daytona for sale

[65post]

http://www.cars-on-line.com/30652.html

[hemigeno]

414635 is on the block yet again...   

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,903.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,9467.0/all.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10281.0.html

[pettybird]

ouch.  I remember the car at the pigeon forge TN winged warriors meet, where the guy who restored it said he wasn't wanting to sell for a long time.  it was for sale within a year...



does it have a rear defroster?  i'm pissed i got caught up in handing out bogus "everyone knows" information and now i want the truth. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Dave Nicholson owned that car previously correct?

[BigBlockSam]

 

[UFO]

Dash alone pic is 414635.No rear defogger switch.Next pic is another Canadian car also no switch.

[moparstuart]

  i know this car well.     Jim cordell here in kc my buddy owned and restrored it.   It was the last of the three famous basket cases out of canada .  Worst of the three and took alot to get it to that condition.  Their statements about the vins in that add scare me .     

[hemi68charger]

Yummy.........

That interior looks like my Dana, saddle tan 4-speed console............ Sweet !!!!

[nascarxx29]

I got some interior shots that might show a rear defroster switch . And more pictures of this daytona that was in Canada when the guy Gilles was selling it for $10K.And car is now in Ohio

http://mapleleafmopars.homestead.com/carsinbarns25.html

[pettybird]

that's ours!


414641, and yes it has a defroster.  f8/black, 440 console auto, ps/pdb, and not much else is known.  no fender tag, no bcast sheet.  options listed are the pretty obvious ones.  it has tinted glass in it, but the doors don't belong to the car.  also has a plain non-8 track dash, no tach.  after green, it was painted eb5, fc7 then fm3.  the quarters shown were the second set (by welding marks.)  the story goes that the car's sheetmetal went on a T5 hemi car, which fits as most of the sheetmetal on the car now is that color.  car has a '71 warranty non-hp short block, but has all date correct stuff on top (heads, intake, carb, dist, etc) so it was a warranty issue.  trans is a '71 used trans out of a st louis plant car.  8 3/4 rear has an open diff, so lord knows whether or not it had anything exciting in it.  i didn't bother to check ratio, but i'm assuming something dull like 2.76 or 3.23 with someone stealing the pumpkin.  the car would take a tremendous amount of work to put back on the street, so we're nonchalantly looking for a b-body shell and parts.  truthfully, a restoration of the body looked hopeless until recently with the emergence of repro sheetmetal--we own the marty robbins clone as well, and the two would become one.  now we're not so sure.  the floors and t-bar mount area are ok, the framerails are shot.  it's a real project, but i'd really like to see what could be done with it.


i would LOVE to know where to look for more information on this car!


i'm also looking for delivery/order # information on the car--who has the sheets for CDN cars?

[hemigeno]

414641 was listed as shipping to Trans Island Motors in Montreal, Quebec.  The SO number is 926315 according to the shipment list, and the build date is 610 for all but one of the Canadian-built cars...

That is one car I did not have on my list, so any information you can give me about what options would have been on the fender tag would be of immense help.  If we can get enough details, I'll bet we can create exactly what your fender tag would have read...

[FJMG]

    610BX926315, Trans Island motors ltd. Montreal, Que. Hope this helps.  T5 hemi car??? wow!!
Make sure you join the two aero clubs.

[hemigeno]

Oh, and it's #165 on the Shipment list too...

A couple of questions:

If you think the car had an 8-3/4" rear axle and the original transmission is gone (so we can't check the speedometer gear), perhaps the only indicator of what gear ratio the car had in it (3.23 or 3.55) would be whether the Power Steering pump had an external cooler.  If it had the cooler, then it would have had a 3.55 cog set.  I am still hoping to find a 3.23 Daytona one of these days, as I am curious to see if it would have had a 22" radiator yoke.  I can't find anything that says for certain that one couldn't have been made with a 3.23 & 22" radiator, and there are C500s that were equipped in that manner (right, PT?)

Did it have a manual mirror or remote?

2-speed or 3-speed wipers?

Black stripe, black interior?

Can you tell if it had the light group (turn signals, trunk light wire harness, map light, etc.)?  For whatever reason, it seems a whole lot of Daytonas - especially Canadian cars - came with the light group.

From what you are saying, the car had G11 all tinted glass rather than just the G15 tinted windshield, correct?  Your rear seat roll-down windows might be your best clue if the doors aren't original to the car.

No M25 sill mouldings evident, were they? 

[65post]

Drop Nigel a line.He may have some info on your car.Here is the link to his site......http://www.nationalmoparts.com/merchant.ihtml?id=3913&step=2

[nascarxx29]

More pictures of the former Canada daytona 414641

[pettybird]

    610BX926315, Trans Island motors ltd. Montreal, Que. Hope this helps.  T5 hemi car??? wow!!
Make sure you join the two aero clubs.

T5 hemi car isn't ours--that is a neat combo.  at least three exist to my knowledge IF the sheetmetal on my car was truly from a hemi car...


mom and dad joined both clubs before my first birthday 

[pettybird]

WOW list! 



If you think the car had an 8-3/4" rear axle and the original transmission is gone (so we can't check the speedometer gear), perhaps the only indicator of what gear ratio the car had in it (3.23 or 3.55) would be whether the Power Steering pump had an external cooler.  If it had the cooler, then it would have had a 3.55 cog set.
It does.  could have also been a super track pack car, too, right?  it has disc brakes.  how can i rule that out?



I am still hoping to find a 3.23 Daytona one of these days, as I am curious to see if it would have had a 22" radiator yoke. 

wasn't max cool standard on daytonas?  i know birds a LOT better...


Did it have a manual mirror or remote?
doors have been changed...don't know.  currently has remote, will again.  i don't like manual mirrors.


2-speed or 3-speed wipers?
two, motor and switch in the dash match


Black stripe, black interior?
interior is black.  haven't pulled the pass. side marker housing, but i'm assuming there's no evidence left of the stripe through three full repaints.  it'll be white, though.  black stripe on F8 looks too dark.



Can you tell if it had the light group (turn signals, trunk light wire harness, map light, etc.)?  For whatever reason, it seems a whole lot of Daytonas - especially Canadian cars - came with the light group.

light group yes.  i thought it was odd that it didn't have 3 speed wipers, so it didn't get the charger preferred pack 1

From what you are saying, the car had G11 all tinted glass rather than just the G15 tinted windshield, correct?  Your rear seat roll-down windows might be your best clue if the doors aren't original to the car.

i'll check again tomorrow.

No M25 sill moldings evident, were they? 

what do they look like???




thanks a LOT for the questions!  it helps me to have others lay eyes on it, too!

[pettybird]

414641 was listed as shipping to Trans Island Motors in Montreal, Quebec.  The SO number is 926315 according to the shipment list, and the build date is 610 for all but one of the Canadian-built cars...

That is one car I did not have on my list, so any information you can give me about what options would have been on the fender tag would be of immense help.  If we can get enough details, I'll bet we can create exactly what your fender tag would have read...

do you have the same list that joe machado has, or do you have the one sue and ed george have?  ed told me the info I got from machado is wrong...  what's with that?

[nascarxx29]

The first daytona shipment list that Greg K turned up only to had #385 daytonas listed where you sent in your vin tracing.It was later that Anthony Young writer of mighty mopars.Which way back mentioned where the first and last daytona were shipped to.Supplied winged warriors with a siimilar list listing # 501 daytonas.I couldnt say where Joe got his info from.Your car is #165 on the list of near 50 daytonas shipped to Canada.
     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did a while ago was daytona per state totals from info on the daytona ship list
69 Daytona list per state totals going from the current standing list number to date #501 cars from pages supplied in my club newsletter that shows the new car shipments for 69 daytonas and locations shipped to Including serial numbers and dealer number and dealer location. Also shows what states did and did not recieve a 69 daytona .Starting with the 440s AL-11 AZ-5 AR-2 CANADA 45 CA-38 CO-12 CON-2 DE-1 FL-16 GA-16 HAWAII-2 ID-1 IL-22 IN-21 IA-3 KAN-7 KEN-5 LOU-7 ME-1 MD-2 MASS-5 MI-26 MINN-3 MISS-1 MO-21 MONT-1 NEB-4 NV-2 NH-2 NJ-6 NY-26 NC-13 NDKT-1 SDKT-4.OH-25 OK-9 ORE-7 PA-23 RI-3 SC-4 TN-5 TX-20 UT-1 VT-1 VA-13 WA ST-7 WA-DC-2 W VA-1 WI-9-The 426 states AZ-1 CANADA-5 CA-7 CO-3 GA-1 IL-1 IN-1 KAN-1 MD-1 MI-2 MO-1 NY-1 NC-1 OH-3 PA-1 SC-1 TX-3 WVA-1 WI-1 .Total #501 465- 440 Hemi-36 for the 47 states 1 line was unreadable unknown state. 2 cars were 440 dodge exec cars with no dealer location in house cars and figured in with the MI total.Only #3 states didnt recieve 69 Daytona on this current list Alaska-New Mexico-Wyoming .

.

[FJMG]

    Supposedly all Dana-equiped cars had the larger half-round axle bumper and the 8.75 cars recieved the pointed one. Having said that, I have seen an original one owner dana-equiped car that has the pointed bumper so I do not know how accurate this is.
    When you pull the side marker, remnants of the original stripe may still be stuck to the inside of the 1/4 panel and if you carefully sand the bezel the layers of previous paints may be revealed. The first layer should be primer, the second body color (due to stripe delete) and the third stripe color, unless of course your bezel came from a car whose body matched the stripe, in which case the second layer is the stripe color.
    Factory disk cars came with 10" drums in the rear.
    If you carefully remove the undercoating(assuming your car has it?)  from the firewall directly behind the pass. front wheel, do notice any markings?

[hemigeno]

WOW list! 

If you think the car had an 8-3/4" rear axle and the original transmission is gone (so we can't check the speedometer gear), perhaps the only indicator of what gear ratio the car had in it (3.23 or 3.55) would be whether the Power Steering pump had an external cooler.  If it had the cooler, then it would have had a 3.55 cog set.
It does.  could have also been a super track pack car, too, right?  it has disc brakes.  how can i rule that out?

Yep, STPak was an option, and you're absolutely right that it would have had PDB's if that was the case.  There are quite a few A36 Daytonas with PDB's too, so that isn't an ironclad indicator.  If you can measure the brake line leading to the rear axle, that would probably be your best indicator since the flex hose for an 8-3/4" is different than for a Dana.  It's doubtful that someone changing out the axle would have also changed out that supply line.  The tee up by the brake booster is supposedly different on a Dana car than any other, but I don't know for certain if there is a part number stamped on it (never looked).  The P/N for that Dana-only tee is 1940622. 

There's still a possibility that the driveshaft length could tell you what was in the car.  A Dana car's driveshaft is about 1" shorter than a car with an 8-3/4" axle.  AFAIK they would bolt up with one another, with the difference in shaft length being taken up by how much the slipyoke went onto the transmission output shaft.  If the driveshaft from your car is about 51" center-to-center of the U-joint, that's a Dana axle propshaft - might mean the car had a Dana at one time.

Someone else might also have an idea of other clues to look for on that subject.

I am still hoping to find a 3.23 Daytona one of these days, as I am curious to see if it would have had a 22" radiator yoke. 

wasn't max cool standard on daytonas?  i know birds a LOT better...

Boy, you'd think so, but I have not found anything in writing yet that states such.  There was a Medium Cooling package that was definitely used on Daytonas, since that's what my 440 4-speed car has (055 2-core radiator).  We've kicked around which axle/transmission options required which cooling package in general on this thread.  Since there doesn't seem to be a mandated cooling package for the Daytonas like there was for the 'Birds, I have been wondering if a 440/727/3.23 Daytona would have come with a 22" radiator.  There are a few '69 Charger500s equipped this way, so my curiosity has been piqued to see if there are Daytonas as well.  With the "recommended" use of only 3.55 or 4.10 axle packages on automatic cars, I am wondering if very many (any?) 3.23 examples were built.

Did it have a manual mirror or remote?
doors have been changed...don't know.  currently has remote, will again.  i don't like manual mirrors.

D'Oh!  You had said the doors were changed, should have known that'd change the mirror too...

2-speed or 3-speed wipers?
two, motor and switch in the dash match

Black stripe, black interior?
interior is black.  haven't pulled the pass. side marker housing, but i'm assuming there's no evidence left of the stripe through three full repaints.  it'll be white, though.  black stripe on F8 looks too dark.

Still might be worth a look just in case.  Then again, since the Fender Tags don't spell out the stripe color, you have more freedom to do what you want.  My wife is lobbying for a white stripe/wing on my Daytona in lieu of the black it came with, but I'm too stubborn I guess. 

F8/Black/Black was the factory color combo on my R/T, and it is definitely dark.

Can you tell if it had the light group (turn signals, trunk light wire harness, map light, etc.)?  For whatever reason, it seems a whole lot of Daytonas - especially Canadian cars - came with the light group.

light group yes.  i thought it was odd that it didn't have 3 speed wipers, so it didn't get the charger preferred pack 1

I've wondered if Chrysler was responsible for adding a few option packages to these cars, since there seems to be an awful lot of Daytonas with A01, G15 or G11, and things like that. 

From what you are saying, the car had G11 all tinted glass rather than just the G15 tinted windshield, correct?  Your rear seat roll-down windows might be your best clue if the doors aren't original to the car.

i'll check again tomorrow.

No M25 sill moldings evident, were they? 

what do they look like???

Those were the long anodized mouldings that ran along the rocker panels below the door.  Not too many cars had them, but you can usually see the holes where the anchors were if the mouldings used to be there.

thanks a LOT for the questions!  it helps me to have others lay eyes on it, too!

 

[hemigeno]

    Supposedly all Dana-equiped cars had the larger half-round axle bumper and the 8.75 cars recieved the pointed one. Having said that, I have seen an original one owner dana-equiped car that has the pointed bumper so I do not know how accurate this is.

Forgot about that one! 

I asked Vance Cummins if he had ever seen the larger axle bumpers on a non-Dana car, and he said he had NEVER seen them on anything but a Dana car and that includes his years of scouring junkyards since the mid '70s looking for details just like that.  Vance obviously has not seen every car Chrysler ever made, and as we know almost anything is possible with MaMopar.  FJMG is right though, that is probably one of the best indicators to look for.

[pettybird]

i also forgot there's a single point distributor in the motor--i'll look to see if it's the right one, but that would kill super track pack right there...

[PocketThunder]

  I can't find anything that says for certain that one couldn't have been made with a 3.23 & 22" radiator, and there are C500s that were equipped in that manner (right, PT?)

[hemigeno]

i also forgot there's a single point distributor in the motor--i'll look to see if it's the right one, but that would kill super track pack right there...

Your comment on that point got me to thinking, so I dug out the '69 Data Book, and here's the description they gave:

Super Performance Axle Package
Code A32
(Available with 440 or Hemi w/ TorqueFlite.  N.A. w/AC)
4.10 w/H.D. 9-3/4" Dana Axle
Sure-Grip Differential
7-Blade Torque Drive Fan (Std. Hemi)
26" High Perf. Radiator w/Fan Shroud (Std. Hemi)
Power Disc Brakes

I know on the A33 and A34 options (Manual Transmission Only) they both mention having the dual-point distributor, so it is my assumption that they would have listed any option change in the distributor selection for Sales Code A32 also.  The parts book lists the distributor for a 440HP w/727 as 2875758 which is a single point.  It was always my assumption that all 440-4/auto cars had the single pointers but I could definitely be wrong on that.

[65post]

The first daytona shipment list that Greg K turned up only to had #385 daytonas listed where you sent in your vin tracing.It was later that Anthony Young writer of mighty mopars.Which way back mentioned where the first and last daytona were shipped to.Supplied winged warriors with a siimilar list listing # 501 daytonas.I couldnt say where Joe got his info from.Your car is #165 on the list of near 50 daytonas shipped to Canada.
     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did a while ago was daytona per state totals from info on the daytona ship list
69 Daytona list per state totals going from the current standing list number to date #501 cars from pages supplied in my club newsletter that shows the new car shipments for 69 daytonas and locations shipped to Including serial numbers and dealer number and dealer location. Also shows what states did and did not recieve a 69 daytona .Starting with the 440s AL-11 AZ-5 AR-2 CANADA 45 CA-38 CO-12 CON-2 DE-1 FL-16 GA-16 HAWAII-2 ID-1 IL-22 IN-21 IA-3 KAN-7 KEN-5 LOU-7 ME-1 MD-2 MASS-5 MI-26 MINN-3 MISS-1 MO-21 MONT-1 NEB-4 NV-2 NH-2 NJ-6 NY-26 NC-13 NDKT-1 SDKT-4.OH-25 OK-9 ORE-7 PA-23 RI-3 SC-4 TN-5 TX-20 UT-1 VT-1 VA-13 WA ST-7 WA-DC-2 W VA-1 WI-9-The 426 states AZ-1 CANADA-5 CA-7 CO-3 GA-1 IL-1 IN-1 KAN-1 MD-1 MI-2 MO-1 NY-1 NC-1 OH-3 PA-1 SC-1 TX-3 WVA-1 WI-1 .Total #501 465- 440 Hemi-36 for the 47 states 1 line was unreadable unknown state. 2 cars were 440 dodge exec cars with no dealer location in house cars and figured in with the MI total.Only #3 states didnt recieve 69 Daytona on this current list Alaska-New Mexico-Wyoming .

.

Any chance of getting all the  vins - shipping #s of all the daytonas that were shipped to Quebec?? Thanks Terry

[FJMG]

T5 hemi car isn't ours--that is a neat combo. at least three exist to my knowledge IF the sheetmetal on my car was truly from a hemi car...


mom and dad joined both clubs before my first birthday

Are you saying that some of the sheetmetal on your car is from a T5 Hemi daytona?? Front end?? doors??

[hemigeno]

Any chance of getting all the  vins - shipping #s of all the daytonas that were shipped to Quebec?? Thanks Terry

Sure Terry, here they are (sorted by shipping number):

25     XX29L9B414646  A & L Robert, Inc.     Montreal             Que.   610BX926321
122   XX29J9B414638  Savaria ET Fillis        St. Jerome          Que.   610BX926312
164   XX29L9B414637  Drummond Auto       Drummondville    Que.   610BX926183
165   XX29L9B414641  Trans Island Motors  Montreal             Que.   610BX926315
166   XX29L9B414644  Trois Rivieres          Trois Rivieres       Que.   610BX926318
167   XX29L9B414645  Lucerne Auto           Candiac               Que.   610BX926319
205   XX29L9B423239  Vincent Forgues       Pointe Trembles   Que.   610BX926320
258   XX29L9B414640  Garage Rosemont    Montreal              Que.   610BX926314
317   XX29L9B414647  Ruest & Arsenault     Rimouski             Que.   610BX926322
394   XX29L9B414635  Babin Auto Ltd.         Montreal             Que.   610BX926181
397   XX29J9B414639  Robt. Bedard Auto Ltd  Mont Laurier     Que.   610BX926313
398   XX29L9B414648  Beupre Auto             L'Ange Gardien    Que.   610BX926323



Sorry for the formatting/layout on that list - the forum software doesn't like cuts/pastes from Excel Spreadsheets...  The first number is the shipping # from the Dealer Shipping List (of 503), and the last number is the combined SPD and S.O. number.

[65post]

Thanks hemigeno.

[65post]

that's ours!


414641, and yes it has a defroster.  f8/black, 440 console auto, ps/pdb, and not much else is known.  no fender tag, no bcast sheet.  options listed are the pretty obvious ones.  it has tinted glass in it, but the doors don't belong to the car.  also has a plain non-8 track dash, no tach.  after green, it was painted eb5, fc7 then fm3.  the quarters shown were the second set (by welding marks.)  the story goes that the car's sheetmetal went on a T5 hemi car, which fits as most of the sheetmetal on the car now is that color.  car has a '71 warranty non-hp short block, but has all date correct stuff on top (heads, intake, carb, dist, etc) so it was a warranty issue.  trans is a '71 used trans out of a st louis plant car.  8 3/4 rear has an open diff, so lord knows whether or not it had anything exciting in it.  i didn't bother to check ratio, but i'm assuming something dull like 2.76 or 3.23 with someone stealing the pumpkin.  the car would take a tremendous amount of work to put back on the street, so we're nonchalantly looking for a b-body shell and parts.  truthfully, a restoration of the body looked hopeless until recently with the emergence of repro sheetmetal--we own the marty robbins clone as well, and the two would become one.  now we're not so sure.  the floors and t-bar mount area are ok, the framerails are shot.  it's a real project, but i'd really like to see what could be done with it.


i would LOVE to know where to look for more information on this car!


i'm also looking for delivery/order # information on the car--who has the sheets for CDN cars?

[65post]

Another pic of 414641 from an autotrader here in Quebec in the 80s.Terry

[moparstuart]

 pettybird will be happy to see that one

[UFO]

Close to bottom of page,it says one of the axle pkgs were required.All of those pkgs had a 26" rad.So if I'm reading it right,the combo of 440/auto/3.23 was not available.
Isn't it wonderful trying to figure how something was built in low numbers thirty+ years ago!

[hemigeno]

Chrysler was real good at talking out of both sides of their mouth, weren't they?  I don't know if it's possible to say for certain whether a car could or could not have been built without a Performance Axle Package (i.e. built with 3.23 or numerically lower gears), but I do know that it was not encouraged and may not have been "supposed" to happen.  A few of the pre-production documents do tend to contradict one another on finer points like this.  So far I still have not seen a Daytona with a 22" and/or without a Performance Axle Package coded on the Fender Tag, and I have +/-100 cars' full tag info and partials on a lot more. 

According to the following thread there was at least one car built that way:

What is Missing From this Daytona?

If such a car does exist, it'd be a rare one for sure.  The document I have relied most on for thinking such an animal was at least possible is this one, where it only says a Perf.AxlePkg was "recommended":

[UFO]

Thats a interesting photo on that link.(Road test mag eng shot)
At first I was thinking they used a 440 pic from another vehicle,one 440 looks like another right.Clearly visible is the fender scoop,how about the BOLTED latch tray(not welded to rad support).

[nascarxx29]

This one

[UFO]

Yup Thats the one.I guess until they are all found(good luck)there will always be questions.

[FJMG]

how about the BOLTED latch tray(not welded to rad support).

Almost looks like it is bolted from the bottom too.

[nascarxx29]

The dealer in the magazine showed to be La Hambra dodge by back ground pictures showing license plates frames on car .But if we were to go through the #501 daytona shipment complete with dealers names.I dont think it shows them as recieving a daytona

[pettybird]

Another pic of 414641 from an autotrader here in Quebec in the 80s.Terry

HOLY CRAP!!!


wow it looked terrible then, too!


ok so is there a contact number, or an original document, or a high res scan available of that???  that's WAY too cool!  THANK YOU!!!

[nascarxx29]

Car 414641 was Daniel Brissons or something like that.Dave at mapleleaf mopar in Canada knows all the wingcars in Canada.

[FJMG]

Car 414641 was Daniel Brissons or something like that.Dave at mapleleaf mopar in Canada knows all the wingcars in Canada.

    I wonder if Daniel knows anything about the sheetmetal exchange on 414641?

[pettybird]

all t5 sheetmetal on the car is bogus anyway.  it was converted to daytona stuff (really, really badly.)


how would I get in touch with David?

how long did daniel own the car?