The Aluminum Heads from 440 Source

[Purple440]

Been there done that...I could just do it myself but it's a father/son project and I want it to stay that way.  I'm at a point where I can buy these parts myself no prob, but I don't want to alienate him.  Prolly too much info, but that's the scoop.    That's why I keep bugging you guys, I need feedback to pass on to him...he's internet challenged.

[firefighter3931]

Doug, the closed chamber alum head has several advantages over the open chamber iron head ;

(1) lighter weight
(2) closed chamber for better quench means more power and no detonation as long as the static compression is held in line
(3) increased flow throughout the lift range....a good fast rate cam with descent lift will make these heads really shine
(4) the cost is very attractive

Without getting too technical, the easiest way to look at it would be to compare the headflow at given points in the lift cycle. For example : the iron head flows 190 cfm at .300 lift and the alum head flows 240cfm at that same .300 valve lift....which head is making more power at that exact point in time. If there's a 50cfm spread in headflow across the board.....then the higher flowing head will make more power everywhere.....from valve opening to valve closing.


Cam profiles will have some impact on the final power numbers as well. The agressive profiles are designed to open the valve sooner and keep it open longer which allows for increased cylinder filling and results in more power & torque. That's another subject for another thread....but suffice it to say that a cam with agressive lobes will for the mostpart make more power than a cam with gentler lobes....all things being equal. This is why the Engle cams work so well....moderately agressive lobe profiles that perform extremely strong, even with a stock head.



Ron

[firefighter3931]

^^^  Hahaha... Tell dad the aluminum heads are much lighter, flow better and look killer when the hood gets lifted...

Geez, i went and typed out a long response and Steve said it all right here ! 

Just playin Buddy....it's all good ! 




Ron

[Purple440]

lol I appreciate both of your responses 

Sometimes I ask foolish questions but that's why I like this forum so much, because you guys are pretty descent and are willing to repeat your answers over the years even though it probably gets tiresome.

Trust me, I'd love a K58 e-head build and it would be done but it's not just my car.  But I am going Holley next spring...750 or 770 with vac sec.  No double pumper sry Ron.  But when I come back in 6 months and say you were right about the DP, just sit back and don't call me a fool...just nod and push me gently in the right direction 

[firefighter3931]

  But I am going Holley next spring...750 or 770 with vac sec.  No double pumper sry Ron.  But when I come back in 6 months and say you were right about the DP, just sit back and don't call me a fool...just nod and push me gently in the right direction 

Doug, promise me you will at least consider an HP series vacuum secondary carb. It'll save a lot of  when you start tuning...... 


Ron


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO%2D67205&N=700+4294925239+4294839063+4294919007+400405+4294902675+1051506943+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D0%2D80529%2D1&N=700+4294925239+4294839063+4294919007+400178+4294891681+4294902726+4294902675+4294902725+1051506943+115&autoview=sku

[Purple440]

Ron those don't have chokes.  I need a carb that has an electronic choke because it gets cold here in Minnesota 

The DP's have mechanical secondaries right...so as of yesterday my 440 is performing it's best ever with the heaviest spring in the vacuum pod.  I probably have issues with the valve train based on my vacuum readings and crappy idle, so it's not 100% but still....

Anyway, with a rapidly pulsating vacuum reading (and RPM) I've read that there is probably a bad lifter, pushrod, or rocker.  I'll be replacing all that this spring.  I just talked to my builder and he said we reused the old rockers and rods (off a '78 new yorker) , and did not put the rods back in the same cylinders  he even said that premature wear is likely happening.  When we started it up after installing the A&A converter, there was a LOUD clacking sound from the valvetrain, which is when he mentioned this. 

This is off topic but any feed back is great:)

[my73charger]

I bought this one from this seller on EBay and have had excellent luck.  Vaccuum secondary 750 with electric choke.  Good price. It is a remanufactured but the one I received looked brand new.  You would never know it was a remanufactured.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-Carburetor-750-CFM-elec-choke-Bright-as-New_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33550QQihZ015QQitemZ250170273909

[Silver R/T]

so I dont need to spend $800 on TTI headers anymore? With these heads I should be able to fit Super hooker headers on there fairly easy, right?

[70sixpkrt]

Correct.

[Steve P.]

so I dont need to spend $800 on TTI headers anymore? With these heads I should be able to fit Super hooker headers on there fairly easy, right?

Ummmm,  though they both deal with heads, I think you mean SUPER COMP, HOOKER HEADERS.. Ahh, NOT SUPER HOOKER........   

[Silver R/T]

either one is fine

[TUFCAT]

I just ordered a set of these new stealth heads. They're a screaming good deal at $895.  The guy on the phone said they're only taking pre-orders for February production, to be shipped in March.  All stock was SOLD OUT when the MCG article hit.

At least I'm guaranteed to get a set at the $895 introductory price. If you want a set, ORDER NOW (before the price goes up)

[mally69]

I ordered mine last night

[my73charger]

I just ordered a set of these new stealth heads. They're a screaming good deal at $895.  The guy on the phone said they're only taking pre-orders for February production, to be shipped in March.  All stock was SOLD OUT when the MCG article hit.

At least I'm guaranteed to get a set at the $895 introductory price. If you want a set, ORDER NOW (before the price goes up)

I took your advice Tufcat.  I just couldn't let that price get away.

[TUFCAT]

I know...its a REALLY GOOD DEAL!    ~~ I will probably have some closed chamber 915 heads for sale in March.

[deputycrawford]

Purple440, I have to tell you that I have a Race demon carb with no choke and start my car in mid 30 degree weather. As long as I keep my foot on the gas lightly for about 30 seconds, I can drive the car anywhere in cold weather. You only need a choke until it warms up. If its tuned right, It will warm up nicely. You will never have a problem with a carb without a choke. I have never used one with any of my old cars.

[kamkuda]

it does not appear to have the same flow numbers as an eddy head althought the eddy numbers are from edelbrocks site.
Stealth/Eddys
100 --- 65/79 --- 57/70
200 --- 135/143 --- 108/126
300 --- 191/207 --- 140/160
400 --- 227/256 --- 159/188
500 --- 242/278 --- 173/206
600 --- 254/291 --- 183/217
700 --- 261/292 --- 191/223

[Purple440]

Purple440, I have to tell you that I have a Race demon carb with no choke and start my car in mid 30 degree weather. As long as I keep my foot on the gas lightly for about 30 seconds, I can drive the car anywhere in cold weather. You only need a choke until it warms up. If its tuned right, It will warm up nicely. You will never have a problem with a carb without a choke. I have never used one with any of my old cars.

Deputy thanks I'll keep that in mind.  Actually the choke on my speed demon doesn't work right anyway so I have to keep my foot on the throttle anyway. 

[Chatt69chgr]

Would the Engle K56 cam be a good choice for use with the new 440 Source heads?  I want to build a 440-4sp std stroke quench engine---------zero deck setup, around 10.5:1CR, 750 cfm carb, CH4B intake, HP exhaust manifolds (repops from YO), and not intending to rev more than 6000rpm.  Idle doesn't have to be perfectly smooth but I want to be able to cruise around in the car and just have fun.  No drag racing on or off track---perhaps a little spirited red light fun but nothing dangerous.  I have ordered the Stealth heads (Feb delivery) and they come with valve springs installed.  Someone on here already said they would work OK with the K56 cam I think.  Also ordered the ROL gasket which 440Source said was compressed .039 and ARP head bolts at same time.  (hope this isn't hijacking the thread since all related directly to the new heads)

[firefighter3931]

Would the Engle K56 cam be a good choice for use with the new 440 Source heads?  I want to build a 440-4sp std stroke quench engine---------zero deck setup, around 10.5:1CR, 750 cfm carb, CH4B intake, HP exhaust manifolds (repops from YO), and not intending to rev more than 6000rpm.  Idle doesn't have to be perfectly smooth but I want to be able to cruise around in the car and just have fun.  No drag racing on or off track---perhaps a little spirited red light fun but nothing dangerous.  I have ordered the Stealth heads (Feb delivery) and they come with valve springs installed.  Someone on here already said they would work OK with the K56 cam I think.  Also ordered the ROL gasket which 440Source said was compressed .039 and ARP head bolts at same time.  (hope this isn't hijacking the thread since all related directly to the new heads)

Sure, those heads will work fine in that application. 

I would try to correct the gasket overhang issue though to avoid potential problems down the road. 



Ron

[SeattleCharger]

Would the Engle K56 cam be a good choice for use with the new 440 Source heads?  I want to build a 440-4sp std stroke quench engine---------zero deck setup, around 10.5:1CR, 750 cfm carb, CH4B intake, HP exhaust manifolds (repops from YO), and not intending to rev more than 6000rpm.  Idle doesn't have to be perfectly smooth but I want to be able to cruise around in the car and just have fun.  No drag racing on or off track---perhaps a little spirited red light fun but nothing dangerous.  I have ordered the Stealth heads (Feb delivery) and they come with valve springs installed.  Someone on here already said they would work OK with the K56 cam I think.  Also ordered the ROL gasket which 440Source said was compressed .039 and ARP head bolts at same time.  (hope this isn't hijacking the thread since all related directly to the new heads)

That's almost exactly the build I have been planning also, using these new aluminum heads, I bought a steel crank 72 engine and took the crank out for the block I already have,    I already have my CH4B, my HP exhaust manifolds, was going to use the engle K56 cam also,  note: firefighter was saying to get it ground for 112 degree lsa instead of 110? for use with hp manifolds to help match with them better.  and I was going to do the 10.5 compression, zero deck,   

[Chatt69chgr]

Hey Seattle--------are you planning on using the stock regular rods (not 6-pk) or aftermarket perhaps like 440Source offers?

[SeattleCharger]

Hey Seattle--------are you planning on using the stock regular rods (not 6-pk) or aftermarket perhaps like 440Source offers?

umm, I believe firefighter said that with that build you want to get some better rods and pistons, maybe was some mopar performance ones?, will try and find the thread, should have it saved in engine build document somewhere when I get back on my home computer, 

[Chatt69chgr]

I will probably buy aftermarket rods.  The pistons will, obviously, be aftermarket forged units to get the CR close.

I just talked to the guys at Engle Cams.  They said that on the K56, increasing the LSA to 112 degrees would help increase the vacuum, make engine idle a little better, and cause the power band to increase some.  Would have a little less "snap" at 112 than 110.

I told him that I was using a more or less stock intake and exhaust.  He said that since the exhaust was a little restricted (compared to headers) that I should think about a split grind.  Using a K56 intake grind and a K58 exhaust grind.  Said he would keep the LSA at 110 degrees.  Said this would help with the exhaust being restricted as it were.

I couldn't get much more out of them.  I don't mean to be critical but I just didn't sense that there was a lot of knowledge on this forthcoming.  The guy seemed to be just looking at the spec sheet.  I'am the one that suggested the split grind.  In the past, I called Comp Cams.  As I recall, they really seemed to know a lot about their cams.  I have not called them lately.  Mind you, I am a complete neophyte on this.  But in a book I read by Smokey Yunick, he said that on cams, you really have to depend heavily on the cam manufacturer since how a cam will work is somewhat empirical.  They are talking to guys all day long that run their cams and are trying different ones so they more or less come to know what works and what doesn't. 

Board members------------please give SeattleChargerDog and me your thoughts.  Thanks.

[Chatt69chgr]

bump!!