Re: Restoration of my B5 Blue 4Spd Charger 500... Blue Thunder debuts...Finally!

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Wow, that looks fantastic! Congrats Allen

Thanks Dave... You're up kinda late...    How's the rehab facility construction coming along?

Concentrating on rehabing my backlog, (turning P.O.s into invoices). I want to see concrete trucks in my back yard by late Jan, then, other things...  

Turning P.O.s into Invoices, then into dead presidents is definitely your best priority!  I have been gathering items in anticipation of the start of the Phoenix Project...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Interior pictures...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Engine bay & wheel well...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Taillight panel & trunk...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

The machine shop is nearly done with their work on Blue Thunder's replacement 440.  As it turns out, the 440 engine was not quite in "bolt the heads on & run 'er" condition described by the seller.  One of the rod bearings had begun to spin, so now the crank will be turned .010-.010.  Also, the cylinder walls would not completely clean up at .030, so the block will be bored .040... so Blue Thunder will have a 448.

There were some other issues and missing parts as well, but no show stoppers so far.  The main reason that I got this 440 was the Engine Assembly Date of 11-26-68 exactly matched the EAD of a Charger 500 with a VIN only 28 units later than mine (238099 vs. my 238071).  Another reason was that an even trade was worked out, so my only cash expenses were shipping of the trade parts and later the engine... about $330 total.

The following pics of the block in the machine shop were provided by Hemityme... Thanks! 

[C500]

Cool Allen, some great progress in the last couple of weeks. My car won't be too far behind yours.

Duncan

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Cool Allen, some great progress in the last couple of weeks. My car won't be too far behind yours.

Duncan

Thanks Duncan... but don't give up yet on passing Blue Thunder in the Resto Derby, several other DC.Com restoration projects have left me in the dust.    With the arrival of the AMD sheetmetal, your C500 is coming on strong! 

Allen

[C500]

Thanks Duncan... but don't give up yet on passing Blue Thunder in the Resto Derby, several other DC.Com restoration projects have left me in the dust.    With the arrival of the AMD sheetmetal, your C500 is coming on strong! 

Allen

I'm just enjoying seeing your pics right now! Keep up the progress, it's motivating to see.

I'm really greatful for AMD! Another 2-3 months and I'm hoping to be driving.

Duncan

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Thanks Duncan... but don't give up yet on passing Blue Thunder in the Resto Derby, several other DC.Com restoration projects have left me in the dust.    With the arrival of the AMD sheetmetal, your C500 is coming on strong! 

Allen

I'm just enjoying seeing your pics right now! Keep up the progress, it's motivating to see.

I'm really greatful for AMD! Another 2-3 months and I'm hoping to be driving.

Duncan

Well, there is no way mine will be driven anywhere in the next 2-3 months... might be back on "all fours" around that time... maybe.

After all that this project has gone through, just seeing clear progress is great!  I am not even going to have a specific goal of when to have it complete... still a long way to go.  I am working on another list of needed parts to haul over to the shop in Arkansas...

• Front & Rear Seats
• Front & Rear Bumpers with brackets
• Recall Wheels & Tires
• Power Brake components
• Spare Tire, Jack, Etc.
• Windshield
• Misc NOS parts like exhaust tips, Headlight Bezels, Heat Riser rebuild kit, Etc.
• Misc engine bay components & accessories like W/Wiper Motor, drivers side exhaust manifold, Etc.

There are many other small items still needed.  There are also some items to purchase such as exhaust system, battery, belts/hoses, windshield gasket, repro taillight lenses & chrome trim, repro upper door pads, Etc. 

[moparstuart]

The machine shop is nearly done with their work on Blue Thunder's replacement 440.  As it turns out, the 440 engine was not quite in "bolt the heads on & run 'er" condition described by the seller.  One of the rod bearings had begun to spin, so now the crank will be turned .010-.010.  Also, the cylinder walls would not completely clean up at .030, so the block will be bored .040... so Blue Thunder will have a 448.

There were some other issues and missing parts as well, but no show stoppers so far.  The main reason that I got this 440 was the Engine Assembly Date of 11-26-68 exactly matched the EAD of a Charger 500 with a VIN only 28 units later than mine (238099 vs. my 238071).  Another reason was that an even trade was worked out, so my only cash expenses were shipping of the trade parts and later the engine... about $330 total.

The following pics of the block in the machine shop were provided by Hemityme... Thanks! 

bummer I was hoping it would be in nice shape like he said ?  It did spin really easy . 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

The machine shop is nearly done with their work on Blue Thunder's replacement 440.  As it turns out, the 440 engine was not quite in "bolt the heads on & run 'er" condition described by the seller.  One of the rod bearings had begun to spin, so now the crank will be turned .010-.010.  Also, the cylinder walls would not completely clean up at .030, so the block will be bored .040... so Blue Thunder will have a 448.

There were some other issues and missing parts as well, but no show stoppers so far.  The main reason that I got this 440 was the Engine Assembly Date of 11-26-68 exactly matched the EAD of a Charger 500 with a VIN only 28 units later than mine (238099 vs. my 238071).  Another reason was that an even trade was worked out, so my only cash expenses were shipping of the trade parts and later the engine... about $330 total.

The following pics of the block in the machine shop were provided by Hemityme... Thanks! 

bummer I was hoping it would be in nice shape like he said ?  It did spin really easy . 

There was certainly no way for you to detect the problems on a non-running engine... he may not even have known.  I am a little less understanding about some of the parts that turned up missing AFTER I shipped the trade parts and arranged to have you pick up the engine.  He managed to misplace the head bolts, rocker shaft assemblies, pushrods, Etc and discover that the drivers side exhaust manifold was "a later model of no use".

Stuart, you did exactly what I wanted you to... Thanks again!

[Charger-Bodie]

It is really nice to see this car heading nicely in the right direction. You really are a class act and it really sucks to see good people treated badly. You didn't let it stop you though,you powered through and you will have a great 500 when its all said and done.  To you Allen !

[moparstuart]

It is really nice to see this car heading nicely in the right direction. You really are a class act and it really sucks to see good people treated badly. You didn't let it stop you though,you powered through and you will have a great 500 when its all said and done.  To you Allen !

[C500]

Well, there is no way mine will be driven anywhere in the next 2-3 months... might be back on "all fours" around that time... maybe.

It will certainly be worth the wait. 

[pettybird]

Engine question:  Were they cast and assembled in the same plant or no?  Why is there a 2-4 week lead time between the two dates?  My B5 bird motor was around a month and a half in between.  If there was shipping involved I can see it, but I know that a bunch of Chevy motors I've seen have a lot tighter windows. 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

It is really nice to see this car heading nicely in the right direction. You really are a class act and it really sucks to see good people treated badly. You didn't let it stop you though,you powered through and you will have a great 500 when its all said and done.  To you Allen !

Thanks Brian... Its not only the bad seeds that come out during a project like this, a lot of great people are helping me too.  The experience at the first shop was a surprise (especially the extent of it), as were two guys that I have known for over 25 years that tried to develop what they apparently saw as an opportunity to deal me out of a car by having a block with an EAD that was relatively close to the range that I was looking for.

I have made mistakes too during this project, but thanks for the kind words.

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Engine question:  Were they cast and assembled in the same plant or no?  Why is there a 2-4 week lead time between the two dates?  My B5 bird motor was around a month and a half in between.  If there was shipping involved I can see it, but I know that a bunch of Chevy motors I've seen have a lot tighter windows.  

I am not sure if the casting/machining/assembly was at a single location or not.  I have always assumed that the casting was at a separate facility, but I am not at all certain.  The time span between casting and assembly varies greatly, but 4 weeks seem to be fairly common in late 1968 & early 1969.  I have seen as little as 1 week, and over 3 months during that time period (late 1960s).

Attached is a chart that show some of the variation that is typical.

Also Doug, it would be interesting to know the casting date on Rick's 238099 engine block... give him a call!  

Maybe someone with more insight in the subject will chime in...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

The engine for Blue Thunder is basically complete, lacking only the replacement oil pan and various engine accessories (water pump, fuel pump, etc.  The correct 4617S Carter AVS is being restored by Scott Smith/Harms Auto...

Ken said that he told the engine builder that I like pictures...   

So here courtesy of the engine builder & Ken are some "in work" pictures...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

And some "almost finished" pictures...

[tan top]

looking  good !!    keep the pictures coming      

[b5blue]

Like the Tin Man getting a heart! 

[moparstuart]

one more step closer   

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Work is progressing on various components for Blue Thunder.  Finishing touches are being put on the engine, and the 18 Spline "Hemi" 4 Speed transmission is at a rebuilder for a check-out and re-sealing.  So far the only problem found on the transmission was a cracked input shaft bearing retainer... a replacement is being ordered.  Suspension components and the K-Frame were sent to the powder coating company and should be back soon.

On another topic, I have resumed researching the early history of the C500 after finding out the Charger 500 was originally shipped to Ed Krueger Motors in Monett, Missouri for sale as a new car.  For about the last 15 months I have known the C500 was sold as a used car in 1971 at a Dodge or Chrysler-Plymouth dealer in Monett, but had assumed that in the two years it had probably relocated from the area originally selling the car.

The information from Galen Govier from his Charger 500 shipment list has made me decide to further research those first two years, with the goals of finding the original buyer and info/pictures on the selling dealer and hopefully the C500 as well.  Another far less likely outcome would be locating the numbers matching block which apparently disappeared during those two years... slim chances, but gotta try!

If anyone has any info on the Ed Krueger Motors dealership, or know someone in the Monett area that might have information, please let me know...  Email me at: xs29j8@charter.net

Allen

[hemi68charger]

Work is progressing on various components for Blue Thunder.  Finishing touches are being put on the engine, and the 18 Spline "Hemi" 4 Speed transmission is at a rebuilder for a check-out and re-sealing.  So far the only problem found on the transmission was a cracked input shaft bearing retainer... a replacement is being ordered.  Suspension components and the K-Frame were sent to the powder coating company and should be back soon.

...
Allen

Allen, those powder coated components are going to look sweet !!!!

[learical1]

If anyone has any info on the Ed Krueger Motors dealership, or know someone in the Monett area that might have information, please let me know...  Email me at: xs29j8@charter.net

Allen

Freddy's brother?  Was the dealership in Elm Street?