wring it out a bit.

[70charger_boy]

WOW 

[Chatt69chgr]

Hey 471 Magnum-----Could you talk a little more about some facets of your engine design.  You said that you ended up with a 9.3:1 CR.  You are using 452's milled down to end up with 84-85cc chamber.  And the pistons had a CH of 2.067.   Did you have the block deck milled at all?  If so, how much was taken off and did you measure the resulting deck height?  Assuming a stock deck height of 10.72, your pistons should be sitting approx. 10 thousands in the hole (assuming std stroke).  What thickness head gasket are you running?  Was you block bored?  How much?  Where did you buy your pistons and what is the part number---you said they are 12cc dished----were they special order?  Are you running a standard stroke of 3.75 inches and using standard rod lengths of 6.768 inches.  I am curious because I don't see how you ended up with a 9.3:1 CR.  I was using the calculator at the following link:

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=deck

Sorry to barrage you with so many questions but I am trying to sort out my own engine build right now.  Thanks.

[471_Magnum]

Hey 471 Magnum-----Could you talk a little more about some facets of your engine design. You said that you ended up with a 9.3:1 CR. You are using 452's milled down to end up with 84-85cc chamber. And the pistons had a CH of 2.067. Did you have the block deck milled at all? If so, how much was taken off and did you measure the resulting deck height? Assuming a stock deck height of 10.72, your pistons should be sitting approx. 10 thousands in the hole (assuming std stroke). What thickness head gasket are you running? Was you block bored? How much? Where did you buy your pistons and what is the part number---you said they are 12cc dished----were they special order? Are you running a standard stroke of 3.75 inches and using standard rod lengths of 6.768 inches. I am curious because I don't see how you ended up with a 9.3:1 CR. I was using the calculator at the following link:

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=deck

Sorry to barrage you with so many questions but I am trying to sort out my own engine build right now. Thanks.

Heads are 452s milled to 85 cc (I checked them). Rods are 440 source H-beams (6.760"). Pistons are KB836 ($439 from Summit). Block has not been decked, but was line bored and taken 30-over. Head gaskets are Mopar Performance-sourced Fel Pro 1009s (9cc).

I didn't check the deck with a bridge since I knew these pistons would put me at about 9.35:1 at the highest. A quick check with a depth mic showed about 15 thou down.

So CR is probably somewhere between 9.2 and 9.3.

Got the clutch adjustment taken care of, fixed the exhaust pipe clearance and retorqued the oil pan bolts. Too late for a test drive though. I'll get it out tomorrow night, weather permitting.

[471_Magnum]

Got home tonight and installed the missing washer and clip.

Made another quick test loop, then stopped for a inspection. No apparent problems.

I then went for a 20 mile drive. Car runs great. I did a couple of moderate blasts, running it up to about 4500 rpm. Pulls very strong. 

I need to move the throttle cable to a different hole on the Holley, as it is a wee bit aggressive now. Hard to modulate the throttle and clutch for smooth shift. Easy fix.

Also see a slight oil drip around the oil pump. I'll retorque those bolts, and hopefully that will resolve that issue.

I think that pretty much closes the book on this motor build (knock on wood).

I'll log some more break in miles over the next couple of  weeks. Once I'm comfortable it's broken in, and I've installed a rev limiter, I'll really whale on it. 

[Charger-Bodie]

looking forward to seeing some rubber hangin from the 1/4 panels

[firefighter3931]

Excellent news Jim !  The xe274 appears to be a good match for your combo ! 



Ron